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    I have been told Xgels have a nice synergistic effect with AAS/PH been thinking about logging them with a nice stack. I think Spaniard does have a point when it comes to a lot of users as they do not have pct figured out and loose a lot of their gains from cycle. But a veteran should not be loosing those gains other then glycogen and water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    I have been told Xgels have a nice synergistic effect with AAS/PH been thinking about logging them with a nice stack. I think Spaniard does have a point when it comes to a lot of users as they do not have pct figured out and loose a lot of their gains from cycle. But a veteran should not be loosing those gains other then glycogen and water.
    Having been with CEL and SNS for many years I cant tell you how many times ive seen people lose their gains by slackibg on diet and training in pct- its probably the number 1 mistake

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Having been with CEL and SNS for many years I cant tell you how many times ive seen people lose their gains by slackibg on diet and training in pct- its probably the number 1 mistake
    Oh I get your point and I am sure of it! that is why I qualified my statement with "should not" because there will always be some even with the ones that should know better.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Im at 5 years training and I can say 6 to 10 is decent for me aswell. I miss the doms I got from my first atg squat haha! Still get doms but not that 4 days bow legged walk kinda doms.
    Haha I hear you! A good 20 rep finisher atg will still having me pulling myself out of my car with the help of both arms 3 days later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    Yea, your avatar and stats indicate that even with all those hormones you ran/run, that you know exuberant amounts of what you're preaching here.
    Um yea about not immediately insulting me after my post...

    I mean how can you think attacking my results in a picture via assumption is not insulting. I started at 168 lbs 4 years ago. I was also immobilized for 10 months in that time frame. In my eyes, if you hadn't assumed you would know for a 6'6" ecto that's probably not all that bad. I am 208 @ -10% and have been 225 all natty at one point before the immobilization. I've done one cycle before my current DMZ cycle and it didn't go as well as it could have. Not a failure... but a "first time" like many guys have.

    And now there is a wager you created? Haha that is actually kind of a cool idea. Why don't you send me some Xgels instead when I'm recovered and we can duke it out in a way your company would love you for haha. Two dude bragging about how much better they gain on xgels. Or I can just run DMZ again and well all see what happens haha. Hope you can gain 20lbs on those things! Jk I'm done with with the arguing though, man. And I would really do the xgels thing if you wanted... only good things can come of it for you. Its not like you are going to be able to accurately gauge progress between our extremely dif body types, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    Um yea about not immediately insulting me after my post...

    I mean how can you think attacking my results in a picture via assumption is not insulting. I started at 168 lbs 4 years ago. I was also immobilized for 10 months in that time frame. In my eyes, if you hadn't assumed you would know for a 6'6" ecto that's probably not all that bad. I am 208 @ -10% and have been 225 at one point before the immobilization. I've done one cycle before my current DMZ cycle and it didn't go well haha

    And now there is a wager you created? Haha that is actually kind of a cool idea. Why don't you send me some Xgels instead when I'm recovered and we can duke it out in a way your company would love you for haha. Two dude bragging about how much better they gain on xgels. Or I can just run DMZ again and well all see what happens haha. Hope you can gain 20lbs on those things! Jk I'm done with with the arguing though, man. And I would really do the xgels thing if you wanted... only good things can come of it for you. Its not like you are going to be able to accurately gauge progress between our extremely dif body types, though.
    Hey I called dibs on logging first!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post

    Hey I called dibs on logging first!!!
    Haha no sweat man. But company reps should really start hosting competition oriented logs. What a PR dream...
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    Was gonna stay out, considering i'm an SNS rep, but without actually trying X-gels your assumptions are little more than guesses. When run properly, (including LCLT/ baby aspirin and GMS (baby aspirin to inhibit the COX1 pathway; but not COX2) leads to increases in PGF 2 alpha and PGE2 which increase protein synthesis. The PGF 2 alpha pathway is increased with a COX1 inhibitor (hence why one is suggested on cycle) and in the presence of exercise.

    Also important is that you avoid COX2 inhibitors like ibuprofen because that inhibits COX2 which is one of the pathways it is reliant on. As an aside, because it works by increasing PGE2, it may promote hair growth in balding males.

    I'm confident that if you ran it in this way that you would absolutely see results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Was gonna stay out, considering i'm an SNS rep, but without actually trying X-gels your assumptions are little more than guesses. When run properly, (including LCLT/ baby aspirin and GMS (baby aspirin to inhibit the COX1 pathway; but not COX2) leads to increases in PGF 2 alpha and PGE2 which increase protein synthesis. The PGF 2 alpha pathway is increased with a COX1 inhibitor (hence why one is suggested on cycle) and in the presence of exercise.

    Also important is that you avoid COX2 inhibitors like ibuprofen because that inhibits COX2 which is one of the pathways it is reliant on. As an aside, because it works by increasing PGE2, it may promote hair growth in balding males.

    I'm confident that if you ran it in this way that you would absolutely see results.
    How do you think it would stack with Dermacrine then? I'm planning on either doing derm or anabeta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Was gonna stay out, considering i'm an SNS rep, but without actually trying X-gels your assumptions are little more than guesses. When run properly, (including LCLT/ baby aspirin and GMS (baby aspirin to inhibit the COX1 pathway; but not COX2) leads to increases in PGF 2 alpha and PGE2 which increase protein synthesis. The PGF 2 alpha pathway is increased with a COX1 inhibitor (hence why one is suggested on cycle) and in the presence of exercise.

    Also important is that you avoid COX2 inhibitors like ibuprofen because that inhibits COX2 which is one of the pathways it is reliant on. As an aside, because it works by increasing PGE2, it may promote hair growth in balding males.

    I'm confident that if you ran it in this way that you would absolutely see results.
    Interesting. Sounds good to me but I don't think anyone in this thread ever said anything about not seeing results.

    Sounds like a great natty product and possibly the best way to get your feet wet with cycling. Its the comparison to mild, methylated PHs that seems like a bold statement. Can you vouch for that, personally?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    Interesting. Sounds good to me but I don't think anyone in this thread ever said anything about not seeing results.

    Sounds like a great natty product and possibly the best way to get your feet wet with cycling. Its the comparison to mild, methylated PHs that seems like a bold statement. Can you vouch for that, personally?
    As you said, it depends on what you consider mild. I would consider a 1-dhea as an entry PH so I would compare my results with that. But once you start going to stronger milder PH's then the comparison starts to end, but of course then you are entering into a realm where hormones are affected, and competing with that impossible
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    As you said, it depends on what you consider mild. I would consider a 1-dhea as an entry PH so I would compare my results with that. But once you start going to stronger milder PH's then the comparison starts to end, but of course then you are entering into a realm where hormones are affected, and competing with that impossible
    That's my exact point. I think you are spot on man. Anything that would require a SERM is just not comparable... and there's no shame in that, its not supposed to be. I got completely lit up in here for speaking that point earlier. You seem to be far more level headed about it.

    Xgels have def caught my attention. Not having to go through PCT even after lower end PHs gains is priceless for an avid lifter... and maybe even better for a noob. I'd still like to hear from someone who has ran xgels and a mild, non methyl PH, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    I'd still like to hear from someone who has ran xgels and a mild, non methyl PH, though.
    I have
    well, ArA anyway, when the compound first came out under MN..
    I hesitate to respond in my rep capacity (which is an unfortunate thing too as a sidenote - just because someone is with xyz company does not necessarily make everything they say biased, it just happens quite a bit is all )..but honestly, I never got anything much out of original formula

    and I make note, I was natty trainer at that point, able to squeeze anything out of almost ANY sup thru my accompanying peripheral regimens..

    conversely, when I first ran 2-step dhea analogs and whatnot with PP, I was able to tell definitive differences, and very rapidly..
    of course, harsher things (methylated and whatnot) followed, and were even more notable ....

    just sharing my own anecdotal experiences, no hate or denigration to anyone or any product
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    That's my exact point. I think you are spot on man. Anything that would require a SERM is just not comparable... and there's no shame in that, its not supposed to be. I got completely lit up in here for speaking that point earlier. You seem to be far more level headed about it.

    Xgels have def caught my attention. Not having to go through PCT even after lower end PHs gains is priceless for an avid lifter... and maybe even better for a noob. I'd still like to hear from someone who has ran xgels and a mild, non methyl PH, though.
    I like Ara and I feel it complements any natty stack but, like R1balla said, if you want PH gains, then take a PH
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    I have
    well, ArA anyway, when the compound first came out under MN..
    I hesitate to respond in my rep capacity (which is an unfortunate thing too as a sidenote - just because someone is with xyz company does not necessarily make everything they say biased, it just happens quite a bit is all )..but honestly, I never got anything much out of original formula

    and I make note, I was natty trainer at that point, able to squeeze anything out of almost ANY sup thru my accompanying peripheral regimens..

    conversely, when I first ran 2-step dhea analogs and whatnot with PP, I was able to tell definitive differences, and very rapidly..
    of course, harsher things (methylated and whatnot) followed, and were even more notable ....

    just sharing my own anecdotal experiences, no hate or denigration to anyone or any product
    None taken snags

    All anecdotal (whether they're a rep or not) is valuable to anyone looking to experience a product and seeking differing view points
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    That's my exact point. I think you are spot on man. Anything that would require a SERM is just not comparable... and there's no shame in that, its not supposed to be. I got completely lit up in here for speaking that point earlier. You seem to be far more level headed about it.

    Xgels have def caught my attention. Not having to go through PCT even after lower end PHs gains is priceless for an avid lifter... and maybe even better for a noob. I'd still like to hear from someone who has ran xgels and a mild, non methyl PH, though.
    No one lit you up, you're being a sensitive Sally
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    As you said, it depends on what you consider mild. I would consider a 1-dhea as an entry PH so I would compare my results with that. But once you start going to stronger milder PH's then the comparison starts to end, but of course then you are entering into a realm where hormones are affected, and competing with that impossible
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    No one lit you up, you're being a sensitive Sally
    "Sensitive Sally" would be reverting to attacks rather than a civil debate. Its called a defense mechanism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    Yea, your avatar and stats indicate that even with all those hormones you ran/run, that you know exuberant amounts of what you're preaching here.
    Nothing constructive here at all. Just a rep being sensitive, making accusations and then finding out his accusations were wrong.

    And Jiigzz is right dude, it is pretty much impossible. You take 2 identical twin bodybuilders, give one Xgels and the other a methylated steroid and it will be a land slide. If you still disagree then you need to swallow some pride. We all believe in ourselves and the products we support but be logical about it. Aim high but don't spew stuff like that.

    I changed my avi for you. I hope I can participate in this topic, now. Sorry I have no genetics and am 1,000 ft tall haha. I am happy though for 3 years of training. I'm not here to impress you, anyhow.

    And no I'm not angry dude. I have no problem with you at all. Wish you all the best. I just don't like people that don't know me passing judgement. Do you? I doubt it....
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    Changed my Avi too.
    Remember why you started.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    Changed my Avi too.
    Oooo la la (slight homo)

    Nice sig BTW, too. Makes me want to lift.
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    Interesting read here..
    Love my X-gels..
    Been thinking about these prohormones and learning about cycling etc..
    Not quite ready I feel i have lots of natty gains to achieve.. its the "I want it now" feeling that will 100% bite me in the ass that wants to try the hardcore stuff..

    Right now I'm bulking natty and the X-gels are a great part of my stack I am keeping a log/diary on paper.
    After I'm done bulking I was thinking of trying that LG Sciences cutting andro kit which has Epiandro, 17 proandro, and 1 andro and also form xt for the pct to keep the gains..
    Not sure if using PH on a cut would be the best idea to start with but these legal pro hormone threads have piqued my interest lol
    Maybe have to give it some time though..
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    Yea honestly, its better to just cut to nice, low bf naturally and then use the help to put on some noticeable, vascular mass.

    I made sure to cut to 8% all natural (and plenty of Alphamine haha) before I started my bulk with DMZ. The 20+lbs I was up at one point made it pretty difficult not to smile in the mirror.

    PS-Dont run DMZ for a while haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    "Sensitive Sally" would be reverting to attacks rather than a civil debate. Its called a defense mechanism.



    Nothing constructive here at all. Just a rep being sensitive, making accusations and then finding out his accusations were wrong.

    And Jiigzz is right dude, it is pretty much impossible. You take 2 identical twin bodybuilders, give one Xgels and the other a methylated steroid and it will be a land slide. If you still disagree then you need to swallow some pride. We all believe in ourselves and the products we support but be logical about it. Aim high but don't spew stuff like that.

    I changed my avi for you. I hope I can participate in this topic, now. Sorry I have no genetics and am 1,000 ft tall haha. I am happy though for 3 years of training. I'm not here to impress you, anyhow.

    And no I'm not angry dude. I have no problem with you at all. Wish you all the best. I just don't like people that don't know me passing judgement. Do you? I doubt it....
    You're being dramatic, which is why I haven't engaged in any further comments. The challenge still stands you on Halo vs me on X-Gels. If you believe so firmly in your stance sack up let's do it. If not, drop it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    You're being dramatic, which is why I haven't engaged in any further comments. The challenge still stands you on Halo vs me on X-Gels. If you believe so firmly in your stance sack up let's do it. If not, drop it
    What about X gels vs something like androhard haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosemont83 View Post
    Love my X-gels..
    Been thinking about these prohormones and learning about cycling etc..
    Not quite ready I feel i have lots of natty gains to achieve..
    nice
    I applaud the intelligent course, as it is really THAT simple
    if you have not mastered the natty realm & diet, then venture not into steroid-land
    easier said than done? well probably, since noobs jump off into methylated orals ~21 yrs of age (or younger!) every day..
    is why I applaud you friend, for taking the intelligent road
    cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    What about X gels vs something like androhard haha
    Which version my buddy at the station got yolked on that ****. Put his T levels through the roof. I always debated running one of the "Andros" by the time I thought I wanted to bye bye PP

    Sounds hilarious ^^^ lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    Which version my buddy at the station got yolked on that ****. Put his T levels through the roof. I always debated running one of the "Andros" by the time I thought I wanted to bye bye PP

    Sounds hilarious ^^^ lol
    Still considered a mild ph in terms of shut down

    Are u guys talking mild in means of gains or shut down?
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    Still considered a mild ph in terms of shut down

    Are u guys talking mild in means of gains or shut down?
    Results man, it always comes down to the results right? I'm talking about any PH that elicits roughly 10lbs.

    Btw, I've seen you talking about running the gels, I have a lot. I've always wanted to run derma, see where I'm going with this
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    You're being dramatic, which is why I haven't engaged in any further comments. The challenge still stands you on Halo vs me on X-Gels. If you believe so firmly in your stance sack up let's do it. If not, drop it
    How about the 17+lbs I'm holding right now? Good luck, boss. And I gotta say as a rep you make me not want to buy SNS stuff. Jiigzz seems way cooler haha I'll prob still try them thanks to his descriptive post. He came in with science and that's a universal language of facts, my friend.

    So yea, its dropped. Good day sir!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Results man, it always comes down to the results right? I'm talking about any PH that elicits roughly 10lbs.

    Btw, I've seen you talking about running the gels, I have a lot. I've always wanted to run derma, see where I'm going with this
    i log if you log?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    How about the 17+lbs I'm holding right now? Good luck, boss. And I gotta say as a rep you make me not want to buy SNS stuff. Jiigzz seems way cooler haha I'll prob still try them thanks to his descriptive post. He came in with science and that's a universal language of facts, my friend.

    So yea, its dropped. Good day sir!
    The 17+ lbs you're holding now is from DMZ.

    This is very black and white and not hard to understand. I'm saying that X-Gels in a 50 day cycle can net someone the same results as a PH that will elicit gains of 10lbs. People see what 8-12 on halo right? Then lose a few in PCT. The gains made with X-Gels aren't lost during a recovery period and there's no negative hormone effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    Results man, it always comes down to the results right? I'm talking about any PH that elicits roughly 10lbs
    That sounds respectable, man. I'm being honest when I say that I think I'm going to pick some up in a little while. I would like to go back to gaining naturally for another year or two after this cycle.
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    Damn dude... just tried to be cool and read that last post. What gives?

    Edit: I see you deleted the paragraph so thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    That sounds respectable, man. I'm being honest when I say that I think I'm going to pick some up in a little while. I would like to go back to gaining naturally for another year or two after this cycle.
    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Damn dude... just tried to be cool and read that last post. What gives?
    All good bro, all good. Try them out you'll certainly enjoy them
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    i log if you log?
    Straight across? Yours for mine? That sounds weird... I'll pm you lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    That sounds respectable, man. I'm being honest when I say that I think I'm going to pick some up in a little while. I would like to go back to gaining naturally for another year or two after this cycle.
    Also just a heads up a few dudes here have ran them PCT and LOVED it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    Also just a heads up a few dudes here have ran them PCT and LOVED it!
    Damnit guys.... don't do that to me haha. My cabinets are full!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Damnit guys.... don't do that to me haha. My cabinets are full!
    I bought a small storage cabinet for all mine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    I bought a small storage cabinet for all mine
    Like a POD? Deliver it right out front? Haha
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    Spaniards a top dude; he's just standing by the product

    I was looking forward to running androhard and mass as well. Huge bummer about PP.
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