Test booster/AIs/etc. on a cut

[ma70]

As someone who's always been skeptical of test boosters, and the purpose of reducing estrogen etc. I have to ask if there is any specific reason people like taking this stuff on a cut? Is there anything synergistic of taking either of these (or both of them if they're combined into one supplement) while on a caloric deficit? For more clarity, would this benefit someone with normal test levels/of young age?

 

[GeekPoop]

usually people over train / under eat when they're trying to lose bf / weight. Test will lower and cortisol will raise, hence why some people use test booster or other drugs to help diet.

 

[aaronuconn]

There's certainly a benefit to hormonal optimization for any goal, however what you're getting out of something that is OTC may not live up to your expectations.

 

[DJBeanPole]

There's certainly a benefit to hormonal optimization for any goal, however what you're getting out of something that is OTC may not live up to your expectations.

+1

Potential reduction in water weight, if any, comes to mind as a benefit. But as aaron said the efficacy of OTC is questionable.

 

[nicksox15]

They can definitely be beneficial, specifically in retaining strength and muscle mass while cutting. And as Beanpole said, the water weight reduction is a big one from armistane. I've been running alphamax, our test booster with an AI in it while on a cut with Alphamine with great results. I'm 31 though and the test boosting effects are more prevelant the older you get.

 

[Young Gotti]

good information in here....i also like test boosters for the extra aggression they may give me when calories are reduced

some of my favorites are testopro,tropinol xp, and bulbine

 

[snagencyV2.0]

as Beanpole said, the water weight reduction is a big one from Aromasin. I've been running alphamax, our test booster with an AI in it while on a cut with Alphamine with great results. I'm 31 though and the test boosting effects are more prevelant the older you get.

I assume you are referring to arimistane, not aromasin
aromasin is a drug, not an otc product, and shouldn't be an ingredient in any product you guys make
or -- is that a Freudian slip on a Performax secret ingredient?
enquiring minds want to know

 

[nicksox15]

I assume you are referring to arimistane, not aromasin
aromasin is a drug, not an otc product, and shouldn't be an ingredient in any product you guys make
or -- is that a Freudian slip on a Performax secret ingredient?
enquiring minds want to know

Lol, whoops! Damn autocomplete on the phone! Sorry, no freudian slip Gonna change that now

 

[Adizzle1]

I agree that Alphmax would make a great addition to a cutting cycle for a couple reasons. First helping to boost testosterone while controlling estrogen and cortisol should certianley assist in helping the user to maintain more muscle mass and strength. On top of containing Arimistane, it also contains 50mg of 95% Forksolin, an ingredient well known for its recomping effect, helping to increase LBM while decreasing FM.

 

[laneanders]

Tropinol XP would help. As would Intimidate SRT.

 

[mpaquett]

I think they can be very beneficial when utilized properly, and expectations aren't to high. On my last couple of cuts I've used Nolvadren XT and had some nice leaning/hardening effects starting towards the end of week two. It's become a staple of mine while cutting.

Recently I've been running a recomp log, more emphasis on leaning out, and stacked PR-XT, Na DAA and Nolvadren XT along with some Forskolin 95 and had some pretty phenomenal results with it. Much more than I had anticipated with hardly any adjustments to my overall diet.

 

[R1balla]

I like to use endosurge, erase, erase pro

 

[Jiigzz]

There's certainly a benefit to hormonal optimization for any goal, however what you're getting out of something that is OTC may not live up to your expectations.

+2.

 

[KevinJackson]

For gaining they use these test boosters

 

[warbird01]

I personally love an AI when cutting. Used to use 6 oxo with all my cuts and I always gained strength while losing fat. Also AIs dry you out which makes you look leaner.

 

[veaderko]

I've used tropinol and intimidate on a cut for a contest. Made the cut that much easier, was not nearly as moody, and libido was high along with getting some sleep and not waking up in the middle of the night wanting to eat a cow.

 

[R1balla]

yeah i love using AIs on a cut also. Actually, if i had to choose an AI vs a fat burner for a cut I would pick an AI. Thats just me though. I know how to control my diet and my training works with my body.

 

[ma70]

Thanks for all of the replies! I don't expect miracles from this stuff, but I notice people go crazy stacking this stuff. I was seeing if it was all worth it after I start cutting after my ArA cycle. Seems like for someone as young as me, it merely serves as a mood enhancer.

 

[kbayne]

I love the way AIs dry me out when I cut. The muscle hardness is always something I notice.

 

[Young Gotti]

I'm in the mind set that I'd rather use a complete test booster during a cut than using an AI, i find once you stop the AI on a cut that the benefits it gave you goes away fairly quickly

thats why i'd recommend something like Tropinol XP over something like erase, it'll give many more benefits than just dryness that an AI won't give you on a low calorie diet

 

[R1balla]

I'm in the mind set that I'd rather use a complete test booster during a cut than using an AI, i find once you stop the AI on a cut that the benefits it gave you goes away fairly quickly

thats why i'd recommend something like Tropinol XP over something like erase, it'll give many more benefits than just dryness that an AI won't give you on a low calorie diet

I disagree but that's just my opinion.

 

[kbayne]

i find once you stop the AI on a cut that the benefits it gave you goes away fairly quickly

Can be said about test boosters and other supplements as well.

 

[Young Gotti]

I disagree but that's just my opinion.

curious as to what part? the dryness aspect or the other benefits a test booster gives you

because for me anyway, an ai type product doesn't usually give me the aggresive feeling in the gym, i don't usually get a libido bump from ais, or the well being ....low calorie diets tend of wreck havoc in the motivation in the gym which stimulants could help with but libido could drop and just that feeling of crappyness when your not getting enough carbs

 

[Young Gotti]

Can be said about test boosters and other supplements as well.

true, and i won't rep here but when i ran one of my favorite test booters (testopro) i got slight strength gains and i kept the strength for a longer period of time after stopping use of the product vs an ai when the dryness seems to go away fairly quickly

 

[Adizzle1]

I know its mentioned earlier but a good comprimise could be Alphamax, contains 75mg of Arimistane so you get you strong AI to drop water etc. But also contains Divanil, L-Dopa, 95% Forskolin, ZMA, Vitamin D3 which will all help with the general testosterone boosting aspect as well!

 

[mw1]

I love the way AIs dry me out when I cut. The muscle hardness is always something I notice.

This is true but recently I've noticed more and more people using AIs TOO often. OTC or not , if you start messing with your test and estro levels too much it can cause yourself problems.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I'm in the mind set that I'd rather use a complete test booster during a cut than using an AI, i find once you stop the AI on a cut that the benefits it gave you goes away fairly quickly

thats why i'd recommend something like Tropinol XP over something like erase, it'll give many more benefits than just dryness that an AI won't give you on a low calorie diet

No offense but this post is nonsense. Erase doesn't only work by reducing water retention. You should probably look up the various effects of 7-oxo-dhea metabolites in the human body

 

[Jiigzz]

This is true but recently I've noticed more and more people using AIs TOO often. OTC or not , if you start messing with your test and estro levels too much it can cause yourself problems.

This. Estro is important to muscle building as well; don't crush it too often

 

[GeekPoop]

This is true but recently I've noticed more and more people using AIs TOO often. OTC or not , if you start messing with your test and estro levels too much it can cause yourself problems.

x2

I wouldn't touch an AI unless you are using some type of AAS/PH

 

[nicksox15]

What about Natty test boosters? Alphamax has armistane already in it, and most who use products such as Endosurge, DAA, etc... use erase to go along with that. I agree that they shouldn't be used longer than the recommended usage states but to each their own.

 

[Young Gotti]

No offense but this post is nonsense. Erase doesn't only work by reducing water retention. You should probably look up the various effects of 7-oxo-dhea metabolites in the human body

not really sure whats nonsense about it....a complete test booster will lend more benefits for someone who is cutting than what you've mentioned

for someone who has diet in check and has a fat burner of choice on hand....then you need to look past fat burning aspects and into other areas: training intensity, libido, and overall feeling of well being or alpha, one of the biggest complaints ppl have when their calories are restricted is lack of motivation in the gym and feeling run down, if you follow what llyle mcdonald says then you know he says to really lift heavy on a cut...a test booster would help keep the intensity higher than what you've mentioned...since the diet and supplementation are already set up to succeed at burning fat then getting in good weight training sessions should be one of the next objectives....no one likes going into the gym and feeling run down or lifting with sore joints either

i'll end this by saying erase is a good product and i just used it as an example, but since running it several times i'm in the opinion it's better for pct or stacked with a test booster than it is for fat burning effects

 

[mpaquett]

not really sure whats nonsense about it....a complete test booster will lend more benefits for someone who is cutting than what you've mentioned

for someone who has diet in check and has a fat burner of choice on hand....then you need to look past fat burning aspects and into other areas: training intensity, libido, and overall feeling of well being or alpha, one of the biggest complaints ppl have when their calories are restricted is lack of motivation in the gym and feeling run down, if you follow what llyle mcdonald says then you know he says to really lift heavy on a cut...a test booster would help keep the intensity higher than what you've mentioned...since the diet and supplementation are already set up to succeed at burning fat then getting in good weight training sessions should be one of the next objectives

What you're describing though is "placebo". I've never gotten anything like you describe out of a test booster. No "alpha" feelings, no increase in intensity, mild libido on some. Typically if I'm ever suffering from motivation and feeling run down that's where my pres come into play.

 

[nicksox15]

What you're describing though is "placebo". I've never gotten anything like you describe out of a test booster. No "alpha" feelings, no increase in intensity, mild libido on some. Typically if I'm ever suffering from motivation and feeling run down that's where my pres come into play.

Supplements effect people differently, just because you didn't get those feelings from it doesn't mean it's a "placebo" Test boosters wouldn't be so popular of a product if that were the case.

 

[mpaquett]

The only motivation a supplement capsule contains is "placebo". People get more motivated when taking supplements, but that doesn't have anything to do what with it actually contains. That's what a placebo is. If there were actual motivation supplements we wouldn't have obese people who start the gym at New Years and are gone by the first week of March.

Just my opinion on the matter.

 

[rphash49]

I can kinda buy into the statement that test boosters affect people differently. I personally have used many test booster to include every one mentioned in this thread. I get literally nothing from them that I can actually notice but i'm a healthy male with a baseline test level of 800-900 so take it for what it's worth.

AIs are a different story. Good or bad I notice the effects pretty quickly.

 

[R1balla]

curious as to what part? the dryness aspect or the other benefits a test booster gives you

because for me anyway, an ai type product doesn't usually give me the aggresive feeling in the gym, i don't usually get a libido bump from ais, or the well being ....low calorie diets tend of wreck havoc in the motivation in the gym which stimulants could help with but libido could drop and just that feeling of crappyness when your not getting enough carbs

Because the effects can stay if your diet is on point as well as training. If I had rebound effects with AIs I wouldn't use them. I'd only look good for a few weeks then go back to a little bloat or a little more fat... effects last for me.

 

[R1balla]

not really sure whats nonsense about it....a complete test booster will lend more benefits for someone who is cutting than what you've mentioned

for someone who has diet in check and has a fat burner of choice on hand....then you need to look past fat burning aspects and into other areas: training intensity, libido, and overall feeling of well being or alpha, one of the biggest complaints ppl have when their calories are restricted is lack of motivation in the gym and feeling run down, if you follow what llyle mcdonald says then you know he says to really lift heavy on a cut...a test booster would help keep the intensity higher than what you've mentioned...since the diet and supplementation are already set up to succeed at burning fat then getting in good weight training sessions should be one of the next objectives....no one likes going into the gym and feeling run down or lifting with sore joints either

i'll end this by saying erase is a good product and i just used it as an example, but since running it several times i'm in the opinion it's better for pct or stacked with a test booster than it is for fat burning effects

Maybe for you erase is best this way, but for many others it's great ran solo as well.

 

[kbayne]

Maybe for you erase is best this way, but for many others it's great ran solo as well.

Erase / Erase Pro will always be a part of my cutting stacks.

 

[ma70]

Hmm, does anyone have any good/current studies of 7-oxo-dhea? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I can't seem to find anything conclusive on the internet. More importantly, does this ingredient have another name that I'm unaware of?

Also, what does everyone think of bulbine? Seems to be a potent test booster/ai in one

 

[Jiigzz]

Thread by Neuron

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=126874163

 

[Jiigzz]

Hmm, does anyone have any good/current studies of 7-oxo-dhea? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I can't seem to find anything conclusive on the internet. More importantly, does this ingredient have another name that I'm unaware of?

Also, what does everyone think of bulbine? Seems to be a potent test booster/ai in one

Bulbine is a good product. I recommend giving it a try. SNS has bulbine and i just picked some up to try for a second time

 

[Natestreo]

I love Erase / Erase Pro as part of a cutting stack. I see reduced water retention, stay very lean and dry. I also enjoy the added fat loss that reducing estrogen provides.

I've explained it like this in the past....there is a reason women gain weight on birth control. Jacking estrogen will promote weight gain. Reducing estrogen assists fat loss. Potentiates, at the very least.

Hope thats not too redundant. Just my experience!

 

[mr.cooper69]

Hmm, does anyone have any good/current studies of 7-oxo-dhea? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I can't seem to find anything conclusive on the internet. More importantly, does this ingredient have another name that I'm unaware of?

Also, what does everyone think of bulbine? Seems to be a potent test booster/ai in one

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0011393X00800260

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17418559

 

[chedapalooza]

I wnt to chime in bc I used to LOVE erase. I would use on a cut or lean bulk and end up super dry, lean, and libido would increase.. I used it 3 or 4 times at 3, sometimes 4 caps a day with the above results

The last 3 times ive used it, at 3-4 caps a day, I notice little to no leaning or loss of water weight, and my libido tanks.

I've actually had bloods show a drop in free and total test while on erase the last time with no change in e2....

I can say from my experience it has been super effective, down to ineffective. Why could this be?

Is it possible that after several 8 week cycles, my baseline e2 has lowered, therefore automatically assuming I would benefit from 3 caps daily is a mistake? It's very strange to me that the same product could just suddenly Stop working for me.

I still love PES and support all their efforts.. I'm hoping the more knowledgable folk could postulate a reason for why this could be happening. I have a couple bottles left that I bought when I heard about the reformulation, so id love to figure this out!

 

[Jiigzz]

I wnt to chime in bc I used to LOVE erase. I would use on a cut or lean bulk and end up super dry, lean, and libido would increase.. I used it 3 or 4 times at 3, sometimes 4 caps a day with the above results

The last 3 times ive used it, at 3-4 caps a day, I notice little to no leaning or loss of water weight, and my libido tanks.

I've actually had bloods show a drop in free and total test while on erase the last time with no change in e2....

I can say from my experience it has been super effective, down to ineffective. Why could this be?

Is it possible that after several 8 week cycles, my baseline e2 has lowered, therefore automatically assuming I would benefit from 3 caps daily is a mistake? It's very strange to me that the same product could just suddenly Stop working for me.

I still love PES and support all their efforts.. I'm hoping the more knowledgable folk could postulate a reason for why this could be happening. I have a couple bottles left that I bought when I heard about the reformulation, so id love to figure this out!

People have been claiming on the anabolics section for a while that Erase did not touch their E2.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I wnt to chime in bc I used to LOVE erase. I would use on a cut or lean bulk and end up super dry, lean, and libido would increase.. I used it 3 or 4 times at 3, sometimes 4 caps a day with the above results

The last 3 times ive used it, at 3-4 caps a day, I notice little to no leaning or loss of water weight, and my libido tanks.

I've actually had bloods show a drop in free and total test while on erase the last time with no change in e2....

I can say from my experience it has been super effective, down to ineffective. Why could this be?

Is it possible that after several 8 week cycles, my baseline e2 has lowered, therefore automatically assuming I would benefit from 3 caps daily is a mistake? It's very strange to me that the same product could just suddenly Stop working for me.

I still love PES and support all their efforts.. I'm hoping the more knowledgable folk could postulate a reason for why this could be happening. I have a couple bottles left that I bought when I heard about the reformulation, so id love to figure this out!

This is likely due to variables like diet, training, etc...especially in your case in which your body composition, mood, and overall feeling are so heavily dependent on what you're doing to your body at any given time (no offense intended at all; just saying that you've been in a rather "fragile" physiological state these past few years)

 

[chedapalooza]

This is likely due to variables like diet, training, etc...especially in your case in which your body composition, mood, and overall feeling are so heavily dependent on what you're doing to your body at any given time (no offense intended at all; just saying that you've been in a rather "fragile" physiological state these past few years)

Yea I guess the more simple question is:
is it possible that after a while, one would need less arimastane to get the same effects?

 

[Jiigzz]

Yea I guess the more simple question is:
is it possible that after a while, one would need less arimastane to get the same effects?

You really should take a break from erase. It sounds like you're fearing estrogen

 

[ma70]

Bulbine is a good product. I recommend giving it a try. SNS has bulbine and i just picked some up to try for a second time

Yeah that is the one I was looking at. Did some research and it seems to work under a bell curve principle which means one bottle may last me a long time since I don't need to dose a lot of it during my planned cut in a few months (I'm 195 lbs, so I think 1-2 caps is okay for me).

Also, I did some research on test boosting in general and unfortunately my Google Chrome crashed (probably left it open too long or something) and I found some research that says while natty test boosters may not necessarily lead to strength gains because they are raising the levels in the "normal" physiological range, raising test in normal physiological range increases LBM due to increased fat loss. None of this is conclusive, and since I don't have the study on hand anymore don't quote me on this. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

Overall though, I know not to expect miracles from natty products overall (except ArA, LOL. this stuff is amazing), but I like to know this kind of stuff anyway.

 

[chedapalooza]

You really should take a break from erase. It sounds like you're fearing estrogen

Oh not at all. I haven't used it since July. I was off it several months and had no high estrogen sides, actually feels as tho I was harder (water) while off of it :/

I only use for 8 weeks at a time and always take 4-8 off, usually more