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Need Advice: Homemade Pre-workout Supp. for Cardio

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    Need Advice: Homemade Pre-workout Supp. for Cardio


    Let me start by saying I want to limit my ingredients to 3-4, caffeine probably a must. My main goal is energy & endurance for cardio (playing full court basketball in my case) in the evenings. Not concerned with the "pump" that some look for when lifting.

    After doing some searching on internet for ideas, here is what I came up with...

    1. Caffeine powder
    2. Citrulline Malate
    3.
    Beta Alanine
    4. BCAA


    Loved dmaa (Jack3d) in the past for basketball but really tuff getting to sleep (plus the ban thing). I tolerate caffeine much better in this regard.

    Have I "nailed it" or something better for one or two on the list? (Remember, I really prefer limiting to 3-4 supps only.)


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    Quote Originally Posted by davesavvy View Post
    Let me start by saying I want to limit my ingredients to 3-4, caffeine probably a must. My main goal is energy & endurance for cardio (playing full court basketball in my case) in the evenings. Not concerned with the "pump" that some look for when lifting.

    After doing some searching on internet for ideas, here is what I came up with...

    1. Caffeine powder
    2. Citrulline Malate
    3. Beta Alanine
    4. BCAA

    Loved dmaa (Jack3d) in the past for basketball but really tuff getting to sleep (plus the ban thing). I tolerate caffeine much better in this regard.

    Have I "nailed it" or something better for one or two on the list? (Remember, I really prefer limiting to 3-4 supps only.)
    Pass the bcaas and opt for COP. My personal endurance shot through the roof. My form of cardio is sledgehammer swings if you know how taxing that is. Added 1 minute the second week and 2 the third. Had to move up in hammer weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Pass the bcaas and opt for COP. My personal endurance shot through the roof. My form of cardio is sledgehammer swings if you know how taxing that is. Added 1 minute the second week and 2 the third. Had to move up in hammer weight.
    Great suggestion. I like what I've read so far...plus it's cheap

    Ref:

    Creatinol-O-Phosphate
    Increases strength
    Acts as an intracellular buffer to help clear lactic acid and prevent hypoxia which can limit performance during training
    Improves performance by increasing anaerobic glycolysis
    Improves recovery

    Despite the similar name, Creatinol O-Phosphate (COP) is not creatine. COP acts differently than creatine to improve performance, strength, and enhance recovery. In fact, it may actually be useful as an adjunct to enhance the ergogenic effects of creatine.

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    Your list is good minus the BCAAs as pyrobatt mentioned. If you want something to sip on between plays, go with an EAA + electrolyte product...BCAAs are more for a chug/plasma leucine spike.

    COP is a great addition. Another good one is LCLT, which improves VO2 max. Taurine also has data showing it improves aerobic activity.
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    You seem pretty set on creating your own PWO which is cool and I also do it from time to time, but give Uncut a try. Uncut at 1 cap is great for playin ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davesavvy View Post
    Great suggestion. I like what I've read so far...plus it's cheap Ref: Creatinol-O-Phosphate Increases strength Acts as an intracellular buffer to help clear lactic acid and prevent hypoxia which can limit performance during training Improves performance by increasing anaerobic glycolysis Improves recovery Despite the similar name, Creatinol O-Phosphate (COP) is not creatine. COP acts differently than creatine to improve performance, strength, and enhance recovery. In fact, it may actually be useful as an adjunct to enhance the ergogenic effects of creatine.
    I'm also gonna have to give this a try. It seems like a nice addition to any pre-workout supp.

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    It seams like some people don't like it but I like green tea for cardio. ALCAR have been a good add for me also. MC and BA have never really made a big difference for me but a lot of people like it.

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    Great feedback so far! LCLT is interesting as well. I like the hormanl impact too, i.e. andrgen receptor activity, increased IGFBP-3 , etc
    Ref:
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/be...-tartrate.html
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12930169

    Revised list:
    1. Caffeine powder
    2. Citrulline Malate
    3. Beta Alanine
    4. Creatinol-O-Phosphate (COP)

    Other Options:
    1. L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate (LCLT)
    2. Taurine

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    So I finally tried this mix without caffeine though:
    - Citrulline Malate
    - Beta Alanine
    - Creatinol-O-Phosphate (COP)
    - Taurine

    Very disappointed. Felt no difference in energy or endurance during 1.5 hr of basketball. Maybe the caffeine IS A MUST? I skipped the caffeine intentionally to see what this stim free mix would be like, now I know.

    Also, I used Primaforce for all except Taurine. Something did not dissolve well. Looked like a mini snow storm in the glass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davesavvy View Post
    So I finally tried this mix without caffeine though:
    - Citrulline Malate
    - Beta Alanine
    - Creatinol-O-Phosphate (COP)
    - Taurine

    Very disappointed. Felt no difference in energy or endurance during 1.5 hr of basketball. Maybe the caffeine IS A MUST? I skipped the caffeine intentionally to see what this stim free mix would be like, now I know.

    Also, I used Primaforce for all except Taurine. Something did not dissolve well. Looked like a mini snow storm in the glass.
    None of these produce energy in that sense. your expectations are way off
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesavvy View Post
    So I finally tried this mix without caffeine though:
    - Citrulline Malate
    - Beta Alanine
    - Creatinol-O-Phosphate (COP)
    - Taurine

    Very disappointed. Felt no difference in energy or endurance during 1.5 hr of basketball. Maybe the caffeine IS A MUST? I skipped the caffeine intentionally to see what this stim free mix would be like, now I know.

    Also, I used Primaforce for all except Taurine. Something did not dissolve well. Looked like a mini snow storm in the glass.
    You are using mostly endurance and lactic acid buffering agents here, if you are looking for energy you will need the caffeine.
    The effects youre after would be better achieved using a stim and possibly a carnitine source as well. Caffeine + ALCAR gives me an energized and focused feeling.
    For physical endurance keep the COP and BA if it was me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven2lift View Post

    You are using mostly endurance and lactic acid buffering agents here, if you are looking for energy you will need the caffeine.
    The effects youre after would be better achieved using a stim and possibly a carnitine source as well. Caffeine + ALCAR gives me an energized and focused feeling.
    For physical endurance keep the COP and BA if it was me
    What dosages do you run the ALCAR & caffeine for energy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Pass the bcaas and opt for COP. My personal endurance shot through the roof. My form of cardio is sledgehammer swings if you know how taxing that is. Added 1 minute the second week and 2 the third. Had to move up in hammer weight.
    How much COP were you using? Was it just pre-workout or spread throughout the day? Thanks

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    GMS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post

    What dosages do you run the ALCAR & caffeine for energy?
    200+ mg caffeine depending on tolerance
    1-2 g ALCAR (very cheap in bulk powder, 250 g for $20)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post

    How much COP were you using? Was it just pre-workout or spread throughout the day? Thanks
    2 to 4 g. I truely do believe that there may be a better effect at 4g for me personally. Tryed 8 caps peak beta+ and 4 caps peak beta and 4 caps sns cop and get the same effect. I don't know for sure. The regular dose is 2g every day. Not just on workout days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Pass the bcaas and opt for COP. My personal endurance shot through the roof. My form of cardio is sledgehammer swings if you know how taxing that is. Added 1 minute the second week and 2 the third. Had to move up in hammer weight.
    This, COP kicks ass for high rep training and for cardio.

    I never train without Peak Beta+ anymore, this stuff made me a true believer in the benefits of COP.
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    For my Pre-workouts, Gameday is perfect for cardio/endurance training, and especially sports performance.

    If you want to break it down and consume only 4 ingredients, then I think these are good:
    1. Caffeine
    2. COP
    3. Beta Alanine
    4. L-Citrulline

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    I recommend COP as well, good stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post

    This, COP kicks ass for high rep training and for cardio.

    I never train without Peak Beta+ anymore, this stuff made me a true believer in the benefits of COP.
    I thought COP has also benefits for lower rep ranges?

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