X Factor vs. X Factor Advanced for someone w/ joint issues

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    X Factor vs. X Factor Advanced for someone w/ joint issues


    Hi Everyone,

    I have seen lots of threads on this and I know the basic consensus is that the original is better if your joints are healthy, but Advanced is better for those with joint issues or people who got sides from the original. I am using advanced right now and LOVE it! However, the original is currently on an unbelievable sale at a website I probably cannot mention (2 100 ct. bottles for 60 USD w/ free shipping to US), so I am seriously considering picking up a bunch. My question is: how big is the difference to joints between the two? If it is generally a very small difference, I will just go for this sale; however, if the original is much harsher on joints, I will probably opt to wait for the advanced to go on sale (I have had my meniscus shaved already, and I grapple 3-5 times a week). What do you all think? Thanks!!!

    Best,
    Tyler

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    I personally prefer the original, however the advanced is supposedly "friendlier" to the joints due to some additions to the product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post
    I personally prefer the original, however the advanced is supposedly "friendlier" to the joints due to some additions to the product.
    Thanks for the reply! Do you know how much 'friendlier' by any chance? Also is DOMS supposed to be worse on the original than it is on advanced?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post

    Thanks for the reply! Do you know how much 'friendlier' by any chance? Also is DOMS supposed to be worse on the original than it is on advanced?
    In all honesty the DOMS is really not that bad. For example say I wasn't taking ArA (main compound in xfactor and advanced) and I didn't train a body part for around 6-8 days then did the DOMS I get is bad but not debilitating. If I was using ArA and train a body part say around 4-6 days the DOMs was not as bad as no usage but bigger time period between training the muscle group, just my experiences though.

    In all honesty if you have no inflammatory issues or other health related issues you will be fine and in my experience and any good product which lowers estrogen was worse for my joints. Also XFA advanced is better for your joints but got some it won't be even noticeable unless you joints are really bad, even then is all user dependant and individual. Hope that helps
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post

    In all honesty the DOMS is really not that bad. For example say I wasn't taking ArA (main compound in xfactor and advanced) and I didn't train a body part for around 6-8 days then did the DOMS I get is bad but not debilitating. If I was using ArA and train a body part say around 4-6 days the DOMs was not as bad as no usage but bigger time period between training the muscle group, just my experiences though.

    In all honesty if you have no inflammatory issues or other health related issues you will be fine and in my experience and any good product which lowers estrogen was worse for my joints. Also XFA advanced is better for your joints but got some it won't be even noticeable unless you joints are really bad, even then is all user dependant and individual. Hope that helps
    Definitely helps! Thanks especially for reporting on your personal experience, which is awesome to hear. I do have joint issues but they aren't what I would call serious... I am mostly worried because I do Bjj 3-5 times a week which takes its own toll for sure.

    Most importantly, most people say the difference between them isn't big anyway?

    Are the headaches worse on the original or would that side be the same with both?
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    if you are worried about joint issues with the OG then you can supplement with a low dose of fish oil as XF advanced does
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    Quote Originally Posted by cumminslifter View Post
    if you are worried about joint issues with the OG then you can supplement with a low dose of fish oil as XF advanced does
    I guess you must be right. My joints feel great on XFA and I was afraid of joint pain, but I do supplement with high-dose fish oil and supercissus every morning (at least 8 hours away from XF). I went ahead and ordered the OG. Price was way too good to pass up.
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    I prefer straight ArA (x-gels or xfactor). Stocking up when they are on sale like that is a smart choice.
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    I jumped on the $60 for 200 ct and then a 100 ct for $35 on top of that

    Anyhoot OP, do you currently have tendonitis of any sort? If you do, I would be careful when taking ArA, it could definitely aggravate it. As for personal experience, I was recovering from a pretty debilitating forearm tendonitis when I started using XF a few months back. I was careful and avoided things that I knew was going to aggravate the injury, in the end, made very good progress, and didn't bust my injury further (it actually recovered in the end, right now I have trigger finger in my left hand but it only locks out when it's cold). So, if your issues aren't too serious, it's probably ok to use XF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I jumped on the $60 for 200 ct and then a 100 ct for $35 on top of that

    Anyhoot OP, do you currently have tendonitis of any sort? If you do, I would be careful when taking ArA, it could definitely aggravate it. As for personal experience, I was recovering from a pretty debilitating forearm tendonitis when I started using XF a few months back. I was careful and avoided things that I knew was going to aggravate the injury, in the end, made very good progress, and didn't bust my injury further (it actually recovered in the end, right now I have trigger finger in my left hand but it only locks out when it's cold). So, if your issues aren't too serious, it's probably ok to use XF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    Definitely helps! Thanks especially for reporting on your personal experience, which is awesome to hear. I do have joint issues but they aren't what I would call serious... I am mostly worried because I do Bjj 3-5 times a week which takes its own toll for sure.

    Most importantly, most people say the difference between them isn't big anyway?

    Are the headaches worse on the original or would that side be the same with both?
    The electrolytes were added to the Advanced to help with headaches.

    Boswellia and fish oil will help alleviate joint pain and headaches.

    Joint pain and headache are minor side effects though, most (myself included) dont experience them, or experience them to a negligible extent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cumminslifter View Post
    hey kissdadookie
    Bwah ha ha. Repped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I jumped on the $60 for 200 ct and then a 100 ct for $35 on top of that

    Anyhoot OP, do you currently have tendonitis of any sort? If you do, I would be careful when taking ArA, it could definitely aggravate it. As for personal experience, I was recovering from a pretty debilitating forearm tendonitis when I started using XF a few months back. I was careful and avoided things that I knew was going to aggravate the injury, in the end, made very good progress, and didn't bust my injury further (it actually recovered in the end, right now I have trigger finger in my left hand but it only locks out when it's cold). So, if your issues aren't too serious, it's probably ok to use XF.
    I'll be honest, on my log now I have gotten strange phantom injuries a few times (like my wrist will start hurting at bjj and then will keep hurting for an hour or two and the it'll be 100% fine), but my main concern is my knees and they have not only not gotten worse on this log but actually feel better than they have in years, so I was a bit worried about the switch, but it was just too hard not to order at that price . I guess I will have to be my own guinea pig. If I notice a big difference one way or the other I will write about it.

    I did also get headaches once or twice, but I guess since aspirin is supposed to be advised when using ArA if you aren't using carnitine (apparently it does the same thing as carnitine, platelet aggregation, which I will look into over the next few weeks), I could always take aspirin if I get headaches from ArA.

    Overall my sides have been so mild on the advanced formula I was hoping to stick with that, but if worse comes to worse I could take a cap of fish oil and maybe a cap of cissus with XFO and see if that reduces sides while keeping effects mostly untouched at a low dose. Thanks!

    Best,
    Tyler
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post
    The electrolytes were added to the Advanced to help with headaches.

    Boswellia and fish oil will help alleviate joint pain and headaches.

    Joint pain and headache are minor side effects though, most (myself included) dont experience them, or experience them to a negligible extent.
    Great info, thanks! So if the headaches are worse on XFO I can just take a small amount of electrolytes with it to reduce them I suppose. That is sure simple enough . Great sales from MN all over the place!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    I'll be honest, on my log now I have gotten strange phantom injuries a few times (like my wrist will start hurting at bjj and then will keep hurting for an hour or two and the it'll be 100% fine), but my main concern is my knees and they have not only not gotten worse on this log but actually feel better than they have in years, so I was a bit worried about the switch, but it was just too hard not to order at that price . I guess I will have to be my own guinea pig. If I notice a big difference one way or the other I will write about it.

    I did also get headaches once or twice, but I guess since aspirin is supposed to be advised when using ArA if you aren't using carnitine (apparently it does the same thing as carnitine, platelet aggregation, which I will look into over the next few weeks), I could always take aspirin if I get headaches from ArA.

    Overall my sides have been so mild on the advanced formula I was hoping to stick with that, but if worse comes to worse I could take a cap of fish oil and maybe a cap of cissus with XFO and see if that reduces sides while keeping effects mostly untouched at a low dose. Thanks!

    Best,
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    Since you are running XFA already, just save your XFO for your next run As long as you get in on that great deal, lulz. Friggin deal can't be beat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post
    The electrolytes were added to the Advanced to help with headaches.

    Boswellia and fish oil will help alleviate joint pain and headaches.

    Joint pain and headache are minor side effects though, most (myself included) dont experience them, or experience them to a negligible extent.
    I hate to keep picking on XFA but the formula is indefensible. If you wanted to combat headaches, you wouldn't use 400mg of magnesium oxide (per 1g ArA), a potent laxative that will ultimately disrupt your body's electrolyte balance.

    Fish oil directly competes for ArA metabolism, so you'd either omit it from an ArA cycle or use it at a later time. Arguably the worst thing you can add to an ArA cycle is fish oil at the exact same time. Worse than NSAIDs and all the other stuff you guys fear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    Great info, thanks! So if the headaches are worse on XFO I can just take a small amount of electrolytes with it to reduce them I suppose. That is sure simple enough . Great sales from MN all over the place!
    No you cannot. That is not what causes ArA headaches.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I hate to keep picking on XFA but the formula is indefensible. If you wanted to combat headaches, you wouldn't use 400mg of magnesium oxide (per 1g ArA), a potent laxative that will ultimately disrupt your body's electrolyte balance.

    Fish oil directly competes for ArA metabolism, so you'd either omit it from an ArA cycle or use it at a later time. Arguably the worst thing you can add to an ArA cycle is fish oil at the exact same time. Worse than NSAIDs and all the other stuff you guys fear.
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    No you cannot. That is not what causes ArA headaches.
    OK thanks for the info. In all honesty I have noticed a little digestive distress once in awhile on my current run of XFA so maybe that's why.

    If you don't mind me asking (I'm sure you've already explained it somewhere else), what does cause the headaches? I haven't gotten them often, but would there be any reason to think I would get them more on the original formula?

    And low-dose aspirin will not disrupt the effects of ArA, right? So, if I get any headaches, I can use that to combat them without compromising effectiveness? I read somewhere [I think from you in addition to others] that it is beneficial in the same way as carnitine. Thanks , Coop!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    OK thanks for the info. In all honesty I have noticed a little digestive distress once in awhile on my current run of XFA so maybe that's why.

    If you don't mind me asking (I'm sure you've already explained it somewhere else), what does cause the headaches? I haven't gotten them often, but would there be any reason to think I would get them more on the original formula?

    And low-dose aspirin will not disrupt the effects of ArA, right? So, if I get any headaches, I can use that to combat them without compromising effectiveness? I read somewhere [I think from you in addition to others] that it is beneficial in the same way as carnitine. Thanks , Coop!
    It's a complex issue that will be highly user-specific, but it has to do with excessive prostaglandin signaling in the brain.

    Low-dose aspirin is not an issue with ArA, but it won't affect headaches at such a low concentration either. Most of its activity is derived from irreversible acetyl-group donation to COX-1 prior to liver entry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    It's a complex issue that will be highly user-specific, but it has to do with excessive prostaglandin signaling in the brain.

    Low-dose aspirin is not an issue with ArA, but it won't affect headaches at such a low concentration either. Most of its activity is derived from irreversible acetyl-group donation to COX-1 prior to liver entry.
    I see. And aspirin at a regular dose would not be advised with ArA?
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    Mr Cooper, you represent a competing company. Please start acting responsibly on their behalf and keeping you opinion away from public forums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post
    Mr Cooper, you represent a competing company. Please start acting responsibly on their behalf and keeping you opinion away from public forums.
    We currently do not have similar products.
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    I have used magnesium acetate in the past to treat ArA headaches and it always worked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post
    We currently do not have similar products.
    I don't think he is referring to PES but a past company Cooper repped for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patuba View Post

    I don't think he is referring to PES but a past company Cooper repped for.
    I know, which Cy no longer works for or represents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post
    Mr Cooper, you represent a competing company. Please start acting responsibly on their behalf and keeping you opinion away from public forums.
    Are you joking? You make X-factor. I'm recommending one product of yours over another, based on actual scientific evidence which countless other unbiased, bright minds seem to agree with. You are literally out of your mind if you think I have a conflict of interest because I used to represent SNS. I'm sorry, but you want me "to keep my opinion away from public forums?" Do you realize how much praise I've given ArA over the years? You should be thanking me for my continuous support and the sales I generate for your product, but instead, at first sign of criticism of a single formula, you are complaining? Shame on you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Are you joking? You make X-factor. I'm recommending one product of yours over another, based on actual scientific evidence which countless other unbiased, bright minds seem to agree with. You are literally out of your mind if you think I have a conflict of interest because I used to represent SNS. I'm sorry, but you want me "to keep my opinion away from public forums?" Do you realize how much praise I've given ArA over the years? You should be thanking me for my continuous support and the sales I generate for your product, but instead, at first sign of criticism of a single formula, you are complaining? Shame on you.
    What he said. I would say why I think XFO > XFA, but I will be accused of bias even though my opinion was the same before you even worked for MN SwollenOne.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post

    Definitely helps! Thanks especially for reporting on your personal experience, which is awesome to hear. I do have joint issues but they aren't what I would call serious... I am mostly worried because I do Bjj 3-5 times a week which takes its own toll for sure.

    Most importantly, most people say the difference between them isn't big anyway?

    Are the headaches worse on the original or would that side be the same with both?
    In my opinion, I did get headaches but I tho k I am prone to headaches anyway, but they werent frequent. I did notice them more on the original, but I did also notice more effect from the original. Not major but for me, I would pick the original. But some get equal results with either. Hope that helps
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post
    In my opinion, I did get headaches but I tho k I am prone to headaches anyway, but they werent frequent. I did notice them more on the original, but I did also notice more effect from the original. Not major but for me, I would pick the original. But some get equal results with either. Hope that helps
    I bit the bullet and went with the original. It seemed to be overall preferred and the sale was so freakin sweet how could I resist? I figure if worse comes to worse the difference in sides doesn't seem to be bad even if it is there, and ArA is too good not to stock up on . That info does help a lot for reference, thanks man!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    I bit the bullet and went with the original. It seemed to be overall preferred and the sale was so freakin sweet how could I resist? I figure if worse comes to worse the difference in sides doesn't seem to be bad even if it is there, and ArA is too good not to stock up on . That info does help a lot for reference, thanks man!!!
    Man, I just hope that my stuff will be shipping soon! Good thing is that they actually do split shipping since I got the bulk of my order yesterday and only missing a few items
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Man, I just hope that my stuff will be shipping soon! Good thing is that they actually do split shipping since I got the bulk of my order yesterday and only missing a few items
    That company has the fastest email communication I have ever seen, and hearing that they split shipping makes me love them even more. Super nice guy there who really went out of his way to get our questions answered about intl shipping policies. Decent international rates, too (although Nutraplanet just added 13-dollar intl shipping to TW so no one will beat that).
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    That company has the fastest email communication I have ever seen, and hearing that they split shipping makes me love them even more. Super nice guy there who really went out of his way to get our questions answered about intl shipping policies. Decent international rates, too (although Nutraplanet just added 13-dollar intl shipping to TW so no one will beat that).
    I haven't actually e-mailed or called them, the package just showed up at my door out of the blue without warning yesterday Then I checked my order status on their site and they've noted what was still missing from my order. Which is great since I was running low on Quest bars and what I REALLY wanted to receive ASAP were the Quest bars, it's like they read my mind!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Are you joking? You make X-factor. I'm recommending one product of yours over another, based on actual scientific evidence which countless other unbiased, bright minds seem to agree with. You are literally out of your mind if you think I have a conflict of interest because I used to represent SNS. I'm sorry, but you want me "to keep my opinion away from public forums?" Do you realize how much praise I've given ArA over the years? You should be thanking me for my continuous support and the sales I generate for your product, but instead, at first sign of criticism of a single formula, you are complaining? Shame on you.
    I didnt say anything about SNS, Ive spoke with Steve via phone multiple times in the past week. SNS is good people, we respect them immensely. I just simply don't think anybody representing any company (last I realized you were with PES, Im unsure what the muscle network is) should speak down on any other companies products (as it is a blatant rules infraction on this forum and the other one that you make similar negative posts almost daily on).

    And at first sight, lol come on man you make comments daily belittling XFA. Anyway, we all get it, you prefer XFO to XFA. There is nothing wrong with that, both are great formulas that provide gains unparalleled by anything else in our industry currently.

    I thank you for your support of Arachidonic Acid, and rather than trying to escalate things upon me asking you to stop, please just stop as any other company rep would. My post was not meant to attack you in any way, lets just make peace and all do our best to make this a community where companies can all thrive and support one another.
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    Coop, I'm very sorry that my request upset you. I realize some, including yourself it seems, took it as me accusing you on bias towards SNS. That isnt the case, we sell to very few of the same accounts that SNS does, its a non issue for us and there is plenty of room for his sku and ours to succeed. Steve and I are on great terms present day, and we will actually hopefully be helping him and others manufacture their arachidonic acid products.

    We also have two other major companies that we are assisting in bringing to market xfo type products soon and a handful of others who will be using it in multi ingredient formulas. We certainly more than welcome ArA making its way into other lines (in fact we invest a great deal of time ensuring this) and are very grateful that SNS has included it in their line.

    I thoroughly respect your immense knowledge, and your opinion on X-Factor Advanced. My post was simply (and while perhaps a PM would have been better suited, your PM box was full) making the case that company reps talking down (even when meant as an honest criticism) on other companies products is a slippery slope and isnt beneficial to any party or the industry as a whole. As we both know, over the years there has been much less of company reps talking down on others products, and that has tremendously benefited all parties. The last thing I want is to create drama on the forums. Im a businessman, I just want to see all of our companies doing as well as possible just as they deserve to!

    Additionally, you threatening me via PM to “open the floodgates” with your critiques of the rest of our line is just malicious. All that I asked of you was to please not comment on other products competing in the marketplace while being a rep, this is not only a simple and respectful request, but also rep etiquette 101. I know that you aren't at all familiar with me, but I am not (nor is anybody at MN) a malicious person who wishes ill will upon anybody. I truly just want to see us all succeed making a living off of selling tremendous sports supplements to tremendous athletes!
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    To the last part, it was a joke. That's why I repped you (you can neg on AM!) and didn't actually do anything lol.

    Sorry you don't like the criticism of XFA, but XFO is indeed superior. I don't think I'm violating any rules by recommending consumers buy the original over the advanced. I guess you don't want me to break down why I feel XFA is inferior, so I won't do that in the future.
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    To the last part, it was a joke. That's why I repped you (you can neg on AM!) and didn't actually do anything lol.

    Sorry you don't like the criticism of XFA, but XFO is indeed superior. I don't think I'm violating any rules by recommending consumers buy the original over the advanced. I guess you don't want me to break down why I feel XFA is inferior, so I won't do that in the future.
    My apologies for not understanding it was a joke, it can be hard to decipher in the written context. I feared that you were more upset than you clearly are judging by this response, thanks for your response and we can move past this

    Thanks again for your support of ArA Mr. Cooper!
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    I wouldn't have gotten that joke either I think.
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