Are whey isolates even necessary? - AnabolicMinds.com

Are whey isolates even necessary?

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    Are whey isolates even necessary?


    With the addition of all the amino acid products that people are using pre and intra workout is a fast absorbing protein even worth it.

    Why not use a good blend. It's usually cheaper , better tasting and more satisfying. I could be wrong in this thought process.
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    I agree with you
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    I agree as well. Especially if they are utilizing the pre, and intra nutrition that window right after isn't as important. Whole food is best obviously BUT two points defending whey isolate. First for me I slam a whey ISO shake immediately upon rising (330 am). I cannot possibly eat food that early before a workout. This usually is my only shake unless I can't get food in within an hour after wo.
    2nd whey ISO is soooooo helpful for people bulking when cals are at crazy highs. It's almost impossible to comfortably get in 5000 k without shakes.

    Again I do understand your point bud
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    Quote Originally Posted by roblasane View Post
    With the addition of all the amino acid products that people are using pre and intra workout is a fast absorbing protein even worth it.

    Why not use a good blend. It's usually cheaper , better tasting and more satisfying. I could be wrong in this thought process.
    There's a couple of reasons for using an isolate:

    -If you're moderately lactose intolerant and want to minimize your lactose intake without having to consume more expensive non-dairy proteins.
    -If for whatever reason you need to precisely minimize your carb/fat intake at a given time.
    -For some reason you like the taste

    Your general thoughts about isolates being unnecessary for most people are correct though.
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    Protein supplements are unnecessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post

    There's a couple of reasons for using an isolate:

    -If you're moderately lactose intolerant and want to minimize your lactose intake without having to consume more expensive non-dairy proteins.
    -If for whatever reason you need to precisely minimize your carb/fat intake at a given time.
    -For some reason you like the taste

    Your general thoughts about isolates being unnecessary for most people are correct though.
    Point 1: lactase pills
    Point 2: chicken breast
    Point 3: learn to cook lol

    Just kidding.

    Point 3 tho: if you have a sweet tooth

    But I was just being an ass and showing counter arguments

    I love whole foods

    And as far as post workout isolate I feel bcaas work fine in that regard to increase mps similar to isolat
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    I've been going the 1% chocolate milk route for the past couple of weeks now. I did jump on the Oxy Protein for $20 last week but after that I might just stick with the Chocolate milk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    Point 1: lactase pills
    Point 2: chicken breast
    Point 3: learn to cook lol

    Just kidding.

    Point 3 tho: if you have a sweet tooth

    But I was just being an ass and showing counter arguments

    I love whole foods

    And as far as post workout isolate I feel bcaas work fine in that regard to increase mps similar to isolat
    That's just reasons people might use an isolate over other protein supplements, not a recommendation that people use WPI supplements
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    PES Select Protein...blend, added lactase, tastes great. Are you not entertained?
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Protein supplements are unnecessary.
    Agreed.

    They can be utilized effectively like as beaner stated; if you workout in the A.M and cannot eat a good meal being hitting the gym (and I hate training fasted), then slamming a protein shake can be useful.

    Although I prefer chocolate milk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddfox View Post
    I've been going the 1% chocolate milk route for the past couple of weeks now. I did jump on the Oxy Protein for $20 last week but after that I might just stick with the Chocolate milk.
    Yes! I like my reinforced protein and vitamin Chocolate milk
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    Yes, if your budget allows, use isolates over blends

    nothing wrong with a blends, thats usually what i use anyway but if i could i'd go with isolates...you want that quick spike in protein synthesis that isolate gives you with the higher level absorption rate

    isotean vanilla dream has been the best tasting isolate i've had....some isolate protein tastes like colored water
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    Yes, if your budget allows, use isolates over blends

    nothing wrong with a blends, thats usually what i use anyway but if i could i'd go with isolates...you want that quick spike in protein synthesis that isolate gives you with the higher level absorption rate

    isotean vanilla dream has been the best tasting isolate i've had....some isolate protein tastes like colored water
    I don't always drink protein shakes, but when I do, I want my amino acids to spike fast, and be largely used for glucogenic/insulinogenic purposes while quickly returning to baseline levels offering minimal extended benefit.
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    Supplements are.... supplements. Lol. If you manage to eat enough protein from food you dont need them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    I don't always drink protein shakes, but when I do, I want my amino acids to spike fast, and be largely used for glucogenic/insulinogenic purposes while quickly returning to baseline levels offering minimal extended benefit.
    isn't the whole point to reach baseline again pretty quickly? this way if your eating a meal every 4 hours or so, your maximizing protein synthesis as often as possible throughout the day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    isn't the whole point to reach baseline again pretty quickly? this way if your eating a meal every 4 hours or so, your maximizing protein synthesis as often as possible throughout the day
    Thats what supplement companies want you to believe. Eat a scoop of the protein supplement every 4 hours just to keep protein synthesis and their business going. In fact, meal count doesnt matter as long as you meet the macros on a daily basis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecto84 View Post
    Thats what supplement companies want you to believe. Eat a scoop of the protein supplement every 4 hours just to keep protein synthesis and their business going. In fact, meal count doesnt matter as long as you meet the macros on a daily basis.
    i'm not talking about taking a scoop of protein every 4 hours...and my information isn't coming from supplement companies
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    isn't the whole point to reach baseline again pretty quickly? this way if your eating a meal every 4 hours or so, your maximizing protein synthesis as often as possible throughout the day
    Your goal with protein and amino acid consumption should be to increase net protein balance, and to maximize the AUC of that increase, right?

    In which case, the current published data is pretty clear that rapid digestion and absorption is not ideal when compared to blends, or even just slower digesting proteins alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Your goal with protein and amino acid consumption should be to increase net protein balance, and to maximize the AUC of that increase, right?

    In which case, the current published data is pretty clear that rapid digestion and absorption is not ideal when compared to blends, or even just slower digesting proteins alone.
    yeah but data also shows slow digesting protein like casein has little effect on overall protein synthesis, whey is king and your main goal for shakes should be to maximize protein synthesis as fast as possible...protein synthesis is going to return to baseline in about 2 hours either way

    so for example: you lift at the gym, drink an isolate shake after the gym...you want the fast acting protein, theres no need for slow digesting because you should be eating a meal shortly there after anyway....the slow drip of protein is pretty useless if your eating enough whole meals because you'll constantly be getting the needed protein in various forms anyway

    maybe if your replacing meals with shakes then it could be useful but thats about it
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    Quote Originally Posted by roblasane View Post
    With the addition of all the amino acid products that people are using pre and intra workout is a fast absorbing protein even worth it.

    Why not use a good blend. It's usually cheaper , better tasting and more satisfying. I could be wrong in this thought process.
    If you're on a budget, your much better lff just concerning yourself with your total protein intake. Just make sure the profile is decent in AA's and not artifically boosted with glycine content. Throwing in a scoop of bulk leucine is great and affordable too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by antihero View Post
    If you're on a budget, your much better lff just concerning yourself with your total protein intake. Just make sure the profile is decent in AA's and not artifically boosted with glycine content. Throwing in a scoop of bulk leucine is great and affordable too.
    this should be first and foremost...thats why i use blends mostly, because of price
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    yeah but data also shows slow digesting protein like casein has little effect on overall protein synthesis, whey is king and your main goal for shakes should be to maximize protein synthesis as fast as possible...protein synthesis is going to return to baseline in about 2 hours either way

    so for example: you lift at the gym, drink an isolate shake after the gym...you want the fast acting protein, theres no need for slow digesting because you should be eating a meal shortly there after anyway....the slow drip of protein is pretty useless if your eating enough whole meals because you'll constantly be getting the needed protein in various forms anyway

    maybe if your replacing meals with shakes then it could be useful but thats about it
    Effect of protein blend vs whey protein ingestion on muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise

    We conclude, from these preliminary data that following resistance exercise, the ingestion of a protein blend enhances mTORC1 signaling and MPS similarly to that of whey protein.
    Protein Blend Ingestion Following Resistance Exercise Promotes Human Muscle Protein Synthesis

    Postexercise FSR increased equivalently in both groups during the early period; however, FSR remained elevated only in the PB group during the late period
    (Where early is 0-2 hours, and late is 2-4 hours)

    A soy, whey and caseinate blend extends postprandial skeletal muscle protein synthesis in rats.

    Single source proteins and protein blends all enhance skeletal MPS after a meal, however, Blend 2 had a delayed FSR peak which was significantly higher than whey protein at 135 min.
    --
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    i think your missing my points
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    My primary point is that blends outperform whey isolate on its own.

    My secondary point would be that blends should be significantly cheaper than an isolate product (Although there's this funny recent trend of companies touting this as a new concept and selling blends of cheaper albeit more effective protein ingredients at premium prices...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecto84 View Post
    Thats what supplement companies want you to believe. Eat a scoop of the protein supplement every 4 hours just to keep protein synthesis and their business going. In fact, meal count doesnt matter as long as you meet the macros on a daily basis.
    To a point yes. This may be true for a good percentage of us gym rats. For those who compete and or just want to look their best as far as finely tunes cuts muscularity etc. meal timing and actually nutrient timing plays a huge role. I can attest to this personally through experimentation with my own body. I tried the pure macro only (IIFYM) this last summer and definitely saw a difference and lack of results.

    I'll add that you can hit macros all day long but if you're missing your micros your results will suffer.

    Just my .02
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    My primary point is that blends outperform whey isolate on its own.

    My secondary point would be that blends should be significantly cheaper than an isolate product (Although there's this funny recent trend of companies touting this as a new concept and selling blends of cheaper albeit more effective protein ingredients at premium prices...)
    and i'm saying i disagree with the first part....those studies aren't taking enough into account, like whole foods making the 8 hour amino drip from caesin kind of pointless, unless your just not eating the slow release isn't necessary

    i agree on the blends though, but i prefer a whey isolate and whey concentrate blend over whey and caesin...which is also odd because the protein i'm using at the moment has milk protein isolate, caesin, whey and who else knows what in it
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    [sigh] these are such fun and entertaining threads
    splitting the minutiae, and everyone always thinks their version is the right one
    always good times

    real food, ftw
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean5er View Post

    To a point yes. This may be true for a good percentage of us gym rats. For those who compete and or just want to look their best as far as finely tunes cuts muscularity etc. meal timing and actually nutrient timing plays a huge role. I can attest to this personally through experimentation with my own body. I tried the pure macro only (IIFYM) this last summer and definitely saw a difference and lack of results.

    I'll add that you can hit macros all day long but if you're missing your micros your results will suffer.

    Just my .02
    Yes! Micros before macros.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean5er View Post
    To a point yes. This may be true for a good percentage of us gym rats. For those who compete and or just want to look their best as far as finely tunes cuts muscularity etc. meal timing and actually nutrient timing plays a huge role. I can attest to this personally through experimentation with my own body. I tried the pure macro only (IIFYM) this last summer and definitely saw a difference and lack of results.

    I'll add that you can hit macros all day long but if you're missing your micros your results will suffer.

    Just my .02
    I agree with a lot of what you are saying here!

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Yes! Micros before macros.
    Bros before hoes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Bros before hoes.
    ive been seeing a lot more of hoes before bros as of late...it's disheartening
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    ive been seeing a lot more of hoes before bros as of late...it's disheartening

    Haha I'm really just messing around. I don't talk like that at all normally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Yes! Micros before macros.
    This is exactly where I was going jiigzz. Thank you sir!
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