- 12-16-2013, 08:23 PM
Mim looking to make own GDA, using caps (no powders. I was thinking Na-rala with something... Can anyone who has done this chime in. So far I'm thinking : 500mg ALCAR 240-300mg Na-rala with something like bitter melon extract, Banaba, gymnema, or berberine, cinnamon extract and d-pinitol Which of these have people used? Trying to keep costs down All suggestions welcome. I can get applied NeoVar which has some of the mentioned ingredients in...
Main aim is to increase insulin sensitivity/nutrient partitioning rather than simply glucose disposal.
- 12-16-2013, 08:28 PM
- 12-16-2013, 08:30 PM
Serious Nutrition Solution ~~
mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
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12-16-2013, 08:34 PM
12-16-2013, 08:47 PM
12-16-2013, 08:49 PM
12-16-2013, 09:08 PM
12-16-2013, 09:32 PM
Always helpful SNS reps. In UK Glycophase is a little pricer, but undeniably I great profile.
Of the single ingredients listed, which are deemed the most effective for insulin sensitivity and nutrient partitioning?
12-17-2013, 05:02 AM
12-17-2013, 06:23 AM
As far as insulin sensitivity I'd say Na-R-ALA.
12-17-2013, 08:03 AM
I would cylce the one you listed rather than making a stack. Or maybe stack only few of them.
12-17-2013, 10:51 PM
12-17-2013, 11:57 PM
Cinnamon extract is amazing. It is sometimes recommended by doctors for type 2 and 1 diabetes.
Fish oil has a blood sugar control effect.
Green tea has a very good blood sugar comtrol. I've seen one studie where it had 30% over the placebo.
Agmatine is another good one. Aswell as general health.
Na-rala is great aswell.
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12-18-2013, 01:20 AM
12-18-2013, 05:09 AM
12-18-2013, 05:31 AM
12-18-2013, 06:26 PM
What are your suggestions?? I'm all ears
Maybe PES should bring something out with these things in mind...
Or maybe you already have plans to...
12-18-2013, 06:30 PM
12-18-2013, 06:40 PM
Many people use GDAs whilst bulking with the thought process that they are preferentially shuttling carbohydrates into skeletal muscle even when the MOA of the ingredient isn't this.
A couple of examples where the data supporting it's use is good but not necessarily the MOA you are looking for.
Green coffee bean:
"The mechanism(s) of the significant effects of GCA on weight loss, BMI, percent body fat, and heart rate are unknown. There have been some recent articles indicating that chlorogenic acid and its metabolite, caffeic acid, inhibit amylase at mM concentrations in vitro which, if it occurred in the gastrointestinal tract in vivo, would inhibit sugar absorption from starch consumption and thus decrease caloric input.12 That chlorogenic acid has a significant influence on glucose metabolism was well demonstrated by Rodrigues de Sotillo et al when they were able to demonstrate a significant improvement in glucose tolerance in Zucker rats.13 This relative deprivation of glucose could possibly explain the reduction in BMI as well as fat content seen in their other rat study14 and in our human study. Another group has clearly demonstrated that chlorogenic acid may in fact have an antagonistic effect on human glucose transport.15 Based on the dietary data in our study, the product was not an appetite suppressant. Extracts of green coffee beans inhibited pancreatic lipase in vitro with a 50% inhibitory concentration of 43 μM polyphenols.16 In support of this result, caffeinated but not decaffeinated coffee supplementation in humans produced a decrease in lipoprotein lipase.17"
"Gymnemic acid formulations have also been found useful against obesity, according to recent reports . This is attributed to the ability of gymnemic acids to delay the glucose absorption in the blood. The atomic arrangement of gymnemic acid molecules is similar to that of glucose molecules. These molecules fill the receptor locations on the taste buds thereby preventing its activation by sugar molecules present in the food, thereby curbing the sugar craving. Similarly, Gymnemic acid molecules fill the receptor location in the absorptive external layers of the intestine thereby preventing the sugar molecules absorption by the intestine, which results in low blood sugar level .
Gymnema leaf extract, notably the peptide ‘Gurmarin’, has been found to interfere with the ability of the taste buds on the tongue to taste sweet and bitter. Gymnemic acid has a similar effect. It is believed that by inhibiting the sweet taste sensation, people taking it will limit their intake of sweet foods, and this activity may be partially responsible for its hypoglycemic effect .
There are some possible mechanisms by which the leaves and especially Gymnemic acids from G. sylvestre exert its hypoglycemic effects are: 1) it increases secretion of insulin, 2) it promotes regeneration of islet cells, 3) it increases utilization of glucose: it is shown to increase the activities of enzymes responsible for utilization of glucose by insulin-dependant pathways, an increase in phosphorylase activity, decrease in gluconeogenic enzymes and sorbitol dehydrogenase, and 4) it causes inhibition of glucose absorption from intestine.
The gymnemic acid components are believed to block the absorption of glucose in the small intestine, the exact action being unknown. It could be involve one or more mechanisms .
12-18-2013, 07:11 PM
12-18-2013, 07:16 PM
12-18-2013, 09:41 PM
There are a lot of pathways and its not so cut and dry
Pure partitioning rarely happens.
You look at it in the way of nuclear receptors PPARa/y along with AMPk/PI3k
Pi3k or things that work along that line are anabolic signals. However some ingredients have action on carbohydrate inhibition along with workin that pathways : think banaba
Then berberine which could be a "pure" In a sense. This acts as agonist on PPARa and antagonist in PPARy. This essentially causes insulin resistance and causes repression of the lipogenic hormones in mid stage adipocyte differentiation irreversibly (PPARy) and while it increase uptake in liver and muscle. But also blocks digestion of carbs too
Then there are agonist of both PPARa/y. Which will cause glucose uptake in all cells however of a full agonist at the PPARy will cause lipogenic actions which are anabolic processes
So many ways to skin the cat. But pure MOAs are few and far between
I have found 2 ingredients that I want to put into a post workout carb that mimick the action of insulin at specific doses (same effects insulin has at 10mmol) from what I saw. Those are pure mimetics. Even VS can be called a pure mimetic but may block some carbs as well
12-19-2013, 05:17 PM
12-19-2013, 05:47 PM
12-19-2013, 10:10 PM
12-19-2013, 10:10 PM
12-20-2013, 02:59 AM
FWIW I just got some bulk Na-r-ala and combined about 200mg with 500mg berberine with a PWO meal (about 80g carbs) and the effects were awesome! Excellent pumps and energy with no bloated feeling. I will try it again after I figure out what the heck destroyed my stomach a couple of days ago, and if it works that well again, I will cap the mixture and use it. Berberine is likely the cheapest one you will find, and it is effective, but banaba is probably stronger.
12-20-2013, 03:02 AM
Essentially, what I was saying was that for the majority of ingredients, using it for the purpose of increased skeletal muscle uptake is futile when compared with other actions such as impairment of carbohydrate digestion.
12-20-2013, 04:01 AM
12-20-2013, 04:09 AM
12-20-2013, 04:58 AM
12-20-2013, 05:02 AM
This only ever came about when I first started using it and noticed feelings of hypoglycemia. I don't have any reliable readings to share, just a few spontaneously taken ones.
12-20-2013, 05:08 AM
12-21-2013, 07:47 AM
12-22-2013, 01:18 AM
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
12-22-2013, 06:08 AM
09-05-2014, 12:27 AM
09-08-2014, 07:19 AM
PES - PM me anytime for any questions
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09-20-2014, 10:55 AM
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