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    If you want ph gains then take a ph. Don't expect to take a supplement and get ph gains. End of story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Ill give them a shot one day.

    I did a Triazole/ Activate Xtreme that gave me more strength than a DHEA run so you aren't really creating miracles for me.

    I place 2 step conversion DHEA at the extreme bottom of the pile of "phs". So to say they are comparable to PHs in general is inaccurate.
    You have the wrong perspective on these types of hormones. While these DHEA PH's can seem weaker and are in most cases compared to the active steroids on the market. But if dosed higher they can be very effective on a bulk. If dosed per bottle directions they are a great starting stack.


    Also on a side note I personally think 1andro has some direct activity which would only be a 1 step conversion to an active.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    You have the wrong perspective on these types of hormones. While these DHEA PH's can seem weaker and are in most cases compared to the active steroids on the market. But if dosed higher they can be very effective on a bulk. If dosed per bottle directions they are a great starting stack.

    Also on a side note I personally think 1andro has some direct activity which would only be a 1 step conversion to an active.
    Yeah this actually. But the cost:benefit ratio increases as well lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Yeah this actually. But the cost:benefit ratio increases as well lol
    This can be very true as high dosed 1dhea had rather amazing results for me but it did have some rather strong lethargy like the old 1ad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    This can be very true as high dosed 1dhea had rather amazing results for me but it did have some rather strong lethargy like the old 1ad.
    Agreed! I dosed 1 and 4 higher than recommended and got rather tired but the results were worth it imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    If you want ph gains then take a ph. Don't expect to take a supplement and get ph gains. End of story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    You have the wrong perspective on these types of hormones. While these DHEA PH's can seem weaker and are in most cases compared to the active steroids on the market. But if dosed higher they can be very effective on a bulk. If dosed per bottle directions they are a great starting stack.

    Also on a side note I personally think 1andro has some direct activity which would only be a 1 step conversion to an active.
    I'm actually not sure about the 1-ad you may be right. Regardless, I've taken double the "recommended dose" for 6 weeks and was not very impressed. That's $240 of 1ad/4ad at 2x dose for 6 weeks if the bottles are $40 each (sometimes they are a bit cheaper). I don't knock them for a beginner cycle although I was a beginner at the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    If you want ph gains then take a ph. Don't expect to take a supplement and get ph gains. End of story.
    So much this... copious amounts of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    OP you should consider an X-gel run before running a PH. The strength gains are comparable to that of a mild PH cycle.
    Everyone keeps mentioning X gels, So how long do you run them, what PCT and what kind of side affects am I looking at. I'm completely new to this side of the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmm004 View Post
    Everyone keeps mentioning X gels, So how long do you run them, what PCT and what kind of side affects am I looking at. I'm completely new to this side of the game.
    X-Gels aren't hormonal brotha man. No PCT, no negative side effects that are found with hormonal compounds. There are additional supps taken with them to increase effectiveness such as LCLT, GMS etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmm004 View Post
    Everyone keeps mentioning X gels, So how long do you run them, what PCT and what kind of side affects am I looking at. I'm completely new to this side of the game.
    You asked about a PH that would give you above natural gains. X-gels are not that. They are a natural product that are supposed to mimic PH "like" gains and require no PCT because they are not hormonal.

    If you want PH gains you have to take a PH.

    That being said you may gain something from them. But once you take an actual proven PH, any product that does not require PCT will seem like bringing a squirt gun to fire hose fight.
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    How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

    Legal prohormones on the market now are:

    1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
    4-Andro - bulking
    19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
    Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
    5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
    11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

    That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

    Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LG Sciences View Post
    How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

    Legal prohormones on the market now are:

    1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
    4-Andro - bulking
    19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
    Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
    5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
    11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

    That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

    Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.

    I'm looking for mass and strength I'm not to worried about being "cut" I'm a nice sized guy but I'm not as strong as I would like. Also I have parts of my body that I'm not happy with that I'm currently changing my WO routine to focus more on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LG Sciences View Post
    How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

    Legal prohormones on the market now are:

    1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
    4-Andro - bulking
    19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
    Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
    5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
    11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

    That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

    Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.
    Over all I would like to gain about an inch on my caves, an Inch to 2 on my bis and tris, and about 2-3 inches on my chest. And yes I know this isn't an over the night goal, but for right now that is what I want. Plus I would like to add 40-60 lbs on bench and 20-30 on straight bar curl. Legs are not a high priority to me due to a huge knee injury, (but yes I do still work them out).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmm004 View Post

    Over all I would like to gain about an inch on my caves, an Inch to 2 on my bis and tris, and about 2-3 inches on my chest. And yes I know this isn't an over the night goal, but for right now that is what I want. Plus I would like to add 40-60 lbs on bench and 20-30 on straight bar curl. Legs are not a high priority to me due to a huge knee injury, (but yes I do still work them out).
    That's multiple cycles for most people my friend. And those gains would have to be from something that DEFINITELY requires a SERM. Period. That's a big transformation, man. Multiple years for an already, somewhat avid lifter.

    Doing a real PH (mild-methylated) cycle is not going to put you close to that LBM wise. Maybe strength wise with the right compound like Epi or even heavier but usually you won't stay that strong after youre off again.

    There's no secret to big mass and strength. It takes a long goddamn time and a sh*t ton of delicious animals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    You asked about a PH that would give you above natural gains. X-gels are not that. They are a natural product that are supposed to mimic PH "like" gains and require no PCT because they are not hormonal.

    If you want PH gains you have to take a PH.

    That being said you may gain something from them. But once you take an actual proven PH, any product that does not require PCT will seem like bringing a squirt gun to fire hose fight.
    Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.
    Please dude... Don't even use SD in a sentence with that. Of course they aren't comparing a natty product to SD, its one of the harshest PHs ever. Hdrol is a true "mild" PH and I would be effin shocked if x-gels came close. I'm not talking about the next gen DHEA products that barely require PCT. I've double dosed them for 6 weeks and Hdrol made me twice as strong and gain twice as much at 75 mg.

    So X-Gels give much the same results as the less effective versions of 1-andro and 4-ad? Maybe you can preach that and people will buy it. I would not use the word "mild", though. I'd use "weaker PH" (which still give results, though). Sorry, just being honest.

    Hell, I can gain 6 lbs taking nothing in a 6 week cycle's length (.75 lbs a week is what I generally bulk at naturally, anyway. I used to do a whole pound). Would it be the same amount of muscle as if I did a true PH? Hell no. Sorry, but I will never believe you that a natural product with "NO PCT NEEDED" will give you anywhere close to the results of something that pumps synthetic hormones through your body.

    That's just common sense to me. Not trying to bash on X-gels, unless you tell me they do something that they won't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.
    What mild ph you referring to? Curious
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    I'm curious too
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    X-Gels = Hot Dog
    Mild PH = Quarter Pounder
    Designer Steroid = Double Quarter Pounder w/ Potatoes
    Injectable = New York strip with loaded baked potato
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    Nice analogy.

    My suggestion for a mild PH stack that will add that would be:

    1-Andro AMS, LG, Forerunner or Finiflex - choose sublingual tablets, sublingual liquid, liquid capsules, capsules
    Epiandro - LG - EPIANDRO liquid

    PCT - take your choice with anything that has 3,5-diene-dione in it. Form-XT is ours (tabs or liquid), Reboot, PCT, Erase etc...

    These two promote a lot of strength and decent mass. Obviously you need to eat well and lift heavy.

    Also, you have to realize that every person is different, so what one responds to is not what everyone responds to...
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    Shoot I'll log the 6 mass!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Please dude... Don't even use SD in a sentence with that. Of course they aren't comparing a natty product to SD, its one of the harshest PHs ever. Hdrol is a true "mild" PH and I would be effin shocked if x-gels came close. I'm not talking about the next gen DHEA products that barely require PCT. I've double dosed them for 6 weeks and Hdrol made me twice as strong and gain twice as much at 75 mg.

    So X-Gels give much the same results as the less effective versions of 1-andro and 4-ad? Maybe you can preach that and people will buy it. I would not use the word "mild", though. I'd use "weaker PH" (which still give results, though). Sorry, just being honest.

    Hell, I can gain 6 lbs taking nothing in a 6 week cycle's length (.75 lbs a week is what I generally bulk at naturally, anyway. I used to do a whole pound). Would it be the same amount of muscle as if I did a true PH? Hell no. Sorry, but I will never believe you that a natural product with "NO PCT NEEDED" will give you anywhere close to the results of something that pumps synthetic hormones through your body.

    That's just common sense to me. Not trying to bash on X-gels, unless you tell me they do something that they won't.
    Yea, your avatar and stats indicate that even with all those hormones you ran/run, that you know exuberant amounts of what you're preaching here. You don't have to believe what I'm saying, the results speak for themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    Please dude... Don't even use SD in a sentence with that. Of course they aren't comparing a natty product to SD, its one of the harshest PHs ever. Hdrol is a true "mild" PH and I would be effin shocked if x-gels came close. I'm not talking about the next gen DHEA products that barely require PCT. I've double dosed them for 6 weeks and Hdrol made me twice as strong and gain twice as much at 75 mg.

    So X-Gels give much the same results as the less effective versions of 1-andro and 4-ad? Maybe you can preach that and people will buy it. I would not use the word "mild", though. I'd use "weaker PH" (which still give results, though). Sorry, just being honest.

    Hell, I can gain 6 lbs taking nothing in a 6 week cycle's length (.75 lbs a week is what I generally bulk at naturally, anyway. I used to do a whole pound). Would it be the same amount of muscle as if I did a true PH? Hell no. Sorry, but I will never believe you that a natural product with "NO PCT NEEDED" will give you anywhere close to the results of something that pumps synthetic hormones through your body.

    That's just common sense to me. Not trying to bash on X-gels, unless you tell me they do something that they won't.
    How tall are you? I only ask because you CAN add more size on a bigger frame. Im 6'5 and I gained 30 lbs my second year and the calipers measured a 2% bf gain.

    Significant size compaired to the guys who gain 6 to 10 lbs a year lean at 5'5.
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    a significant point to be made in this conversation (not pointing any fingers at all), is that FAR too many guys jump straight to PH/steroid use, BEFORE they have mastered all the steps necessary to TRUE growth, in the natural realm..
    not only speaking of whatever natty supps can be run to aid in the process, but in training itself (ie technique), or even more importantly - dietary considerations
    very few ppl know how to eat....take all that ignorance into the realm of hormonal product, and you will not come even close to getting all you can out of hormonal boost

    you start out crawling...then learn to walk..before you can even think about running....
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    a significant point to be made in this conversation (not pointing any fingers at all), is that FAR too many guys jump straight to PH/steroid use, BEFORE they have mastered all the steps necessary to TRUE growth, in the natural realm..
    not only speaking of whatever natty supps can be run to aid in the process, but in training itself (ie technique), or even more importantly - dietary considerations
    very few ppl know how to eat....take all that ignorance into the realm of hormonal product, and you will not come even close to getting all you can out of hormonal boost

    you start out crawling...then learn to walk..before you can even think about running....
    Great post, ya dirt bag
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Great post, ya dirt bag
    even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in awhile
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Yea, your avatar and stats indicate that even with all those hormones you ran/run, that you know exuberant amounts of what you're preaching here. You don't have to believe what I'm saying, the results speak for themselves.
    Please don't act like because you saw one log that I ran "all those" compounds. You dont have to be an A-hole dude, you know zero about me. Sorry you didnt like my opinion that X-gels wont give you the same results as something that requires a SERM, but you can at least be civil about it and not attack me with assumptions and defense mechs. I even said like 3 times... "not to bash" and "just being honest". You on the other hand should not be representing a company when you say sh*t like that.

    BTW That avi is all natural, prick. And I was repped twice for that post. Try to not judge so much. It gets you nowhere.

    I was 225 all natty before my first cycle. I ran hdrol as a noob and f*cking it all up, broke even and just now I ran DMZ and gained 20 lbs, 18 of which I'm holding strong after almost 2 weeks of PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    How tall are you? I only ask because you CAN add more size on a bigger frame. Im 6'5 and I gained 30 lbs my second year and the calipers measured a 2% bf gain.

    Significant size compaired to the guys who gain 6 to 10 lbs a year lean at 5'5.
    6-10 in a year is even pretty good for me at this point. I'm 6'6". I know what you mean too, I gained like 30 lbs my first 2.5 years. Then lost it all from Arthritis in my spine and ankles. I'm almost back to wear I was all natty about 2 years ago but this time I have WAY less bf and I'm stronger.

    Good insight though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    I was 225 all natty before my first cycle. I ran hdrol as a noob and f*cking it all up, broke even and just now I ran DMZ and gained 20 lbs, 18 of which I'm holding strong after almost 2 weeks of PCT.
    This is the only part of that post that I'll give time to. You ran Hdrol as a noob and effed it all up. That wouldn't have happened with X-Gels, which is why when someone is looking for a mild ph, X-Gels not needing a PCT etc is a fantastic alternative .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    This is the only part of that post that I'll give time to. You ran Hdrol as a noob and effed it all up. That wouldn't have happened with X-Gels, which is why when someone is looking for a mild ph, X-Gels not needing a PCT etc is a fantastic alternative .
    I never said it wasn't a fantastic alternative. I did say that it would not yield the same gains as something that would require a PCT. You seem to be just grabbing the facts what you want to hear and disregarding my whole point and that they're not the same as a mild ph.


    And seriously, you're going to take one look at my avatar and decide that I don't know anything. Or maybe you went into my threads and saw that I ran a cycle once. Either way I think you would have been better off sticking to your argument with logic instead of insulting me. For your information I actually went through a very traumatic event after getting to 225 all natural and I lost close to 30 pounds. I happen to be very happy with how I look right now considering I have still gained 40 pounds of LBM in the 4 years including the entire year where I was almost bedridden. So cut on me all you want all I'm ever going to do is compare my results to my results
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    6-10 in a year is even pretty good for me at this point. I'm 6'6". I know what you mean too, I gained like 30 lbs my first 2.5 years. Then lost it all from Arthritis in my spine and ankles. I'm almost back to wear I was all natty about 2 years ago but this time I have WAY less bf and I'm stronger.

    Good insight though.
    Im at 5 years training and I can say 6 to 10 is decent for me aswell. I miss the doms I got from my first atg squat haha! Still get doms but not that 4 days bow legged walk kinda doms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    X-Gels = Hot Dog
    Mild PH = Quarter Pounder
    Designer Steroid = Double Quarter Pounder w/ Potatoes
    Injectable = New York strip with loaded baked potato
    Make that a foot long hot dog

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Make that a foot long hot dog
    As a rep, you forfeit your right to reply to this. In all actuality, you may be right and it is a better product than a regular hot dog since I have never personally used it. However i have used Halodrol Liquigels when they came out a century ago and it also was an ARA supplement, one which made me feel like complete ass. The pro-inflammatory effects were ridiculous. I wish the best for X-Gels, I just don't think its for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post

    As a rep, you forfeit your right to reply to this. In all actuality, you may be right and it is a better product than a regular hot dog since I have never personally used it. However i have used Halodrol Liquigels when they came out a century ago and it also was an ARA supplement, one which made me feel like complete ass. The pro-inflammatory effects were ridiculous. I wish the best for X-Gels, I just don't think its for me.
    Xgels definitely isnt for everyone. 4 weeks at 3-4 caps is all I care to do

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    i still need to try them....
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    I never said it wasn't a fantastic alternative. I did say that it would not yield the same gains as something that would require a PCT. You seem to be just grabbing the facts what you want to hear and disregarding my whole point and that they're not the same as a mild ph.


    And seriously, you're going to take one look at my avatar and decide that I don't know anything. Or maybe you went into my threads and saw that I ran a cycle once. Either way I think you would have been better off sticking to your argument with logic instead of insulting me. For your information I actually went through a very traumatic event after getting to 225 all natural and I lost close to 30 pounds. I happen to be very happy with how I look right now considering I have still gained 40 pounds of LBM in the 4 years including the entire year where I was almost bedridden. So cut on me all you want all I'm ever going to do is compare my results to my results
    I'd challenge someone to a friendly little wager of me on X-Gels vs them on Halo. From start to finish, finish being a month or so post PCT, the outcomes would be very similar. My results might be a little better
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    Btw I never insulted you. I remained professional while you insulted me calling me a prick etc. I was commenting merely on your experience level. You've ran two from what I've counted (hdrol and the other thread you referred to which I had no idea about) cycles and have relatively little to show for it. You're recommending someone follow in your footsteps with a mild PH including the risks, while they could get the same results with a more sustainable and healthier alternative. My logic is off?

    You may not like what I have to say but I'd prefer to sway someone in a more beneficial direction when first starting out, than making the same mistakes you made with your cycle. The trend on these forums is people jump head first into steroids without knowing their heads from their assess, feel and look awesome for the length of the cycle and then.... back to square one, which means time for SD lol, it's asinine.

    I'm sorry to hear about your personal problems. I sincerely hope everything is on the up and up now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    I'd challenge someone to a friendly little wager of me on X-Gels vs them on Halo. From start to finish, finish being a month or so post PCT, the outcomes would be very similar. My results might be a little better
    This sounds like a lot of fun.

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    I'm still trying to figure out of Xgels are the way to roll. Everyone just started to measure how big their peckers were and sorta got off target.
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    I would love to log xgels with dermacrine one day
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