Want a LEGAL pro hormone...

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    Quote Originally Posted by allday54 View Post
    Not to be a buzz kill, but these "legal steroids" have little significance. You will be disappointed in your progress. Best route is to find a shady doctor and get yourself a prescription.
    tell that to the once "legal steroids" that now rock the black market.

    aka m1t and sd

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    Exactly^^

    Besides, not all PHs are banned or illegal.

    The fact that you wouldn't even consider a SERM leaves you in a category to yield minimal gains in a cycle, though.

    If you expecting some kind of transformation or 20-30lbs lift increases from one cycle of anything you don't even need a SERM for than you sir, are going to be disappointed. It really is that simple. There is so much out there that is not banned or illegal that can make noticeable leaps in LBM but sorry to say that 2 step conversion DHEA metabolites are not one of them. Its the best you are going to get with no SERM though... unless you flirt with a 5 week mild methyl run and build a serious OTC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmm004 View Post
    I have been lifting for awhile now, I have my diet on check and a good work out routine. I'm looking for a good pro hormone to assist me in gaining some mass and unlocking what my body can do. Does anyone had any personal favorites, or things they would recommend? I only want OTC items, will not even discuss illegal stuff.
    So u don't want anything illegal so what are you doing for pct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    That has a nice ring to it
    Still need to try X gels
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    I would like to try X-gels, too. Its just a big turnoff for me when 10 reps all jump on some guy asking about PH's with things like "Screw Prohormones, get X-gels". makes me not want to buy them. Just being honest.

    Not to mention the 1,000 natural products that were brought out to compare with PH gains... how many of them made you gain like a PH? I think I counted none, hence why PHs are still (and probably always will be) popular to the experienced lifters looking for above natural gains.

    Not trying to flame here, just calling it like I see it. Its still an educated assumption but natural products claiming to give you PH like gains are a dime a dozen. These products get compared to PHs because PHs are the standard for things that actually work in the world of body building.

    That being said, yes, I am still going to try them to see if its worth it one day unless I start reading bad reviews by then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    I would like to try X-gels, too. Its just a big turnoff for me when 10 reps all jump on some guy asking about PH's with things like "Screw Prohormones, get X-gels". makes me not want to buy them. Just being honest.

    Not to mention the 1,000 natural products that were brought out to compare with PH gains... how many of them made you gain like a PH? I think I counted none, hence why PHs are still (and probably always will be) popular to the experienced lifters looking for above natural gains.

    Not trying to flame here, just calling it like I see it. Its still an educated assumption but natural products claiming to give you PH like gains are a dime a dozen. These products get compared to PHs because PHs are the standard for things that actually work in thek world of body building.

    That being said, yes, I am still going to try them to see if its worth it one day unless I start reading bad reviews by then.
    Only mw and I mentioned X-gels, the rest were recommendations from other members

    Also the data on X-gels (human studies) show increases in 1RM strength over the course of the cycle and adding further that the attributes of ArA promote muscle anabolism literally puts it on par with a DHEA cycle.

    They are non methylated and cause zero shutdown which makes me favour them even more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    I would like to try X-gels, too. Its just a big turnoff for me when 10 reps all jump on some guy asking about PH's with things like "Screw Prohormones, get X-gels". makes me not want to buy them. Just being honest.

    Not to mention the 1,000 natural products that were brought out to compare with PH gains... how many of them made you gain like a PH? I think I counted none, hence why PHs are still (and probably always will be) popular to the experienced lifters looking for above natural gains.

    Not trying to flame here, just calling it like I see it. Its still an educated assumption but natural products claiming to give you PH like gains are a dime a dozen. These products get compared to PHs because PHs are the standard for things that actually work in the world of body building.

    That being said, yes, I am still going to try them to see if its worth it one day unless I start reading bad reviews by then.
    i understand your point 100%. I am not sure how active you are on this forum, but many users (not reps) love X Gels and promote them. I have not used them but I really want to. Once I get my hands on some, I plan on doing an unbiased (like always) log of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmm004 View Post
    I have been lifting for awhile now, I have my diet on check and a good work out routine. I'm looking for a good pro hormone to assist me in gaining some mass and unlocking what my body can do. Does anyone had any personal favorites, or things they would recommend? I only want OTC items, will not even discuss illegal stuff.
    I rec testosterone bas ewith all orals ProH or straight AAS. but i like DMZ, superdrol and M1D from LG
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    These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.
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    Ill give them a shot one day.

    I did a Triazole/ Activate Xtreme that gave me more strength than a DHEA run so you aren't really creating miracles for me.

    I place 2 step conversion DHEA at the extreme bottom of the pile of "phs". So to say they are comparable to PHs in general is inaccurate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Ill give them a shot one day.

    I did a Triazole/ Activate Xtreme that gave me more strength than a DHEA run so you aren't really creating miracles for me.

    I place 2 step conversion DHEA at the extreme bottom of the pile of "phs". So to say they are comparable to PHs in general is inaccurate.
    And thats fine, but luckily i used the phrase "mild ph"

    Def not trying to compare them to superdrol or anything.
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    If you want ph gains then take a ph. Don't expect to take a supplement and get ph gains. End of story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Ill give them a shot one day.

    I did a Triazole/ Activate Xtreme that gave me more strength than a DHEA run so you aren't really creating miracles for me.

    I place 2 step conversion DHEA at the extreme bottom of the pile of "phs". So to say they are comparable to PHs in general is inaccurate.
    You have the wrong perspective on these types of hormones. While these DHEA PH's can seem weaker and are in most cases compared to the active steroids on the market. But if dosed higher they can be very effective on a bulk. If dosed per bottle directions they are a great starting stack.


    Also on a side note I personally think 1andro has some direct activity which would only be a 1 step conversion to an active.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    You have the wrong perspective on these types of hormones. While these DHEA PH's can seem weaker and are in most cases compared to the active steroids on the market. But if dosed higher they can be very effective on a bulk. If dosed per bottle directions they are a great starting stack.

    Also on a side note I personally think 1andro has some direct activity which would only be a 1 step conversion to an active.
    Yeah this actually. But the cost:benefit ratio increases as well lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Yeah this actually. But the cost:benefit ratio increases as well lol
    This can be very true as high dosed 1dhea had rather amazing results for me but it did have some rather strong lethargy like the old 1ad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    This can be very true as high dosed 1dhea had rather amazing results for me but it did have some rather strong lethargy like the old 1ad.
    Agreed! I dosed 1 and 4 higher than recommended and got rather tired but the results were worth it imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    If you want ph gains then take a ph. Don't expect to take a supplement and get ph gains. End of story.
    BPS rep now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    You have the wrong perspective on these types of hormones. While these DHEA PH's can seem weaker and are in most cases compared to the active steroids on the market. But if dosed higher they can be very effective on a bulk. If dosed per bottle directions they are a great starting stack.

    Also on a side note I personally think 1andro has some direct activity which would only be a 1 step conversion to an active.
    I'm actually not sure about the 1-ad you may be right. Regardless, I've taken double the "recommended dose" for 6 weeks and was not very impressed. That's $240 of 1ad/4ad at 2x dose for 6 weeks if the bottles are $40 each (sometimes they are a bit cheaper). I don't knock them for a beginner cycle although I was a beginner at the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    If you want ph gains then take a ph. Don't expect to take a supplement and get ph gains. End of story.
    So much this... copious amounts of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    OP you should consider an X-gel run before running a PH. The strength gains are comparable to that of a mild PH cycle.
    Everyone keeps mentioning X gels, So how long do you run them, what PCT and what kind of side affects am I looking at. I'm completely new to this side of the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmm004 View Post
    Everyone keeps mentioning X gels, So how long do you run them, what PCT and what kind of side affects am I looking at. I'm completely new to this side of the game.
    X-Gels aren't hormonal brotha man. No PCT, no negative side effects that are found with hormonal compounds. There are additional supps taken with them to increase effectiveness such as LCLT, GMS etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmm004 View Post
    Everyone keeps mentioning X gels, So how long do you run them, what PCT and what kind of side affects am I looking at. I'm completely new to this side of the game.
    You asked about a PH that would give you above natural gains. X-gels are not that. They are a natural product that are supposed to mimic PH "like" gains and require no PCT because they are not hormonal.

    If you want PH gains you have to take a PH.

    That being said you may gain something from them. But once you take an actual proven PH, any product that does not require PCT will seem like bringing a squirt gun to fire hose fight.
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    How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

    Legal prohormones on the market now are:

    1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
    4-Andro - bulking
    19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
    Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
    5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
    11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

    That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

    Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LG Sciences View Post
    How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

    Legal prohormones on the market now are:

    1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
    4-Andro - bulking
    19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
    Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
    5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
    11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

    That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

    Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.

    I'm looking for mass and strength I'm not to worried about being "cut" I'm a nice sized guy but I'm not as strong as I would like. Also I have parts of my body that I'm not happy with that I'm currently changing my WO routine to focus more on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LG Sciences View Post
    How about talking about your goals - mass, cutting or strength?

    Legal prohormones on the market now are:

    1-Andro - lean bulking, strength
    4-Andro - bulking
    19-NorAndro - mild but almost no sides
    Epiandro - cutting, strength and aggression
    5aOHP - cutting, strength and no aggression
    11-OXO - cutting, little strength and size but very mild

    That's most of them...I may have missed one or two, but that's the majority. What are your goals?

    Also, I am looking for a tester for our 6-Mass tablets. I can send some to you to log if you are interested and will do a detailed log.
    Over all I would like to gain about an inch on my caves, an Inch to 2 on my bis and tris, and about 2-3 inches on my chest. And yes I know this isn't an over the night goal, but for right now that is what I want. Plus I would like to add 40-60 lbs on bench and 20-30 on straight bar curl. Legs are not a high priority to me due to a huge knee injury, (but yes I do still work them out).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmm004 View Post

    Over all I would like to gain about an inch on my caves, an Inch to 2 on my bis and tris, and about 2-3 inches on my chest. And yes I know this isn't an over the night goal, but for right now that is what I want. Plus I would like to add 40-60 lbs on bench and 20-30 on straight bar curl. Legs are not a high priority to me due to a huge knee injury, (but yes I do still work them out).
    That's multiple cycles for most people my friend. And those gains would have to be from something that DEFINITELY requires a SERM. Period. That's a big transformation, man. Multiple years for an already, somewhat avid lifter.

    Doing a real PH (mild-methylated) cycle is not going to put you close to that LBM wise. Maybe strength wise with the right compound like Epi or even heavier but usually you won't stay that strong after youre off again.

    There's no secret to big mass and strength. It takes a long goddamn time and a sh*t ton of delicious animals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    You asked about a PH that would give you above natural gains. X-gels are not that. They are a natural product that are supposed to mimic PH "like" gains and require no PCT because they are not hormonal.

    If you want PH gains you have to take a PH.

    That being said you may gain something from them. But once you take an actual proven PH, any product that does not require PCT will seem like bringing a squirt gun to fire hose fight.
    Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.
    Please dude... Don't even use SD in a sentence with that. Of course they aren't comparing a natty product to SD, its one of the harshest PHs ever. Hdrol is a true "mild" PH and I would be effin shocked if x-gels came close. I'm not talking about the next gen DHEA products that barely require PCT. I've double dosed them for 6 weeks and Hdrol made me twice as strong and gain twice as much at 75 mg.

    So X-Gels give much the same results as the less effective versions of 1-andro and 4-ad? Maybe you can preach that and people will buy it. I would not use the word "mild", though. I'd use "weaker PH" (which still give results, though). Sorry, just being honest.

    Hell, I can gain 6 lbs taking nothing in a 6 week cycle's length (.75 lbs a week is what I generally bulk at naturally, anyway. I used to do a whole pound). Would it be the same amount of muscle as if I did a true PH? Hell no. Sorry, but I will never believe you that a natural product with "NO PCT NEEDED" will give you anywhere close to the results of something that pumps synthetic hormones through your body.

    That's just common sense to me. Not trying to bash on X-gels, unless you tell me they do something that they won't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Not even remotely true. I would definitely compare X-Gels to a mild PH. A successful cycle from start to finish of a mild PH will net you what 6lbs after PCT? 10 while on cycle? No one is comparing X-Gels to SD but a *mild* PH, easily.
    What mild ph you referring to? Curious
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    I'm curious too
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    X-Gels = Hot Dog
    Mild PH = Quarter Pounder
    Designer Steroid = Double Quarter Pounder w/ Potatoes
    Injectable = New York strip with loaded baked potato
    Remember why you started.
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    Nice analogy.

    My suggestion for a mild PH stack that will add that would be:

    1-Andro AMS, LG, Forerunner or Finiflex - choose sublingual tablets, sublingual liquid, liquid capsules, capsules
    Epiandro - LG - EPIANDRO liquid

    PCT - take your choice with anything that has 3,5-diene-dione in it. Form-XT is ours (tabs or liquid), Reboot, PCT, Erase etc...

    These two promote a lot of strength and decent mass. Obviously you need to eat well and lift heavy.

    Also, you have to realize that every person is different, so what one responds to is not what everyone responds to...
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