COOP-thoughts on TMG?

Whacked

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Betaine For Muscle Growth And Fat Loss From Ergo Log

Bodybuilders who take a daily 2.5 g betaine for six weeks will improve their body composition. Sports scientists from Coastal Carolina University draw this conclusion in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. But how betaine stimulates muscle build-up and fat breakdown at the same time remains a mystery. Bodybuilders who take a daily 2.5 g betaine for six weeks will improve their body composition. Sports scientists from Coastal Carolina University draw this conclusion in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition.

But how betaine stimulates muscle build-up and fat breakdown at the same time remains a mystery. The reason most nutritional scientists are interested in betaine has to do with the role it plays in converting the potentially dangerous amino acid homocysteine [structural formula shown here] into a harmless compound. The figure below shows this process.

Bodybuilders who take a daily 2.5 g betaine for six weeks will improve their body composition. Sports scientists from Coastal Carolina University draw this conclusion in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. But how betaine stimulates muscle build-up and fat breakdown at the same time remains a mystery.

Homocysteine is further converted into homocysteine thiolactone [formula shown here], which inhibits the synthesis of muscle proteins, probably mainly by interfering with the functioning of the insulin receptor. [[J Mol Endocrinol. 2005 Feb;34(1):119-26.]

Bodybuilders eat large amounts of animal protein, which means they ingest large amounts of methionine. Maybe, the researchers reasoned, that's what causes them produce so much homocysteine thiolactone that betaine supplementation speeds up their muscle growth.

The researchers tested their hypothesis by doing an experiment with two dozen experienced recreational bodybuilders – men aged between 18 and 35. All of the men followed the same intensive training schedule for six weeks. Half of them were given a placebo; the other half took 2.5 g betaine every day. At the end of the six weeks the bodybuilders who had taken betaine had lost a couple of percent fat mass. On top of that, the betaine supplementation also resulted in a significant increase in lean body mass. The scans that the researchers did showed that the bodybuilders in the betaine group had also gained more muscle in their arms.

The amount of homocysteine thiolactone [HCTL] was lower in the betaine users in week 2, week 4 and week 6 of the study in comparison to the amount they had at the start of the study [BL]. The researchers observed no significant effects of betaine on maximal strength or power.

Despite the effects they observed on the concentration of homocysteine thiolactone, the researchers don't think they have uncovered the mechanism through which betaine improves muscle mass and breaks down fat. At the start of the experiment the participants’ concentration of homocysteine thiolactone was 0.028 nanomoles per millilitre. That's low. The range is 0.011 to 0.473 nanomoles per millilitre. "Based on the small differences in HCTL changes, betaine supplementation may have impacted body composition via other mechanisms", the researchers write.

One possibility the researchers suggest is that betaine works as a natural synthol. "Because betaine is a powerful osmolyte, the increases in lean mass may have been due to cellular swelling without an appreciable increase in myofibril protein accretion." The research was financed by DuPont, a manufacturer of betaine. A DuPont Nutrition & Health employee participated in the study. Source: J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2013 Aug 22;10(1):39. Soruce: http://www.ergo-log.com/betaine-gives-bodybuilders-more-muscle-and-less-fat.html
 
Grambo

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There's a good amount of research out on Betaine/TMG. Definitely good stuff and backed by studies which is always nice.

Not coop but throwing my 2 cents in.
 
schizm

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Anyone recall if it was TMG that LG used to put in their lipotropic protein...? I think i recall there being betaine listed and then saying it was good for fat loss...
 
3clipseGT

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Anyone recall if it was TMG that LG used to put in their lipotropic protein...? I think i recall there being betaine listed and then saying it was good for fat loss...
Yea im pretty sure it was betaine and maybe skme green tea polyphenols i think? Not completely sure in the last part.
 

chedapalooza

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Anyone recall if it was TMG that LG used to put in their lipotropic protein...? I think i recall there being betaine listed and then saying it was good for fat loss...
It was betaine I remember that stuff. Bc I always used to think Butane as I guzzled it down .... Bc that's the type of shti I remember. Nothing useful.
 
JudoJosh

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he has posted on TMG before in several post and is in favor for its use. One of the few supplements that have some decent human data supporting it
 

mr.cooper69

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TMG is absolutely legit. Been a fan even before the recent studies. It will improve strength, LBM, and health. And it is dirt cheap. Use it
 
Jiigzz

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Awesome place to replug that SNS will be releasing some in the near future
 
Jiigzz

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Very nice.

I guess I should plug it's in Purus Condense at the amounts shown in the studies. Plus it's tasty :)
;) i love condense. Definitely a top product
 

aceroni

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TMG is absolutely legit. Been a fan even before the recent studies. It will improve strength, LBM, and health. And it is dirt cheap. Use it
Do you recommend a certain source, is betaine hcl good
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Paging Jason
 
bolt10

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Awesome place to replug that SNS will be releasing some in the near future
Stop talking about it until it is out. :D

Love TMG. It is pretty cheap too so no reason to not give it a shot. I've been a big fan since giving it a go at 2.5g after talking to the TMG genius of the board (Zir) about it last year.
 
jbryand101b

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TMG is absolutely legit. Been a fan even before the recent studies. It will improve strength, LBM, and health. And it is dirt cheap. Use it
Yup, just order a bottle of tmg, 1g/cap 100caps for cheap
 
jbryand101b

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Very nice.

I guess I should plug it's in Purus Condense at the amounts shown in the studies. Plus it's tasty :)
Condense Is the best BEST tasting pre w/o on the market, though cotton candy focus xt is neck n neck for taste with it.
No cotton candy flav condense.
 
schizm

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Next purchase will be Condense & Live Long's 100g bulk TMG for non workout days...until SNS releases our TMG...boom! Ballin!
 
Jiigzz

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Stop talking about it until it is out. :D

Love TMG. It is pretty cheap too so no reason to not give it a shot. I've been a big fan since giving it a go at 2.5g after talking to the TMG genius of the board (Zir) about it last year.
Lol but its so exciting!!
 

aceroni

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How long do you typically use tmg for? The studies were six week trials, correct? Would there be any benefit or negatives to running it longer?
 

snagencyV2.0

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Awesome place to replug that SNS will be releasing some in the near future
wonderful place to plug the fact I love our version in Max Pump, that we have had out for awhile now :p

great pricing at Nutra too

Redefine Nutrition (FinaFlex) Max Pump (120 Capsules): Discount Max Pump Supplements

How long do you typically use tmg for? The studies were six week trials, correct? Would there be any benefit or negatives to running it longer?
nothing definitive to my knowledge, seems to work better the longer you use it tho (to a point of course)

I would say 12-16 weeks cycles, then 4-6 week break
 
kbayne

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De__eB

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wonderful place to plug the fact I love our version in Max Pump, that we have had out for awhile now :p

great pricing at Nutra too

Redefine Nutrition (FinaFlex) Max Pump (120 Capsules): Discount Max Pump Supplements
Do you guys license betaine nitrate from Thermolife? Looks like the only product out there with betaine nitrate, but I try to only buy to buy nitrate products that aren't patented (Iforce potassium nitrate) or from brands who pay their licensing fees.
 

snagencyV2.0

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Do you guys license betaine nitrate from Thermolife? Looks like the only product out there with betaine nitrate, but I try to only buy to buy nitrate products that aren't patented (Iforce potassium nitrate) or from brands who pay their licensing fees.
that's an issue that I really do not delve into, as there is litigation in process over some disputed factors

to answer your question tho, no we license nothing from TL
 
Whacked

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Sounds like a cool product! I wonder though if using TMG in a different chemical form (in this case "nitrate") changes it's nature and attributes and hence, it's health benefits? Methylation, detoxifying, increasing SamE, homocysteine reduction, etc

wonderful place to plug the fact I love our version in Max Pump, that we have had out for awhile now :p great pricing at Nutra too Redefine Nutrition (FinaFlex) Max Pump (120 Capsules): Discount Max Pump Supplements
 

snagencyV2.0

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Sounds like a cool product! I wonder though if using TMG in a different chemical form (in this case "nitrate") changes it's nature and attributes and hence, it's health benefits? Methylation, detoxifying, increasing SamE, homocysteine reduction, etc
sure changing the form will alter nature & attributes, tho I have no clue honestly on what those differences are in the specific categories you mention
 
schizm

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sure changing the form will alter nature & attributes, tho I have no clue honestly on what those differences are in the specific categories you mention
Would you happen to know if the 4 caps/day provide the 2.5g/day that's recommended for betaine, by chance?
 

mr.cooper69

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Betaine nitrate would be 117:62

1960mg Betaine
1039mg Nitrate
After one of their reps stated that 1g nitrates is completely safe, snags later clarified that they aren't using a 1:1 salt (a good thing). So I think it's proprietary, for the better in this case.
 

De__eB

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After one of their reps stated that 1g nitrates is completely safe, snags later clarified that they aren't using a 1:1 salt (a good thing). So I think it's proprietary, for the better in this case.
That's not really labelled accurately then, but...whatever...
 
schizm

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After one of their reps stated that 1g nitrates is completely safe, snags later clarified that they aren't using a 1:1 salt (a good thing). So I think it's proprietary, for the better in this case.
Any thoughts/guesses that with the betaine being attached to the nitrate, if the betaine will still have the same effect that the TMG gave in the studies...?
 

snagencyV2.0

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After one of their reps stated that 1g nitrates is completely safe, snags later clarified that they aren't using a 1:1 salt (a good thing). So I think it's proprietary, for the better in this case.
yes thank you, i can neither confirm nor deny any suggested or hypothesized amount

Any thoughts/guesses that with the betaine being attached to the nitrate, if the betaine will still have the same effect that the TMG gave in the studies...?
why wouldn't it? maybe i miss the point of your question
 
schizm

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yes thank you, i can neither confirm nor deny any suggested or hypothesized amount

why wouldn't it? maybe i miss the point of your question
In regards to the exchange you had with whacked at the top of the page, it came across as BN might not have the same effect in the body as straight TMG...?
 

snagencyV2.0

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In regards to the exchange you had with whacked at the top of the page, it came across as BN might not have the same effect in the body as straight TMG...?
oh i see, i am clarified now and notice what you say
thanks
 

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