DAA Works, If you don't make the mistake Baylor did

[De__eB]

We've all seen the new study on D-AA and the subsequent bunch of anti-supplement bloggers talking about how it doesn't work.

What most people probably didn't notice is a key difference between the material used in the two studies that show it does work:

D-Aspartate, A key element for the Improvement of Sperm Quality
The role and molecular mechanism of D-aspartic acid in the release and synthesis of LH and testosterone in humans and rats

And the one showing it does not:

D-Aspartic Acid supplementatoin combined with 28 days of heavy resistance training has no effect on body composition, muscle strength, and serum hormones associated with the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis in resistance trained men.

That difference being?

The studies in favor of DAA are using chelated Sodium DAA
Baylor only used straight DAA for their study

Why does this matter?

Because D-AA on its own without a mineral chelate has horrible bioavailability.

A quick survey of the nutraplanet store shows the following awesome companies that are selling the right type of DAA:

SNS DAA
E-Pharm TestForce
AI Sports DAA
Purus D-Pol

A few brands that are selling inferior DAA:

USPLabs DAA3K
SS DAA
NP Bulk DAA

 

[ricroc]

I believe there's a thread on here that talks about people using baking soda in their regular DAA to mimic the qualities of sodium-DAA.

 

[amarula]

We've all seen the new study on D-AA and the subsequent bunch of anti-supplement bloggers talking about how it doesn't work.

What most people probably didn't notice is a key difference between the material used in the two studies that show it does work:

D-Aspartate, A key element for the Improvement of Sperm Quality
The role and molecular mechanism of D-aspartic acid in the release and synthesis of LH and testosterone in humans and rats

And the one showing it does not:

D-Aspartic Acid supplementatoin combined with 28 days of heavy resistance training has no effect on body composition, muscle strength, and serum hormones associated with the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis in resistance trained men.

That difference being?

The studies in favor of DAA are using chelated Sodium DAA
Baylor only used straight DAA for their study

Why does this matter?

Because D-AA on its own without a mineral chelate has horrible bioavailability.

A quick survey of the nutraplanet store shows the following awesome companies that are selling the right type of DAA:

SNS DAA
E-Pharm TestForce
AI Sports DAA

A few brands that are selling inferior DAA:

USPLabs DAA3K
SS DAA
NP Bulk DAA

How do you know the brands above are using the correct type? I have AI Sports DAA and the label only says DAA

 

[ricroc]

For AI Sports, if you look at the ingredient listing, it lists (Sodium D-Aspartic Acid).

The "sodium" is how you know it's the same as used in the study.

 

[De__eB]

How do you know the brands above are using the correct type? I have AI Sports DAA and the label only says DAA

The brands I listed all identify it as sodium (or in PAs case calcium) d-aa

 

[amarula]

For AI Sports, if you look at the ingredient listing, it lists (Sodium D-Aspartic Acid).

The "sodium" is how you know it's the same as used in the study.

Correct, I didn't remember seeing that but I went check out and there it is.

 

[bakerwil]

We've all seen the new study on D-AA and the subsequent bunch of anti-supplement bloggers talking about how it doesn't work.

What most people probably didn't notice is a key difference between the material used in the two studies that show it does work:

D-Aspartate, A key element for the Improvement of Sperm Quality
The role and molecular mechanism of D-aspartic acid in the release and synthesis of LH and testosterone in humans and rats

And the one showing it does not:

D-Aspartic Acid supplementatoin combined with 28 days of heavy resistance training has no effect on body composition, muscle strength, and serum hormones associated with the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis in resistance trained men.

That difference being?

The studies in favor of DAA are using chelated Sodium DAA
Baylor only used straight DAA for their study

Why does this matter?

Because D-AA on its own without a mineral chelate has horrible bioavailability.

A quick survey of the nutraplanet store shows the following awesome companies that are selling the right type of DAA:

SNS DAA
E-Pharm TestForce
AI Sports DAA

A few brands that are selling inferior DAA:

USPLabs DAA3K
SS DAA
NP Bulk DAA

I am and continue to use DPOL - I am 46 and it absolutely blows me away how strong I get and how easy I can put on a couple of pounds of pure muscle each cycle (for me 2-3 times a year using ARA when not DPOL). So what kind of DAA is in DPOL?

 

[De__eB]

I am and continue to use DPOL - I am 46 and it absolutely blows me away how strong I get and how easy I can put on a couple of pounds of pure muscle each cycle (for me 2-3 times a year using ARA when not DPOL). So what kind of DAA is in DPOL?

Look at the label?

 

[ricroc]

I am and continue to use DPOL - I am 46 and it absolutely blows me away how strong I get and how easy I can put on a couple of pounds of pure muscle each cycle (for me 2-3 times a year using ARA when not DPOL). So what kind of DAA is in DPOL?

The label doesn't specifically state which version of DAA, and since it does not, I would say that this is regular d-aspartic acid, not the sodium version.

I tried DAA last year for the first time at the age of 34. I could tell something was going on and like you, I hadn't packed on that much weight since I had been in my early 20s.

This was regular DAA, mind you.

One other thing: DAA is more beneficial to older gents than guys still in their 20s. I'd go so far as to say that once you're in your 30s, you should feel something of DAA. Some have, others have not, but the general consensus seems to be that you get more from it the older you are.

 

[Danb2285]

Dpol is sodium based

 

[De__eB]

Dpol is sodium based

Sodium 130mg 5%

^ seems legit

Perhaps on future batches you guys could make it more clear on the label

Edited into OP regardless

 

[EatMoar]

How do you know the brands above are using the correct type? I have AI Sports DAA and the label only says DAA

Nope its sodium daa I have a tub from AI

 

[bakerwil]

Look at the label?

Does not say, that why I was asking.

 

[EatMoar]

The label doesn't specifically state which version of DAA, and since it does not, I would say that this is regular d-aspartic acid, not the sodium version.

I tried DAA last year for the first time at the age of 34. I could tell something was going on and like you, I hadn't packed on that much weight since I had been in my early 20s.

This was regular DAA, mind you.

One other thing: DAA is more beneficial to older gents than guys still in their 20s. I'd go so far as to say that once you're in your 30s, you should feel something of DAA. Some have, others have not, but the general consensus seems to be that you get more from it the older you are.

Daa also aggregates the nmda receptors which is boss for preloading for an exam/studying aesh

 

[cptstabbin]

Is there any form of DAA that shouldn't make me run to the nearest toilet?

 

[kbayne]

Is there any form of DAA that shouldn't make me run to the nearest toilet?

Split the doses up.

 

[De__eB]

Link to human pharmacokinetic data please. Hint: there is none

While the Baylor didn't show a signifcant increase in serum DAA levels, they did demonstrate a significant increase in d-aspartate oxidase [DDO]. The lack of a signifcant increase in serum DAA levels in the DAA group was to be expected though. They measured it 24h after the last supplement dose and rat data indicates serum DAA returns to baseline in 24-48h. The DDO increase indicates at least part of the DAA made it into systemic circulation.

Your comments about DAA's horrible bioavailability and the existence of [pharmacodynamically] superior forms is mere speculation and even bordering wishful thinking if you ask me. I think the conclusions of the Baylor researchers are most consistent with the evidence.

And yet their study specifically used a different form of DAA than both prior human studies and was designed to prove a hypothesis that it DOESN'T work, as opposed to rationally basing their hypothesis on the two prior studies showing that it does?

DDO being elevated does not in itself demonstrate in any way that the D-Aspartate was absorbed to the extent needed to potentially affect the HPTA, and they admit this in the study when discussing this.

 

[jbryand101b]

na, daa works. everyone not on the internet I know that have used it have experienced syptoms of increased testosterone.

is this increase enough to cause you to be any where close to supraphysiological dosages of testosterone? nope.

now how long these effects last in users, well, it seems to vary. from anecdotal evidence, I feel it should be cycled for optimal results.

 

[kissdadookie]

This is great info. Good job.

 

[Grayson]

And neither does any of this demonstrate DAA has horrible bioavailability, let alone that other forms are pharmacodynamically superior.

You make potentially valid initial points in your OP, but the conclusions you draw from them are mere speculation IMO.

I hope more studies are underway to settle this debate.

What other forms are you talking about? NMDA?

 

[JD261985]

I mentioned this before in a thread and no one cared they just kept rambling on about how DAA doesn't work and maybe it doesn't. However sodium and the other chelated version do work

 

[fightbackhxc]

We've all seen the new study on D-AA and the subsequent bunch of anti-supplement bloggers talking about how it doesn't work.

What most people probably didn't notice is a key difference between the material used in the two studies that show it does work:

D-Aspartate, A key element for the Improvement of Sperm Quality
The role and molecular mechanism of D-aspartic acid in the release and synthesis of LH and testosterone in humans and rats

And the one showing it does not:

D-Aspartic Acid supplementatoin combined with 28 days of heavy resistance training has no effect on body composition, muscle strength, and serum hormones associated with the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis in resistance trained men.

That difference being?

The studies in favor of DAA are using chelated Sodium DAA
Baylor only used straight DAA for their study

Why does this matter?

Because D-AA on its own without a mineral chelate has horrible bioavailability.

A quick survey of the nutraplanet store shows the following awesome companies that are selling the right type of DAA:

SNS DAA
E-Pharm TestForce
AI Sports DAA
Purus D-Pol

A few brands that are selling inferior DAA:

USPLabs DAA3K
SS DAA
NP Bulk DAA

Excellent post. SNS has quality DAA for a very cost friendly price. Best raws at the lowest buck.

 

[warbird01]

How do you dose baking soda with normal ****ty DAA?

Can I cook up some daa crack?

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

How do you dose baking soda with normal ****ty DAA?

Can I cook up some daa crack?

Put in shaker with DAA. Shake. Drink. Voila!

 

[rockme]

DAA works. I used it over a year ago and something was going on. Pumps were awesome in the gym, and strength increased at an impressive rate. Libido went up the first couple weeks, then plummeted. I used NP bulk. Now I wonder if this sodium based DAA would deliver even more so...

 

[jbryand101b]

How do you dose baking soda with normal ****ty DAA?

Can I cook up some daa crack?

Yup, I been slinging daarack on the corner in the locker room for a a while now.

People be like, "yo, I got these cheese burgers man , come on yo, I'll suck yo...."

You know wha I'm sayin yo?

 

[scoooter]

Daa - take it with a grain of salt......

 

[schizm]

Daa - take it with a grain of salt......

Salt...sodium...scooter made a funny everyone!!! Lol...

 

[mr.cooper69]

The fact that DAA oxidase was elevated in the supplementation group shows that DAA reached the bloodstream, aka it was absorbed, aka bioavailability was not the sole issue (though I surmise it is markedly reduced in bulk). The study as a whole strikes me as odd, but the proper conclusion, IMO, is not that the form of DAA was wrong.

 

[jbryand101b]

The fact that DAA oxidase was elevated in the supplementation group shows that DAA reached the bloodstream, aka it was absorbed, aka bioavailability was not the sole issue (though I surmise it is markedly reduced in bulk). The study as a whole strikes me as odd, but the proper conclusion, IMO, is not that the form of DAA was wrong.

So what your saying is use Hcg as a test booster instead?

 

[De__eB]

And neither does any of this demonstrate DAA has horrible bioavailability, let alone that other forms are pharmacodynamically superior.

You make potentially valid initial points in your OP, but the conclusions you draw from them are mere speculation IMO.

I hope more studies are underway to settle this debate.

Bioavailability perhaps the wrong word, rapidly metabolized perhaps more appropriate?

Further study on the specificity of D-amino acid oxidase and D-aspartate oxidase and time course for complete oxidation of D-amino acids.

 

[Beau]

Is there any form of DAA that shouldn't make me run to the nearest toilet?

Take it with sodium bicarbonate.

Seriously.

 

[Beau]

How do you dose baking soda with normal ****ty DAA?

1. Add baking soda to water.
2. Mix.
3. Put DAA in mouth.
4. Wash down with mixture of baking soda and water.

Reportedly, efficacy is increased if administered while wearing a kilt, but YMMV.

This is far preferred over the "enema protocol".

 

[Beau]

So what your saying is use Hcg as a test booster instead?

That's what I got from it.

 

[MaXopA]

any idea whether myprotein's DAA powder is chelated or just sodium?

 

[De__eB]

Unless it specifically says it is, I'd assume it isn't

 

[MaXopA]

Unless it specifically says it is, I'd assume it isn't

so in this case you recommend taking 3g DAA with the same amount of baking soda, did I get that right?

 

[Chefdeez]

Sounds like a company just trying to say that their version is better than others. Yawn.

 

[jbryand101b]

Sounds like a company just trying to say that their version is better than others. Yawn.

That's cause your reading comprehension sucks.

 

[De__eB]

Sounds like a company just trying to say that their version is better than others. Yawn.

Sounds like a company saying 'hey, there's a reason PA introduced chelated DAA to the market and not straight DAA'

 

[Chefdeez]

Sounds like a company saying 'hey, there's a reason PA introduced chelated DAA to the market and not straight DAA'

Had blood work done 7 days into using NP's bulk DAA (did not plan on getting blood work done) and showed an increase in T levels. Checked again 2 weeks after I had stopped taking it, levels back down.

 

[Young Gotti]

Had blood work done 7 days into using NP's bulk DAA (did not plan on getting blood work done) and showed an increase in T levels. Checked again 2 weeks after I had stopped taking it, levels back down.

3 days is what i believe i've read for your baseline to go back to normal, but i've seen on this place ppl say otherwise

 

[Chefdeez]

3 days is what i believe i've read for your baseline to go back to normal, but i've seen on this place ppl say otherwise

Seems about right. I think DAA does increase total T but personally I don't think it enhances performance that much if at all IMO.

 

[Young Gotti]

Seems about right. I think DAA does increase total T but personally I don't think it enhances performance that much if at all IMO.

i share the same view....i don't even use daa anymore because it doesn't do anything for me in terms of gym results, makes for a good laxative though

 

[Swolljaboi]

I find that I feel a definite increase in aggression, overall energy levels, and motivation while on DAA. I'm 30 years old though maybe my natural T is starting to drop.

 

[fightnews]

We've all seen the new study on D-AA and the subsequent bunch of anti-supplement bloggers talking about how it doesn't work.

What most people probably didn't notice is a key difference between the material used in the two studies that show it does work:

D-Aspartate, A key element for the Improvement of Sperm Quality
The role and molecular mechanism of D-aspartic acid in the release and synthesis of LH and testosterone in humans and rats

And the one showing it does not:

D-Aspartic Acid supplementatoin combined with 28 days of heavy resistance training has no effect on body composition, muscle strength, and serum hormones associated with the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis in resistance trained men.

That difference being?

The studies in favor of DAA are using chelated Sodium DAA
Baylor only used straight DAA for their study

Why does this matter?

Because D-AA on its own without a mineral chelate has horrible bioavailability.

A quick survey of the nutraplanet store shows the following awesome companies that are selling the right type of DAA:

SNS DAA
E-Pharm TestForce
AI Sports DAA
Purus D-Pol

A few brands that are selling inferior DAA:

USPLabs DAA3K
SS DAA
NP Bulk DAA

how about finaflex puretest? Is that the sh1t kind? i bought it because it was 9 bucks

 

[fightnews]

I mentioned this before in a thread and no one cared they just kept rambling on about how DAA doesn't work and maybe it doesn't. However sodium and the other chelated version do work

sounds like the old trib bs. Oh it works you just have to have the "right" kind

 

[fightnews]

1. Add baking soda to water.
2. Mix.
3. Put DAA in mouth.
4. Wash down with mixture of baking soda and water.

Reportedly, efficacy is increased if administered while wearing a kilt, but YMMV.

This is far preferred over the "enema protocol".

Speak for yourself

 

[MaXopA]

so did anyone test DAA powder with baking soda??

 

[fightnews]

I wis h i didnt buy the sh1t kind id rather not take it with baking soda especially since i got pills. Everytime i cheap out its always something