HICA

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    HICA


    I have been doing some reading on this and I get a lot of mixed reviews. I have read back a few years and noticed Coop has been hot and cold. I understand that has a lot to do with what was available and when, data wise. I bought a bunch of Amino IV's as the price was too good, and I have some alpamine I have not started. Do I get a sufficient dose running these products? and do we know of any advantages over Leucine? as that seems to be the question going back and fourth.

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    Superior for retaining muscle while dieting. Proven effective in clinical trials unlike its less reliable cousin HMB. This is the metabolite of leucine that will give you the most bang for your buck, without the insulin spike you would get from an equivalent (5g + recommended) dose of leucine.

    Most effective in a caloric deficit or while fasted.

    I retain muscle better using Alphamine over other fat burners I have tried, which is quite a few, so I am a responder/believer in the effects of HICA.

    Love its inclusion in AminoIV.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_P View Post
    I have been doing some reading on this and I get a lot of mixed reviews. I have read back a few years and noticed Coop has been hot and cold. I understand that has a lot to do with what was available and when, data wise. I bought a bunch of Amino IV's as the price was too good, and I have some alpamine I have not started. Do I get a sufficient dose running these products? and do we know of any advantages over Leucine? as that seems to be the question going back and fourth.
    What advantages over Leucine are you asking?
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    Is HICA available in bulk powder? I have not been able to locate it.
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    Hica is an metabolite of leucine. When leucine is ingested - leucine -> KIC -> HICA

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    The idea of why leucine is more effective is because when leucine is ingested you get KIC and KIC increased BCAA oxidation via BCKDH enzyme. It is believed that by supplementing with just HICA you can circumvent the interaction with BCKDH and thus result in more available BCAA for more anabolism.

    We need a study that investigates the interaction between the BCKDH enzyme and HICA in order to have a better understanding of what's going on. Or a study that compared HICA supplementation vs leucine supplementation in resistance trained athletes in order to determine superiority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Is HICA available in bulk powder? I have not been able to locate it.
    HICA Chews by Labrada.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven2lift View Post
    Superior for retaining muscle while dieting. Proven effective in clinical trials unlike its less reliable cousin HMB. This is the metabolite of leucine that will give you the most bang for your buck, without the insulin spike you would get from an equivalent (5g + recommended) dose of leucine.

    Most effective in a caloric deficit or while fasted.




    I retain muscle better using Alphamine over other fat burners I have tried, which is quite a few, so I am a responder/believer in the effects of HICA.

    Love its inclusion in AminoIV.

    What?...
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    So leucine spikes insulin, even in a fasted state?. If that was true, wouldn't I have a huge drop in blood glucose while training, causing significant problems?...
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    Get the Coopster in here!
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    So leucine spikes insulin, even in a fasted state?. If that was true, wouldn't I have a huge drop in blood glucose while training, causing significant problems?...
    ingestion of leucine results in an insulin release but its not like the same kind of insulin release that carbs induce
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    ingestion of leucine results in an insulin release but its not like the same kind of insulin release that carbs induce
    Could you explain that further?. Do you mean it's insignificant?
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    Some readings

    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org.../50/2/353.long
    http://www.jbc.org/content/early/201...bc.M112.344259
    http://www.jbc.org/content/255/15/7340.long
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6769728
    http://endo.endojournals.org/content/144/5/1949.long

    Quote Originally Posted by LayneNorton;
    That is a big stretch to say that leucine increases insulin same as carbs. Absolutely not. The insulin spike is significant but not near as much as an equal carb dose. Additionally, carbohydrate induced insulin response is biphasic, with the stored insulin in the pancreas being released immediately and sometime after that, insulin is produced by the pancreas and keeps being produced until the glucose clears. This secondary release of insulin is actually the comparatively larger release. Amino acids like Leucine only cause the initial release of stored insulin, but there is no biphasic response, no sustained release. So in all actuality, insulin release in response to leucine is very different from carbohydrate. As far as glutamine & glycine restoring glycogen; they can through gluconeogenesis‚?¶ but not as well as carbohydrate. Carbohydrates from diet can get into the bloodstream at a rate of about 50g/hour I believe whereas the maxed out rate of gluconeogenesis is about 5g/hour. So no‚?¶ they don‚??t restore glycogen as fast
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    Seems like a non-issue to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Seems like a non-issue to me.
    it isnt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven2lift View Post
    Superior for retaining muscle while dieting. Proven effective in clinical trials unlike its less reliable cousin HMB. This is the metabolite of leucine that will give you the most bang for your buck, without the insulin spike you would get from an equivalent (5g + recommended) dose of leucine.

    Most effective in a caloric deficit or while fasted.

    I retain muscle better using Alphamine over other fat burners I have tried, which is quite a few, so I am a responder/believer in the effects of HICA.

    Love its inclusion in AminoIV.
    Absolutely agreed, HICA is on my short list of very worthwhile ingredients.
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    Is this link nerd approved?,

    http://examine.com/supplements/Leucic+Acid/
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Is this link nerd approved?,

    http://examine.com/supplements/Leucic+Acid/
    Sure. Sol is good people
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    So it is best to stay with Leucine at this point, correct?.
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    No thats not what he says. What he says is we really dont have enough information currently in order to determine superiority. HICA may be superior or it may not be.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    No thats not what he says. What he says is we really dont have enough information currently in order to determine superiority. HICA may be superior or it may not be.
    Yes, it is inconclusive as whether or not hica is superior. So based on that, and also that there are only a few hica supplements available at a steep price, it would be wise to stick with leucine until more conclusive evidence presents itself.
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    I'll continue to dose 5g leucine when necessary. Dr. Layne Norton agrees with me.
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    Or just get Amino IV and get both at once
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Or just get Amino IV and get both at once
    Touche!

    A tasty way to get in some leucine and extras
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    Interesting study on the combine nature of citrulline and leucine on muscle protein turnover..

    Good time to buy CM and Leucine?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17901164
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21344178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Or just get Amino IV and get both at once
    If there's 5g of leucine in Amino IV, that would come as a surprise to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Interesting study on the combine nature of citrulline and leucine on muscle protein turnover..

    Good time to buy CM and Leucine?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17901164
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21344178
    Thank you
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    If there's 5g of leucine in Amino IV, that would come as a surprise to me
    So there's probably far more of the other EAAs in there than there are BCAAs? That would seem to be the case in my mind if it ends up being less that 5 grams of leucine in the product with the BCAAs supposedly being a 10:1:1 ratio which I presume l-leucine would be the one dosed at 10 parts. Could explain why it's not super foamy like Modern BCAA/BCAA+.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    So there's probably far more of the other EAAs in there than there are BCAAs? That would seem to be the case in my mind if it ends up being less that 5 grams of leucine in the product with the BCAAs supposedly being a 10:1:1 ratio which I presume l-leucine would be the one dosed at 10 parts. Could explain why it's not super foamy like Modern BCAA/BCAA+.
    The ingredients have to be listed in order by weight. So there's obviously more leucine than anything else because it is listed first.

    I'm just saying being 5g would surprise me given the total weight of the product and ingredients in the 2nd blend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    The ingredients have to be listed in order by weight. So there's obviously more leucine than anything else because it is listed first.

    I'm just saying being 5g would surprise me given the total weight of the product and ingredients in the 2nd blend.
    Gotcha.
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