what is happenning with Thermolife?

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    what is happenning with Thermolife?


    They used to have good products, altough some were a bit controversial, strong presence on the forums and some experient reps, but they seem to out of business...

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    No they are working on big things. Expect awesomeness soon.

    I've been privileged to a little peek behind the curtains and it is impressive to say the least.
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    excelente then
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSmith View Post
    No they are working on big things. Expect awesomeness soon. I've been privileged to a little peek behind the curtains and it is impressive to say the least.
    A pre?
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    They run the patent business now

    Hide yo kids
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob112 View Post
    They run the patent business now Hide yo kids
    Lol. They do that for sure. They patent everything. At least they have QA though. It's worth a little extra price to know you're not ingesting eth or some other illicit compound.
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    RK makes more from his patents than he ever did from his supplements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amarula View Post
    They used to have good products, altough some were a bit controversial, strong presence on the forums and some experient reps, but they seem to out of business...
    They contacted me a while back to rep for them and I wanted to get more information about them...well the rep who contacted me could never get a hold of the main rep or owner... haven't heard from them since lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    They contacted me a while back to rep for them and I wanted to get more information about them...well the rep who contacted me could never get a hold of the main rep or owner... haven't heard from them since lol
    thermolife forums. Ron Kramer is on there all the time if you want more info. Good company and when available they make amazing products
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    thermolife forums. Ron Kramer is on there all the time if you want more info. Good company and when available they make amazing products
    i dont need any info on them lol i was just stating my experience with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    i dont need any info on them lol i was just stating my experience with them.
    Fo sho. We got the same favorite book lol
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    You can still buy their products off their main page, but from the forums it seems they're cracking down on nitrate patent infringements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Engineer View Post
    You can still buy their products off their main page, but from the forums it seems they're cracking down on nitrate patent infringements.
    Patent #? And I'm surprised they could get a patent for nitrates, would like to see the claims.

    Also I'm sure these companies make money but patent enforcement is a lot costlier than you think. It's about $10-15k just to file for one, which may be rejected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    Patent #? And I'm surprised they could get a patent for nitrates, would like to see the claims.

    Also I'm sure these companies make money but patent enforcement is a lot costlier than you think. It's about $10-15k just to file for one, which may be rejected.
    They have a patent for nitrates but i'm unsure of the exact details. But RK is in the business of enforcing his patents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    RK makes more from his patents than he ever did from his supplements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    They have a patent for nitrates but i'm unsure of the exact details. But RK is in the business of enforcing his patents.
    Innovation at its finest. Who needs to come out with new products when you can monopolize ingredients?! Who cares if the consumer gets effed in the long run as long as they get their cash
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    Patent #? And I'm surprised they could get a patent for nitrates, would like to see the claims.

    Also I'm sure these companies make money but patent enforcement is a lot costlier than you think. It's about $10-15k just to file for one, which may be rejected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Innovation at its finest. Who needs to come out with new products when you can monopolize ingredients?! Who cares if the consumer gets effed in the long run as long as they get their cash
    Who needs innovation when you can just copy someone else's R&D? How dare someone actually seek enforcement on a patented compound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony soprano View Post
    Who needs innovation when you can just copy someone else's R&D? How dare someone actually seek enforcement on a patented compound.
    Thermolife rep? Or RK?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Thermolife rep? Or RK?
    No, just someone that was awake in business school when the relationship between property rights and capitalism was discussed.

    And you? Rep for a company that can't be bothered with an R&D budget?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony soprano View Post
    No, just someone that was awake in business school when the relationship between property rights and capitalism was discussed.

    And you? Rep for a company that can't be bothered with an R&D budget?
    Wasn't judging TL or RK. Simply stating facts.
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    How are nitrates, DAA, "innovative"?? They were both on the market LONG before they ever go their hands on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Wasn't judging TL or RK. Simply stating facts.
    I'm not sure how asking me if I'm a Thermolife rep or RK is "simply stating facts." My post history is brief enough to determine I've never previously mentioned Thermolife or any supplement they sell.
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    Has anyone seen this? At least this helps the consumer a bit!


    http://www.iptoday.com/news-article.asp?id=8426&type=ip
    Cantor Colburn LLP Wins Summary Judgment for a Host of Nutritional Supplement Defendants

    Monday, October 14, 2013

    Plaintiff has filed more than 100 patent infringements suits in past year

    A federal judge in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California invalidated a nutritional supplement patent held by Plaintiff Thermolife International LLC and granted summary judgment to a host of Defendants. Thermolife has filed more than 100 patent infringement suits concerning such supplements in various jurisdictions since 2012. Cantor Colburn partner Jeffery B. Arnold, who specializes in pharmaceutical and nutritional supplement litigation and intellectual property protection, coordinateda joint defense effort among several of the defendants, resulting in a cost-effective defense for the respective clients. Cantor Colburn Partner and Litigation Practice Co-Chair William J. Cass argued the case on behalf of the defendants in the proceeding.

    “Our goal was to expedite a motion schedule without protracted discovery,” said Arnold, “which we were able to accomplish."

    U.S. District Judge Gary A. Feess found U.S. Patent Number 8,202,908 invalid and granted summary judgment to a host of Defendants, including Bio-Engineered Supplements and Nutrition Inc.; Bronson Laboratories Inc.; Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Inc.; Infinite Labs LLC; Lecheek LLC; Maximum Human Performance LLC; Muscle Warfare Inc.; Nutrex Research Inc; Pharmafreak Holdings Inc.; Purus Labs Inc.; Reaction Nutrition LLC; SNI LLC; Lone Star Distribution, Inc.; All Star Health; Redefine Nutrition LLC; S A N Nutrition Group; GNC Corporation; General Nutrition Centers Inc.; General Nutrition Corporation; Kilosports Inc.; DNA Sports Nutrition; Nutrition Zone Worldwide Inc.; and Nutraplanet.

    Judge Feess' ruling ends 12 months of litigation between the parties. Thermolife sued several of the defendants in October, 2012, but the case was dismissed without prejudice for violation of the American Invents Act (AIA). Thereafter, Thermolife filed several individual actions, which were subsequently consolidated for discovery by Judge Feess. Thermolife claimed defendants’ respective products containing D-aspartic acid violated the two method claims of the ‘908 patent, entitled “D-aspartic Acid Supplement.” The claims of the ‘908 patent are directed to a method of increasing male testosterone, growth hormone and/or insulin-like growth factor by orally ingesting a D-aspartic acid compound.

    Defendants filed for summary judgment in July, arguing that the ‘908 patent was anticipated by an Italian patent application made publically available one year and two weeks before the earliest priority date. Thermolife asserted that the publication was not “published” nor publically available until after the one-year priority date. Judge Feess agreed with defendants and declared the ‘908 as anticipated by the reference.

    Lecheek LLC; Maximum Human Performance LLC; Purus Labs Inc; Reaction Nutrition LLC; Lone Star Distribution; All Star Health; Redefine Nutrition LLC; and Nutraplanet are represented by Cantor Colburn LLP.

    “This was a team effort by the defendants and their counsel to stand up to a vexatious litigant,” said Cass.

    The case is ThermoLife International LLC v. Better Body Sports LLC et al., case 2:12-cv-09229-GAF-FFM, in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California.

    About Cantor Colburn LLP

    Cantor Colburn is one of the largest, full-service intellectual property law firms in the country, with growing offices in Hartford, Washington, D.C., Atlanta, Houston, and Detroit. The attorneys in Cantor Colburn’s litigation practice have extensive and diverse experience in intellectual property, commercial, and business litigation cases. In recent rankings, Cantor Colburn was ranked 7th in the country for issued U.S. Patents and 24th for registered U.S. Trademarks. As well, the firm has extensive practice in other intellectual property areas, such as validity and infringement opinions, reexaminations, interferences, licensing, due diligence regarding acquisitions and divestitures, and technology transfer agreements. The firm’s clients are among the leading companies in the United States and around the world, including Fortune 100 companies, privately-held companies, select high tech start-ups, and universities. For more information, go to www.cantorcolburn.com.
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    ^^^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by megadeth View Post
    How are nitrates, DAA, "innovative"?? They were both on the market LONG before they ever go their hands on them.
    He must've acquired the right to the patents from another company, which is looks like from the patents I checked out. He also filed for reexamination of the nitrates one on Aug 23, likely to add even more claims. "Innovative" isn't nearly the strict requirement you'd think it is Also he must have a ton of money to continually enforce these patents. IP is huge $, big wins and losses

    My guess is that he settles out of court by threatening smaller supp companies. Very few can withstand litigation prices
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    He must've acquired the right to the patents from another company, which is looks like from the patents I checked out. He also filed for reexamination of the nitrates one on Aug 23, likely to add even more claims. "Innovative" isn't nearly the strict requirement you'd think it is Also he must have a ton of money to continually enforce these patents. IP is huge $, big wins and losses

    My guess is that he settles out of court by threatening smaller supp companies. Very few can withstand litigation prices
    Yeah, I know he acquired the rights for DAA from Patrick Arnold. I was just making the point that true "innovation" on RK's part seems to have had nothing to do with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    He must've acquired the right to the patents from another company, which is looks like from the patents I checked out. He also filed for reexamination of the nitrates one on Aug 23, likely to add even more claims. "Innovative" isn't nearly the strict requirement you'd think it is Also he must have a ton of money to continually enforce these patents. IP is huge $, big wins and losses

    My guess is that he settles out of court by threatening smaller supp companies. Very few can withstand litigation prices
    Actually he treats all the same. He has been more than fair with SNS in regards to his patented ingrds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megadeth View Post
    How are nitrates, DAA, "innovative"?? They were both on the market LONG before they ever go their hands on them.
    I don't know of any sup company that used nitrates before his patent. I believe XF, who licensed who TL, was the first to use nitrates in Ice +

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Actually he treats all the same. He has been more than fair with SNS in regards to his patented ingrds.
    What has he gone after you guys for?I also heard he's going after PES for their leucine nitrate found in Enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Engineer View Post
    What has he gone after you guys for?I also heard he's going after PES for their leucine nitrate found in Enhanced.
    I'm pretty sure PES has sourced their nitrates legitimately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    I don't know of any sup company that used nitrates before his patent. I believe XF, who licensed who TL, was the first to use nitrates in Ice +
    What about Potassium Nitrate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by megadeth View Post
    What about Potassium Nitrate?
    Ron's patent is mainly oriented towards amino acids nitrate salts, which are indubitably novel & innovative (creatine nitrate).

    Potassium nitrate is an atomic nitrate salt, and was not used for the purposes covered by the patent, nor was it on the supplement market until recently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by megadeth View Post
    Has anyone seen this? At least this helps the consumer a bit!
    Your post speaks more to the unscrupulous/immoral nature of the supplement industry more then to Ron Kramers greed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Innovation at its finest. Who needs to come out with new products when you can monopolize ingredients?! Who cares if the consumer gets effed in the long run as long as they get their cash
    Ron has tested creatine nitrate that various companies have sourced from China, and none of them contained creatine nitrate.

    I would think buying bunk product would be more concerning to the consumer versus paying more to guarantee higher quality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Engineer View Post
    What has he gone after you guys for?I also heard he's going after PES for their leucine nitrate found in Enhanced.
    In regards to potentially licensing product from him ,.not enforcement

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    I don't know of any sup company that used nitrates before his patent. I believe XF, who licensed who TL, was the first to use nitrates in Ice +
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    Ron has tested creatine nitrate that various companies have sourced from China, and none of them contained creatine nitrate.

    I would think buying bunk product would be more concerning to the consumer versus paying more to guarantee higher quality.

    So your saying that the companies buying from China couldn't/wouldn't decide to test for themselves and to make sure their product is legit? In your scenario there is only 2 possible outcomes. Buy bunk Chinese or buy from RK.

    1. So your inferring that not one Chinese source is legit
    2. If brought to enough manufacturers attention, they would not improve the quality of their product.

    While the first might be possible, I don't think the second is. If the bottom fell out of creatine nitrate sales because of quality, I am sure the problem would get fixed.
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    RK has literally done nothing wrong. When apple or samsung develop technology, they patent it to protect it. Its the same for every big company out there.

    Its jus that at the moment, people are using their patented products without consent, hence why TL is enforcing those ATM
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    Quote Originally Posted by megadeth View Post
    So your saying that the companies buying from China couldn't/wouldn't decide to test for themselves and to make sure their product is legit? In your scenario there is only 2 possible outcomes. Buy bunk Chinese or buy from RK.

    1. So your inferring that not one Chinese source is legit
    2. If brought to enough manufacturers attention, they would not improve the quality of their product.

    While the first might be possible, I don't think the second is. If the bottom fell out of creatine nitrate sales because of quality, I am sure the problem would get fixed.
    You've been around since 2002, I think you know that the vast majority of companies don't test anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post

    APS
    Xf had it years before APS

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