Adaptogens?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    For those looking at ashwagandha for prebed, Solaray is better than the patented Sensoril IMO. It has a stronger sedating/calming effect. 2 caps of it before bed and you're good to go.

    Of course, you should try out a few different brands of ashwagandha and figure out what works better for you. Can't really go by the labels on these things because apart from Sensoril, they don't really have standardized extracts from brand to brand using non-patented extracts.
    Do you have any experience with Relora pre-bed?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    Do you have any experience with Relora pre-bed?
    Yeah. I've taken it at 250 pre-bed. 500 pre-bed. It doesn't sedate you but you do sleep better. Doesn't have the wake up to pee and then knock out back to dream land effect IMO that ashwagandha has.

    I think the best simple pre-bed combo is probably going to be around 200 mg's of 5-HTP (adjust this for your own body, some can do great with less, some may need just a smidgen more, I'm good with 200 mg's) + 250 mg's of Sensoril OR 940 mg's of the Solaray ashwagandha (I prefer the Solaray). If you need extra help falling to sleep, use a little phenibut or GABA and you're good to go. You could add in the Relora but I don't find it necessary.

    Only thing out of all those that I mentioned which will need to be cycled is going to be the 5-HTP and the phenibut or GABA.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Yeah. I've taken it at 250 pre-bed. 500 pre-bed. It doesn't sedate you but you do sleep better. Doesn't have the wake up to pee and then knock out back to dream land effect IMO that ashwagandha has.

    I think the best simple pre-bed combo is probably going to be around 200 mg's of 5-HTP (adjust this for your own body, some can do great with less, some may need just a smidgen more, I'm good with 200 mg's) + 250 mg's of Sensoril OR 940 mg's of the Solaray ashwagandha (I prefer the Solaray). If you need extra help falling to sleep, use a little phenibut or GABA and you're good to go. You could add in the Relora but I don't find it necessary.

    Only thing out of all those that I mentioned which will need to be cycled is going to be the 5-HTP and the phenibut or GABA.
    I don't believe 5-HTP has much of an acute effect on sleep quality or sleep onset. I realize 5-HTP --> serotonin --> melatonin, but I believe most notice the increase in sleep quality with prolonged, consistent usage (1-2 weeks).

  4. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    I don't believe 5-HTP has much of an acute effect on sleep quality or sleep onset. I realize 5-HTP --> serotonin --> melatonin, but I believe most notice the increase in sleep quality with prolonged, consistent usage (1-2 weeks).
    It has a sedative/calming quality at higher doses. Give it a shot. You can also use it at much lower doses (around 50 mg's or so) which appears to give me a mood boost/calming/stress reducing effect.

    Which brings me to wonder why 5-HTP is in some pre-workout products if I recall. Seems counterproductive.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    It has a sedative/calming quality at higher doses. Give it a shot. You can also use it at much lower doses (around 50 mg's or so) which appears to give me a mood boost/calming/stress reducing effect.

    Which brings me to wonder why 5-HTP is in some pre-workout products if I recall. Seems counterproductive.
    I'd like to see its effects on endogenous serotonin production with long term usage. Maybe there is already data out there.

    I'm guessing inclusion is for a "mood boost" or something along those lines. You'd probably more likely see something that is dopaminergic vs. serotonergic in a pre-workout I'd imagine
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    I'd like to see its effects on endogenous serotonin production with long term usage. Maybe there is already data out there.

    I'm guessing inclusion is for a "mood boost" or something along those lines. You'd probably more likely see something that is dopaminergic vs. serotonergic in a pre-workout I'd imagine
    I'm pretty sure that it has acute serotonin production effects even on first time uses. It's pretty well known to dose 5-HTP as you come down from something like MDMA or bath salts (in which you are depleted of serotonin). Anecdotally this is well supported and if you look at it from a scientific POV, you can see how the anecdotal evidence most probably does seem to be scientifically valid. I don't think any real studies has been done on 5-HTP though.

    End of the day though, when you take a higher dose of 5-HTP, more likely than not, you'll feel something from that.

  7. In my old party days, 5-HTP was a must. It definitely works to help replenish serotonin.

  8. So I'm good to go with Eclectic Institute Rhodiola & Gaia Rhodiola?

    One is ninety 500mg caps and the other is 60 caps with less mg...

  9. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    In my old party days, 5-HTP was a must. It definitely works to help replenish serotonin.
    Not saying that I did or did not, but it definitely alleviates that E crash big time.The E crash of course is the point when the effects wear off and you were brimming with serotonin and then the levels just fall off a cliff. Depression city.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    Do you have any experience with Relora pre-bed?
    I do. I use the Swanson product, along with melatonin and 5-HTP.

    Works like magic.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I do. I use the Swanson product, along with melatonin and 5-HTP. Works like magic.
    Why use Melatonin and 5-HTP? I know there's different MOA's, just curious why you personally do it.

  12. Oh, and how do you like Relora standalone?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    Why use Melatonin and 5-HTP? I know there's different MOA's, just curious why you personally do it.
    I was going through a long term massively stressful time at work, and sleeping through the night was a challenge.

    Challenge solved.

  14. It's weird, I tried so many combos and variations for sleep aid and could not get it quite right so that I slept deep, but still got up not groggy, and something that didn't require multiple things. I ended up finding this combo called Advanced Sleep Aid at vitamin shoppe. It's nothing sexy, but a perfect amount of everything to achieve what I need.

    5-HTP, valerian, gaba, l-theanine, hops, and melatonin.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I was going through a long term massively stressful time at work, and sleeping through the night was a challenge.

    Challenge solved.
    can you "solve" a challenge?
    1300 pound club, 1400 in site

  16. Hey man, Beau has had to deal with enough nitpicking from the women in his past, leave him alone.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Hey man, Beau has had to deal with enough nitpicking from the women in his past, leave him alone.
    Boy, isn't that the truth, except the problem was only with one woman, my ex-wife (the adulteress).

    Its funny how life works, thought. After I divorced her, I really have been blessed.

    Just being away from her is a blessing; one I am thankful for every day.

    No, I suppose you cannot solve a challenge. I should have said, the combination allowed me to deal with the challenge, to the point that my night's became restful and, eventually, I no longer needed to rely on all three every night.

    So, for me, it worked out well.

    Most things do with the right attitude.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Even if I didn't care for their rhodiola (which I do prefer), the way that Gaia responds and is open with their processes and communication makes them a winner in my book. Based on that alone, I would recommend their products to others.

    Also, I agree with all of you on ashwaganda. It is a nice, subtle supplement. I do like it, but found that my anxiolytic stack is perfect for me without it, so I keep the cost factor down.
    Did you try the Gaia brand of ashwagandha? The actives seem really low compared to other brands but was wonder if it was still as good or better because of the quality.

  19. Yep, like all Gaia branded supps, it was of high quality. My wife loves it.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Yep, like all Gaia branded supps, it was of high quality. My wife loves it.
    Did you and your wife find it very sedating? Thinking about taking it with the rhodiola and hoping for something to take a little of the edge off my anxiety but not make me tired.

  21. Not really. My wife likes it with a stack of St Johns Wort and bocapa. Takes the edge off, she says.

    My anxiety stack that works wonders for me is:
    aniracetam 750mg 2x day
    alpha gpc 300 mg 2x day
    fish oil
    agmatine 1g day

    You may want to look into L-theanine which is great stuff and good for the day time. Until I created this stack that works for me, I went years trying to find things and l-theanine was a godsend, but after awhile, it made me a little dull. I am very sensitive to noots and adaptogens, so I had to back it off. Now I take it at night before bed.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Not really. My wife likes it with a stack of St Johns Wort and bocapa. Takes the edge off, she says.

    My anxiety stack that works wonders for me is:
    aniracetam 750mg 2x day
    alpha gpc 300 mg 2x day
    fish oil
    agmatine 1g day

    You may want to look into L-theanine which is great stuff and good for the day time. Until I created this stack that works for me, I went years trying to find things and l-theanine was a godsend, but after awhile, it made me a little dull. I am very sensitive to noots and adaptogens, so I had to back it off. Now I take it at night before bed.
    Thank you for the info. I've tried l-theanine in the past but never felt anything from it. Also tried aniracetam with cdp choline. It definitely helped a lot with anxiety but also made my brain fog worse. Recently stopped using bacopa (which was great for anxiety and focus) because it made me too tired. Thinking it combined with the rhodiola was increasing my serotonin levels too much. So, figured I'd give ashwagandha (and maybe ginko) a try with the rhodiola.

  23. Nothing better than 1 gram of l-theanine for anxiety

  24. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    If you are eating poor, you definitely want to clean that up before adding the Anabeta because that will have you eating everything you can get your hands on.
    I don't get any noticeable increase in hunger from AB as long as I eat at regular intervals. If I let myself get hungry, though, I go from hungry to ravenous super quickly. Anyway, I would not say I am eating incredibly poorly overall, but I would consider it pretty bad for me, since I have been eating a fair amount of carbs at night and also having a drink or two a few nights a week (and will throw back some chocolate more often than I would normally). I am going to tighten everything up once the AB is in, though, because I need to keep carbs a bit higher overall while dosing it (daytime), but will also be trying to cut fat at the same time. It won't be a huge change, but I will miss having a half a bagel and a beer with dinner when I feel like it. Still excited to see the results, though!

  25. Oh, well that isn't bad at all. I love carbs at night and will never give up my few IPAs during the week.
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