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Holy Cow... Aegeline No More

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post

    But there have been several confirmed cases in a few states in the US now....I cant remember off hand how many states
    I've only seen an article on the one in Connecticut.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I've only seen an article on the one in Connecticut.
    I only care so much because a friend on mine is sitting on four tubs of the stuff; I don't want them consuming something that has the potential to make them very sick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I've only seen an article on the one in Connecticut.
    connecticut? no s**t
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I've only seen an article on the one in Connecticut.
    It was like 5+.. it may have been on the CDC report but I cant remember at the moment. I think consumers should be happy that the CDC is investigating cause they will do a MUCH more thorough job investigating that the FDA ever could

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    I only care so much because a friend on mine is sitting on four tubs of the stuff; I don't want them consuming something that has the potential to make them very sick.
    I, personally, have been skeptical of this whole situation since the start. Hell, the original news article clearly stated that there were cases of the same illness, in the same area, that were not related to OEP.

    I don't pretend to know why other possibilities aren't being examined, but I also wouldn't advise people to use the products in question until there's more information available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    It was like 5+.. it may have been on the CDC report but I cant remember at the moment. I think consumers should be happy that the CDC is investigating cause they will do a MUCH more thorough job investigating that the FDA ever could
    Jeez.

    I tried to get him to toss them but he paid a fortune for them lol
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    Possibly mixing the OEP with the dirty water amplified the effects of both?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsy7 View Post
    Possibly mixing the OEP with the dirty water amplified the effects of both?
    Wait, what?


    Did you read that before posting it? Or any of this thread for that matter?

    Cliffs:

    Not all of the cases involve OEP.
    Not all of the cases were isolated to Hawaii.
    Not all of the cases are even in the US.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    38 isnt alot of people for an entire area that has filthy, disease-contaminated water. my sister went there and got really sick; oxy elite wasnt involved. conversely, i can drink water anywhere on the globe, as long as it isnt disease-ridden. none of that makes sense to you? areas that have crappy water that tourists arent used to are areas that have disease problems
    You do realize that this was non-viral non-contagious acute hepatitis we are talking about here right? It's the kind of hepatitis that is brought on usually from heavy alcohol use or drugs uses.

    So this theory of yours about the environmental contamination in the water and such doesn't make sense because 1) there would probably need to be actual toxicity in the water 2) water apart from well water is tested and treated for toxicity and carcinogens (since Hawaii is part if the US, I'm guessing EPA does regulate their drinking water systems) 3) contamination of the water supply will lead to far more than 30 something cases of illness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I've only seen an article on the one in Connecticut.
    Why do you keep mis-citing facts and statistics to downplay these issues. I am sure your Google still works so it would be easy to see that as of the end of October they tied 56 cases to OEP and there have been recent reported cases in Ohio, California,Connecticut and someone on here reported New Zealand which I know you saw in another thread. You can be skeptical, blame the FDA and etc. all you want, but at least use accurate data and information when trying assure others everything is a okay or just a misunderstanding by the mean ole FDA.
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    . . . And a case reported in Ireland. There is much info out there and some explanations regarding the reporting issues and many of the questions asked by same individuals over and over in every thread. Research, understand and make informed decisions.
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    I think Hawaii could have just noticed It first due to it being a small archipelago with only a few large hospitals. It would stand out more in comparison to mainland u.s where each state is significantly larger with many more hospitals. Just a thought though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    I think Hawaii could have just noticed It first due to it being a small archipelago with only a few large hospitals. It would stand out more in comparison to mainland u.s where each state is significantly larger with many more hospitals. Just a thought though.
    Yeah, I would reckon that that things would have been more concentrated in Hawaii and would have been more acutely noticed than mainland US.
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    Remember some people were convinced Craze was legit and fought tooth and nail on the forums defending it. We can't be sure it's the supplement yet, but lol at those who absolutely believe companies so much that they can't even fathom mistakes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    I think Hawaii could have just noticed It first due to it being a small archipelago with only a few large hospitals. It would stand out more in comparison to mainland u.s where each state is significantly larger with many more hospitals. Just a thought though.
    That makes no sense at all. Do you even statistics?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Remember some people were convinced Craze was legit and fought tooth and nail on the forums defending it. We can't be sure it's the supplement yet, but lol at those who absolutely believe companies so much that they can't even fathom mistakes.
    Can't really count the Craze Dendrobex issue a mistake, lulz. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    That makes no sense at all. Do you even statistics?
    Wouldn't it be harder to notice the outbreak if incidences were more spread out though as opposed to being more localized and concentrated?
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    ^thats what I was thinking. Oahu and the big island are the major ones and their hospitals are few and far between. Drive around the whole island in 2 hrs. Again this was just a thought and a logical one at that
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Can't really count the Craze Dendrobex issue a mistake, lulz. :P



    Wouldn't it be harder to notice the outbreak if incidences were more spread out though as opposed to being more localized and concentrated?
    Mistakes may have been a poor term. The supplement industry has a long shady history and some people act like nothing could be more shocking than another chapter added to it.

    I don't know if OEP is to blame or not, but remember Craze had far more defenders of it has to be legit than people calling it out. Again I will say it's too early to pass judgment either way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Mistakes may have been a poor term. The supplement industry has a long shady history and some people act like nothing could be more shocking than another chapter added to it.

    I don't know if OEP is to blame or not, but remember Craze had far more defenders of it has to be legit than people calling it out. Again I will say it's too early to pass judgment either way.
    I agree with that sentiment.
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    Why would incidences be spread out in other states? Why would they be more concentrated in Hawaii?

    If OEP has some ingredient in it that causes hepatitis, you're not going to have 40 cases in one place, and 5 throughout the other 99.6% of the population just because of how few hospitals there are in Hawaii. There would be thousands elsewhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Why would incidences be spread out in other states? Why would they be more concentrated in Hawaii? If OEP has some ingredient in it that causes hepatitis, you're not going to have 40 cases in one place, and 5 throughout the other 99.6% of the population just because of how few hospitals there are in Hawaii.
    Agreed. I personally had high liver values when on micro and bronkaid over spring. I talked with coop about it but I blamed bronkaid. I told my dr I was on supps but he didn't ask which ones. He just told me to stop. I had a stomach ultra sound etc and after 6 weeks they finally dropped. Either way it sucks for the people just trying to shed a few.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Why would incidences be spread out in other states? Why would they be more concentrated in Hawaii?

    If OEP has some ingredient in it that causes hepatitis, you're not going to have 40 cases in one place, and 5 throughout the other 99.6% of the population just because of how few hospitals there are in Hawaii. There would be thousands elsewhere.
    That is a very good point actually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Why would incidences be spread out in other states? Why would they be more concentrated in Hawaii?

    If OEP has some ingredient in it that causes hepatitis, you're not going to have 40 cases in one place, and 5 throughout the other 99.6% of the population just because of how few hospitals there are in Hawaii. There would be thousands elsewhere.
    Several doctors and CDC have addressed this.

    43 cases have been linked to OEP in Hawaii.

    FDA says 12 other states have reported cases linked to OEP since end of October and now that doctors are looking for possible OEP link in other states when patient presents with liver failure. Biopsies, labs, presentation, age, health and etc. are also examined and compared with Hawaii cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    Several doctors and CDC have addressed this.

    43 cases have been linked to OEP in Hawaii.

    FDA says 12 other states have reported cases linked to OEP since end of October and now that doctors are looking for possible OEP link in other states when patient presents with liver failure. Biopsies, labs, presentation, age, health and etc. are also examined and compared with Hawaii cases.
    It's also important for people to realize that a link can exist without 100% everyone has this issue certainty. Not everyone who smokes develops lung cancer. It seems as if some people are coming to the conclusion of "well if it's OEP then everyone who ever used it should have this." That's not true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    It's also important for people to realize that a link can exist without 100% everyone has this issue certainty. Not everyone who smokes develops lung cancer. It seems as if some people are coming to the conclusion of "well if it's OEP then everyone who ever used it should have this." That's not true.
    Correct. Many may have stopped taking upon becoming symptomatic. Doctors and hospitals do not typically report liver failure. I will say that my urine became extremely dark once when taking Versa-1. I stopped and it went back to normal.

    -----

    "The Aloha State may be especially sensitive to detecting severe hepatitis outbreaks because only one hospital in the state can handle acute liver failure and transplants. That hospital also happens to be across the street from the state health department, Park said."

    "Hawaii health officials worry there are more hepatitis cases on the mainland that haven’t been connected to the outbreak. Hepatitis is not typically an illness that clinicians report to health departments, especially if they are not aware of a larger problem, Park said."
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    You do realize that this was non-viral non-contagious acute hepatitis we are talking about here right? It's the kind of hepatitis that is brought on usually from heavy alcohol use or drugs uses.So this theory of yours about the environmental contamination in the water and such doesn't make sense because 1) there would probably need to be actual toxicity in the water 2) water apart from well water is tested and treated for toxicity and carcinogens (since Hawaii is part if the US, I'm guessing EPA does regulate their drinking water systems) 3) contamination of the water supply will lead to far more than 30 something cases of illness.
    first off, i dont have any such "theory" that oep is or isnt responsible; the results will determine that. if everything was contained to hawaii, as was the discussion before buick introduced cases in connecticut to this thread, i wouldnt think twice filthy hawaii is the real culprit, and the disproportionate number of cases there (and the fact that many there who didnt take oep got it) speak to my sentiments. that said, its safe to assume water has problems anywhere if it's public. you would be surprized by what government deems safe, and all it takes is that one substance that causes the liver inflammation. hell, anyone who doesnt excrete enough bile can get non-viral hep, so this matter hasnt been determined. i have a friend doing social work in NH; they cant give ANY of their clients tap water because of regular blood testing. you see, they administer so many drugs that they have to test levels regularly, but there were so MANY drugs of such high amounts IN THE TOWN WATER that they would told, in strict confidence by the state, not to let their clients drink it as it would mess up their bloods. THAT WAS NH, where there were undesireable elements in the water and things were tested (and the public wasnt informed)
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    first off, i dont have any such "theory" that oep is or isnt responsible; the results will determine that. if everything was contained to hawaii, as was the discussion before buick introduced cases in connecticut to this thread, i wouldnt think twice filthy hawaii is the real culprit, and the disproportionate number of cases there (and the fact that many there who didnt take oep got it) speak to my sentiments. that said, its safe to assume water has problems anywhere if it's public. you would be surprized by what government deems safe, and all it takes is that one substance that causes the liver inflammation. hell, anyone who doesnt excrete enough bile can get non-viral hep, so this matter hasnt been determined. i have a friend doing social work in NH; they cant give ANY of their clients tap water because of regular blood testing. you see, they administer so many drugs that they have to test levels regularly, but there were so MANY drugs of such high amounts IN THE TOWN WATER that they would told, in strict confidence by the state, not to let their clients drink it as it would mess up their bloods. THAT WAS NH, where there were undesireable elements in the water and things were tested (and the public wasnt informed)
    I'm going to be a dunce and ask, where is NH? New Hampshire?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I'm going to be a dunce and ask, where is NH?
    New Hampshire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    New Hampshire.
    Gotcha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Gotcha.
    apparently, they recycle toilet water and put it into people's taps, but the filters dont filter everything and the drugs get through. hospitals, social workers ect have to flush expired meds ect down the toilet legally (so that junkies dont find them in the rubbish.) i can see why hawaii wouldnt want to reach any determinations, leaving the matter instead to the big boys; you think HAWAII wants that headache on them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    apparently, they recycle toilet water and put it into people's taps, but the filters dont filter everything and the drugs get through. hospitals, social workers ect have to flush expired meds ect down the toilet legally (so that junkies dont find them in the rubbish.) i can see why hawaii wouldnt want to reach any determinations, leaving the matter instead to the big boys; you think HAWAII wants that headache on them?
    Technically all water recirculates but it's only going to be as good as the septic system was designed. I don't know about NH septic systems but for NYC, I know that our poop is a very important element to our septic system as our poop is what does much of the enzymatic actions needed for the earlier phases of our water filtration system as it makes it's way to the river and then we also have a system of "nets" which catches the big masses in the water (toilet water and gutter water all goes down into the same septic system in NYC).

    I'm still thinking that at minimum, a bad batch of OEP is most probably a problem here. At minimum it's probably something to do with OEP because that's just too much of a coincidence when the sample of patients consists of 80+% of them having the common link of using OEP. The remainder could very possibly be tylenol overdose or something as common for all we know (which you would be shocked as to how common this is, tylenol is one heck of a very easy to overdose drug, if you double the recommended dose, that's most probably not good, and could very possibly be lethal). I mean, you can easily be taking tylenol without knowing it since acetaminophen is in a LOT of things including DayQuil I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Wait, what?


    Did you read that before posting it? Or any of this thread for that matter?

    Cliffs:

    Not all of the cases involve OEP.
    Not all of the cases were isolated to Hawaii.
    Not all of the cases are even in the US.
    Not all but most cases! Just an observation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Technically all water recirculates but it's only going to be as good as the septic system was designed. I don't know about NH septic systems but for NYC, I know that our poop is a very important element to our septic system as our poop is what does much of the enzymatic actions needed for the earlier phases of our water filtration system as it makes it's way to the river and then we also have a system of "nets" which catches the big masses in the water (toilet water and gutter water all goes down into the same septic system in NYC).I'm still thinking that at minimum, a bad batch of OEP is most probably a problem here. At minimum it's probably something to do with OEP because that's just too much of a coincidence when the sample of patients consists of 80+% of them having the common link of using OEP. The remainder could very possibly be tylenol overdose or something as common for all we know (which you would be shocked as to how common this is, tylenol is one heck of a very easy to overdose drug, if you double the recommended dose, that's most probably not good, and could very possibly be lethal). I mean, you can easily be taking tylenol without knowing it since acetaminophen is in a LOT of things including DayQuil I think.
    well, in the article, hawaii ruled out the bad batch theory, though i dont know how they did.: "Park said Hawaii health officials cannot precisely identify the "actual issue about the product.""For that, we rely on the FDA for their product testing and their product investigation," she said, although Hawaii officials have ruled out speculation that a bad batch of OxyElite Pro sickened people."http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/news/2013/11/usplabs-to-eliminate-aegeline-from-supplements-am.aspx
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    well, in the article, hawaii ruled out the bad batch theory, though i dont know how they did.: "Park said Hawaii health officials cannot precisely identify the "actual issue about the product.""For that, we rely on the FDA for their product testing and their product investigation," she said, although Hawaii officials have ruled out speculation that a bad batch of OxyElite Pro sickened people."http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/news/2013/11/usplabs-to-eliminate-aegeline-from-supplements-am.aspx
    I wonder what spurred it all of a sudden if it's not an off batch, then again, I don't think anybody has bothered doing 3rd party analysis on the stuff yet :P USPLabs kind of pulled the stuff pretty immediately after it ended up being mainstream news. Or maybe someone effed up on synthesizing some aegeline there (USPLabs has stated as much, that the aegeline they use is synthesized). Sigh, so many possibilities but I doubt that USPLabs is going to really make much of of a statement beyond what they have said in press releases thus far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post

    Why do you keep mis-citing facts and statistics to downplay these issues. I am sure your Google still works so it would be easy to see that as of the end of October they tied 56 cases to OEP and there have been recent reported cases in Ohio, California,Connecticut and someone on here reported New Zealand which I know you saw in another thread. You can be skeptical, blame the FDA and etc. all you want, but at least use accurate data and information when trying assure others everything is a okay or just a misunderstanding by the mean ole FDA.
    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    . . . And a case reported in Ireland. There is much info out there and some explanations regarding the reporting issues and many of the questions asked by same individuals over and over in every thread. Research, understand and make informed decisions.
    Calm down there bud.


    I am not attempting to downplay anything, I don't actively look up this info and only know what I know about it based off of the ones that I read that were posted here. So, the only article I've seen about it is for the one in Connecticut.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there are some in every state, but I haven't seen any accounts about other states with my own eyes.

    Which is all I've said in here.

    Edit: And, on top of that, I even said I don't know for sure if OEP is the cause and that I wouldn't recommend anyone use it until we know more. I stated the fact, because it's a fact, that there were more cases in the same area that weren't related to OEP. And, I never said anything about the FDA having any agenda, its just my opinion that for other people to have the same issue in the same place without the supplement that it may be something else entirely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I wonder what spurred it all of a sudden if it's not an off batch, then again, I don't think anybody has bothered doing 3rd party analysis on the stuff yet :P USPLabs kind of pulled the stuff pretty immediately after it ended up being mainstream news. Or maybe someone effed up on synthesizing some aegeline there (USPLabs has stated as much, that the aegeline they use is synthesized). Sigh, so many possibilities but I doubt that USPLabs is going to really make much of of a statement beyond what they have said in press releases thus far.
    yeah. as general advice, id recommend any supplement company that believes their product is safe to fight issues all the way to the burger. thats what lef did. fda had 55 charges brought up against them. bear in mind FDA has unlimited legal funds (taxpayer). in the end, it cost lef 50million i think but they beat off every single charge, and then the fda (ie taxpayers) had to pay it all back. i personally think dmaa was smeared; ask anyone and they'll tell you about the guy who died. but now its only about blood pressure:DMAA Cleared in Army Deaths, Still Poses Risks
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    When the CDC and FDA find out whats amiss, we'll have our answer. Were trying to solve a crime based only on media reports and, well, that just doesn't seem logical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    apparently, they recycle toilet water and put it into people's taps, but the filters dont filter everything and the drugs get through. hospitals, social workers ect have to flush expired meds ect down the toilet legally (so that junkies dont find them in the rubbish.) i can see why hawaii wouldnt want to reach any determinations, leaving the matter instead to the big boys; you think HAWAII wants that headache on them?
    This whole entire post is just completely ridiculous. Come on man. You're singling out their water supply when soooooo many other states operate the exact same way. No water filtration systems filter out all pharmaceuticals. They waste them into the toilet... seriously come on man. Where do you get your facts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    When the CDC and FDA find out whats amiss, we'll have our answer. Were trying to solve a crime based only on media reports and, well, that just doesn't seem logical.
    I prefer to make my conclusions first and then look at the evidence later, if at all
    phaggy opinions+certainty=douchebag status
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    This whole entire post is just completely ridiculous. Come on man. You're singling out their water supply when soooooo many other states operate the exact same way. No water filtration systems filter out all pharmaceuticals. They waste them into the toilet... seriously come on man. Where do you get your facts?
    I flush many a things down the toilet, just sayin :P
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