Adaptogens?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Oh, well that isn't bad at all. I love carbs at night and will never give up my few IPAs during the week.
    "I don't always drink - but when I do, its an IPA"

    Take that, Dos XXs.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Oh, well that isn't bad at all. I love carbs at night and will never give up my few IPAs during the week.
    Yeah good call on the IPAs, dude! We just started getting a couple of decent beers here, but I am always jealous of the variety you guys have back in the US. Every time I come back to NY to visit, I make sure to try as many new IPAs as possible as there are always some new ones making their way there. If only Three Floyds would start shipping out there again...
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  3. I'm ordering mine in next few days... Gaia or Eclectic? Or are they both decent. In all honesty, I just don't wasn't product which is a bunk extract etc

    Thanks

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post
    I'm ordering mine in next few days... Gaia or Eclectic? Or are they both decent. In all honesty, I just don't wasn't product which is a bunk extract etc

    Thanks
    Both brands seemed to be really good quality to me. However, due to the dosage differences they had different effects. If you're mainly looking for something to help with low energy levels and a slight mood boost, then I'd go with Gaia as it seems most people (including me) do better with the lower dose. Your reaction might be different though.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post
    I'm ordering mine in next few days... Gaia or Eclectic? Or are they both decent. In all honesty, I just don't wasn't product which is a bunk extract etc

    Thanks
    These are reputable brands and it's not like you are dropping $100, so I don't know why you have concern about something being "bunk". We aren't dealing with UGL or something underground. Like has been mentioned multiple times, you need to find a dose that works for you and experiment with different brands.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    "I don't always drink - but when I do, its an IPA"

    Take that, Dos XXs.
    I'm good with cans of Tecate with some lime salt dusting the top of the can.

    It's also great to dust the top of the can with that spicy lime salt sugar mixture they use on mangos.

  7. On a hot summer day when I'm at the pool, then that definitely hits the spot.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    These are reputable brands and it's not like you are dropping $100, so I don't know why you have concern about something being "bunk". We aren't dealing with UGL or something underground. Like has been mentioned multiple times, you need to find a dose that works for you and experiment with different brands.
    I will assume how I read it was not how this intended and give you the benefit of the doubt that your trying to be helpful, but with all due respect the Gaia product is around 37-40 US Dollars here in the UK which for some, (maybe not you) is a lot to pay for something that may be a useless part/ineffective part of the herb...Thus I wanted to make sure what I intend to buy has some benefit and history of positive in someone with first hand experience with it. However I do understand you point regarding this not being UGL. I hope this post is not interpreted in the wrong way, thanks again for your response.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by tristen22001 View Post
    Both brands seemed to be really good quality to me. However, due to the dosage differences they had different effects. If you're mainly looking for something to help with low energy levels and a slight mood boost, then I'd go with Gaia as it seems most people (including me) do better with the lower dose. Your reaction might be different though.
    Thanks for the reply. I was leaning towards the Eclectic product... You think that's sensible?

  10. Sorry, I didn't realize the price disparity that you see over there. I pay around $18 for it and I've come to terms in the supplement game that anything <$25 is worth trying even if it doesn't end up working. If you are paying nearly $40, I can see the hesitation.

    Understand that all I am trying to say is that many times with Rhodiola, you don't get it right the first time. If you go and read reviews on different brands, you can see that some people swear by one brand and not by others. What works for me, may not be the best for you and you may need a higher mg per serving, or a different ratio. It is trial and error. My personal experience has me preferring, in order: Gaia, Solger, ECI. Many people love the Swedish Herbal Institute brand, which I think may be cheaper in Europe based on reviews I have read.
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  11. Agreed. Rhodiola is one of the tougher herbs to pin down in terms of dose, extract ratio and your own brain chemistry. When you do get it right, the effects are awesome but until then it can be interesting ride.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Agreed. Rhodiola is one of the tougher herbs to pin down in terms of dose, extract ratio and your own brain chemistry. When you do get it right, the effects are awesome but until then it can be interesting ride.
    What have you found to be effective? Based on body weight at all?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    What have you found to be effective? Based on body weight at all?
    Not sure about body weight. I'd guess that it has more to do with individual brain chemistry than anything else. I have not experimented with a vast number of brands, though the talk of these brands in this thread has my interest piqued. Generally, regardless of brand and extract ratio, I have found smaller doses (100-150 mg) better for me. Too much gives me insomnia.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Not sure about body weight. I'd guess that it has more to do with individual brain chemistry than anything else. I have not experimented with a vast number of brands, though the talk of these brands in this thread has my interest piqued. Generally, regardless of brand and extract ratio, I have found smaller doses (100-150 mg) better for me. Too much gives me insomnia.
    It's an adaptogenic herb. As with adaptogens in general, how it effects the individual depends on the individual. The entire concept of adaptogens is for it to bring one back to or closer to homeostasis. So if you're in a state which you need a bit more help, you would probably feel the effects more. If you don't really need much help to begin with, you would most likely not feel very notable acute effects. These things are simply not a stimulant where regardless of your level of balance, you're going to feel a stimulant as long as you are sensitive enough to the stimulant.

    If I recall correctly, adaptogens also work mainly on the adrenal gland (adrenal medulla to be specific I believe) with possible effects at the cellular level. So I don't think brain chemistry really has much to do with it unless we are talking about effects on the brain due to adrenal gland activity. I suppose certain issues with the hypothalamus and/or pituitary gland could also have an effect on your adrenal gland, but nonetheless, I'm pretty sure one of the main criteria for something to be categorized as an adaptogen is that it needs to mainly affect the adrenal gland.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    It's an adaptogenic herb. As with adaptogens in general, how it effects the individual depends on the individual. The entire concept of adaptogens is for it to bring one back to or closer to homeostasis. So if you're in a state which you need a bit more help, you would probably feel the effects more. If you don't really need much help to begin with, you would most likely not feel very notable acute effects. These things are simply not a stimulant where regardless of your level of balance, you're going to feel a stimulant as long as you are sensitive enough to the stimulant.

    If I recall correctly, adaptogens also work mainly on the adrenal gland (adrenal medulla to be specific I believe) with possible effects at the cellular level. So I don't think brain chemistry really has much to do with it unless we are talking about effects on the brain due to adrenal gland activity.

    I somewhat disagree. "Adaptogen" is a term and concept that is not universally accepted in either alternative or mainstream medicine and it technically applies to all systems of the body adapting to stressors/harmful effects. Adrenals tend to the be target of many adaptogens, such as Ginseng, but the concept applies to whole body health. In any case the research behind Rhodiola does indicate very specific serotonin, epi, nor-epi and dopamine enhancing effects outside of the plethora of other effects that are chalked up to "adaptogenisis". Studies have shown small doses of RR increase serotonin and epi whereas large doses somehow work on the GABA system leading to sedation. As much as I would love to believe that RR, at any old dose, will go to work on me and do exactly what my body needs it to do..that has not been my experience at all and I have experimented with this herb, as well as reviewed the literature, for a decent number of years.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    I somewhat disagree. "Adaptogen" is a term and concept that is not universally accepted in either alternative or mainstream medicine and it technically applies to all systems of the body adapting to stressors/harmful effects. Adrenals tend to the be target of many adaptogens, such as Ginseng, but the concept applies to whole body health. In any case the research behind Rhodiola does indicate very specific serotonin, epi, nor-epi and dopamine enhancing effects outside of the plethora of other effects that are chalked up to "adaptogenisis". Studies have shown small doses of RR increase serotonin and epi whereas large doses somehow work on the GABA system leading to sedation. As much as I would love to believe that RR, at any old dose, will go to work on me and do exactly what my body needs it to do..that has not been my experience at all and I have experimented with this herb, as well as reviewed the literature, for a decent number of years.
    Actually, it was generally accepted by the 1980s that adaptogens mainly affected the sympathetic nervous system. That's the system that is responsible for the fight or flight response in which your adrenal gland is responsible for much of the hormones which are released due to it (main one of course is cortisol). There's obviously parts of rhodiola which have effects but not all of those effects or parts of the herb is adaptogenic or can be considered an adaptogen.

    Just to briefly break down the history of the definition of adaptogens:

    non-specific remedies "that increase resistance to a broad spectrum of harmful factors (stressors) of different physical, chemical and biological natures

    That definition was originally termed and intended to be used to categorize dibazol 12-benzyl benzimidazol which was an arterial dilator. The definition has actually since been updated to:

    new class of metabolic regulators (of a natural origin) which increase the ability of an organism to adapt to environmental factors and to avoid damage from such factors.

    By then, in which I mean the 1980s, there had been extensive amounts of research which demonstrated that adaptogens operated on the sympathetic nervous system. The problem these days however is that people have just stuck with the original definition of adaptogens (which by the way, was never really intended to define what we now know and consider to be adaptogens, it was merely a way for N.V. Lazarev to categorize and describe the effects of dibazol 12-benzyl benzimidazol). It is currently well known and accepted in the herbal community that adaptogens do in actuality have to essentially operate on your adrenal gland for it to be considered a true adaptogen (amongst some other criterias, but the main MOA is that it mainly affects your adrenal gland).

  17. I feel great on Rhodiola, but alas after a few days I too can't sleep; surprisingly I don't feel tired the following day. It can't be healthy, not sleeping for more than a couple of days, despite not feeling tired.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I was leaning towards the Eclectic product... You think that's sensible?
    It's a good brand/product and might work better for you than the Gaia brand (won't know until you try). If you find the dosage of the Eclectic product to be too high, you could always just open the capsules (mix half with a liquid and drink it; close the capsule with the remaining half). If cost is an issue, it seems like these would be a very cheap approach as it would last you twice as long. I tried this with that brand before switching back to Gaia and it seemed to work better at this lower dosage (but still preferred Gaia a little bit more). Also, I'm just really lazy and don't like messing with splitting doses.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    I feel great on Rhodiola, but alas after a few days I too can't sleep; surprisingly I don't feel tired the following day. It can't be healthy, not sleeping for more than a couple of days, despite not feeling tired.
    Yes, that is the beauty of it. RR got me through the infant stage of my kids and I was never tired. People couldn't figure it out.

  20. For anyone taking bacopa...what's your preferred brand? I've tried Swanson's Bacozine (250 mg) and Himalaya Pure Herbs twice each day and both have caused sedation (taking it with rhodiola). Also, if you've found something that stacks well with it that negates the sedative aspect, I'd appreciate that information too. I'd really like to keep bacopa because it seems to work well for focus.

  21. The Himilaya version I have are tablets..perhaps splitting the dose in half would help? I only dose it once per day as 2x per day definitely leaves me feeling spacey.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    The Himilaya version I have are tablets..perhaps splitting the dose in half would help? I only dose it once per day as 2x per day definitely leaves me feeling spacey.
    Good idea. I'll give that a try. Thank you.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by tristen22001 View Post
    It's a good brand/product and might work better for you than the Gaia brand (won't know until you try). If you find the dosage of the Eclectic product to be too high, you could always just open the capsules (mix half with a liquid and drink it; close the capsule with the remaining half). If cost is an issue, it seems like these would be a very cheap approach as it would last you twice as long. I tried this with that brand before switching back to Gaia and it seemed to work better at this lower dosage (but still preferred Gaia a little bit more). Also, I'm just really lazy and don't like messing with splitting doses.
    My only issue with trying the Gaia product is it is expensive here in the UK and if used recommend dose (2 caps per day) it will only last 1 month...
    How many do you use per day of Gaia?

  24. Look at the Solger brand. Very similar to Gaia in terms of potency, if not slightly higher. See if that is a bit cheaper.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by tristen22001 View Post
    Both brands seemed to be really good quality to me. However, due to the dosage differences they had different effects. If you're mainly looking for something to help with low energy levels and a slight mood boost, then I'd go with Gaia as it seems most people (including me) do better with the lower dose. Your reaction might be different though.
    Looking more for the mood boost aspect and energy is a plus, I guess I could try electric institute and if I'm not happy try the Gaia. But if I use Gaia, I will probably only use 1 per day unless I really feel 2 will be of benefit.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Sorry, I didn't realize the price disparity that you see over there. I pay around $18 for it and I've come to terms in the supplement game that anything <$25 is worth trying even if it doesn't end up working. If you are paying nearly $40, I can see the hesitation. Understand that all I am trying to say is that many times with Rhodiola, you don't get it right the first time. If you go and read reviews on different brands, you can see that some people swear by one brand and not by others. What works for me, may not be the best for you and you may need a higher mg per serving, or a different ratio. It is trial and error. My personal experience has me preferring, in order: Gaia, Solger, ECI. Many people love the Swedish Herbal Institute brand, which I think may be cheaper in Europe based on reviews I have read.
    Apparently its discontinued... Lol

    I will look at Gaia and anything else you suggest. I will see if I can find swedish herbal institute at reasonable price. What is ECI?

    Thanks again

  27. Has anyone noticed a pretty big increase in irritability/anger when taking bacopa? I've noticed that I become very short tempered when taking it but nothing has worked better for me with regard to focus and "brain fog". So, I'm trying to figure out why it might be causing the anger issues.

  28. This thread seems to be where all the herbal experts reside. So I'm hoping someone in here can help me with a question I've been trying to answer. I'm having trouble finding/understanding bacopa's interaction with acetylcholine. All I've been able to determine so far from sources online is that is modulates levels of acetylcholine. So, my question is, how does this compare to choline precursors and ache inhibitors? In other words, would bacopa's modulation of acetylcholine make it possible to take it with a racetam and no other choline source? Also, since bacopa impacts levels of dopamine and serotonin, would it interfer with something like aniracetam?

  29. I had to stop taking Aniracetam once I added Bacopa back in. I love Ani, but I took it to combat anxiety and Bacopa is 10x better for that. I was getting very tired mentally having both of them in the mix and once I dropped the Ani, mental energy peaked.

    As far as interactions with cholines, I take Alpha GPC with it and it works like a charm.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I had to stop taking Aniracetam once I added Bacopa back in. I love Ani, but I took it to combat anxiety and Bacopa is 10x better for that. I was getting very tired mentally having both of them in the mix and once I dropped the Ani, mental energy peaked.

    As far as interactions with cholines, I take Alpha GPC with it and it works like a charm.
    What dose of Aniracetam and Bacopa were you using when taking them at the same time? I'm currently taking Aniracetam and Galantamine (any other choline source results in headaches; even at low doses). However, the cost of Galantamine is a little tough on the wallet; even at just 4 - 8 mg each day. Was hoping Bacopa's interaction with acetylcholine levels would make it a good, and mild, substitute for Galantamine (even though they're very different nootropics).
  

  
 

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