amarula
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They used to have good products, altough some were a bit controversial, strong presence on the forums and some experient reps, but they seem to out of business...
A pre?No they are working on big things. Expect awesomeness soon. I've been privileged to a little peek behind the curtains and it is impressive to say the least.
Lol. They do that for sure. They patent everything. At least they have QA though. It's worth a little extra price to know you're not ingesting eth or some other illicit compound.They run the patent business now Hide yo kids
They contacted me a while back to rep for them and I wanted to get more information about them...well the rep who contacted me could never get a hold of the main rep or owner... haven't heard from them since lolThey used to have good products, altough some were a bit controversial, strong presence on the forums and some experient reps, but they seem to out of business...
thermolife forums. Ron Kramer is on there all the time if you want more info. Good company and when available they make amazing productsThey contacted me a while back to rep for them and I wanted to get more information about them...well the rep who contacted me could never get a hold of the main rep or owner... haven't heard from them since lol
i dont need any info on them lol i was just stating my experience with them.thermolife forums. Ron Kramer is on there all the time if you want more info. Good company and when available they make amazing products
Fo sho. We got the same favorite book loli dont need any info on them lol i was just stating my experience with them.
Patent #? And I'm surprised they could get a patent for nitrates, would like to see the claims.You can still buy their products off their main page, but from the forums it seems they're cracking down on nitrate patent infringements.
They have a patent for nitrates but i'm unsure of the exact details. But RK is in the business of enforcing his patents.Patent #? And I'm surprised they could get a patent for nitrates, would like to see the claims.
Also I'm sure these companies make money but patent enforcement is a lot costlier than you think. It's about $10-15k just to file for one, which may be rejected.
RK makes more from his patents than he ever did from his supplements.
Innovation at its finest. Who needs to come out with new products when you can monopolize ingredients?! Who cares if the consumer gets effed in the long run as long as they get their cashThey have a patent for nitrates but i'm unsure of the exact details. But RK is in the business of enforcing his patents.
Google it he's got itPatent #? And I'm surprised they could get a patent for nitrates, would like to see the claims.
Also I'm sure these companies make money but patent enforcement is a lot costlier than you think. It's about $10-15k just to file for one, which may be rejected.
Who needs innovation when you can just copy someone else's R&D? How dare someone actually seek enforcement on a patented compound.Innovation at its finest. Who needs to come out with new products when you can monopolize ingredients?! Who cares if the consumer gets effed in the long run as long as they get their cash
Thermolife rep? Or RK?Who needs innovation when you can just copy someone else's R&D? How dare someone actually seek enforcement on a patented compound.
No, just someone that was awake in business school when the relationship between property rights and capitalism was discussed.Thermolife rep? Or RK?
Wasn't judging TL or RK. Simply stating facts.No, just someone that was awake in business school when the relationship between property rights and capitalism was discussed.
And you? Rep for a company that can't be bothered with an R&D budget?
I'm not sure how asking me if I'm a Thermolife rep or RK is "simply stating facts." My post history is brief enough to determine I've never previously mentioned Thermolife or any supplement they sell.Wasn't judging TL or RK. Simply stating facts.
He must've acquired the right to the patents from another company, which is looks like from the patents I checked out. He also filed for reexamination of the nitrates one on Aug 23, likely to add even more claims. "Innovative" isn't nearly the strict requirement you'd think it is Also he must have a ton of money to continually enforce these patents. IP is huge $, big wins and lossesHow are nitrates, DAA, "innovative"?? They were both on the market LONG before they ever go their hands on them.
Yeah, I know he acquired the rights for DAA from Patrick Arnold. I was just making the point that true "innovation" on RK's part seems to have had nothing to do with it.He must've acquired the right to the patents from another company, which is looks like from the patents I checked out. He also filed for reexamination of the nitrates one on Aug 23, likely to add even more claims. "Innovative" isn't nearly the strict requirement you'd think it is Also he must have a ton of money to continually enforce these patents. IP is huge $, big wins and losses
My guess is that he settles out of court by threatening smaller supp companies. Very few can withstand litigation prices
Actually he treats all the same. He has been more than fair with SNS in regards to his patented ingrds.He must've acquired the right to the patents from another company, which is looks like from the patents I checked out. He also filed for reexamination of the nitrates one on Aug 23, likely to add even more claims. "Innovative" isn't nearly the strict requirement you'd think it is Also he must have a ton of money to continually enforce these patents. IP is huge $, big wins and losses
My guess is that he settles out of court by threatening smaller supp companies. Very few can withstand litigation prices
I don't know of any sup company that used nitrates before his patent. I believe XF, who licensed who TL, was the first to use nitrates in Ice +How are nitrates, DAA, "innovative"?? They were both on the market LONG before they ever go their hands on them.
What has he gone after you guys for?I also heard he's going after PES for their leucine nitrate found in Enhanced.Actually he treats all the same. He has been more than fair with SNS in regards to his patented ingrds.
I'm pretty sure PES has sourced their nitrates legitimately.What has he gone after you guys for?I also heard he's going after PES for their leucine nitrate found in Enhanced.
What about Potassium Nitrate?I don't know of any sup company that used nitrates before his patent. I believe XF, who licensed who TL, was the first to use nitrates in Ice +
Ron's patent is mainly oriented towards amino acids nitrate salts, which are indubitably novel & innovative (creatine nitrate).What about Potassium Nitrate?
Your post speaks more to the unscrupulous/immoral nature of the supplement industry more then to Ron Kramers greed.Has anyone seen this? At least this helps the consumer a bit!
Ron has tested creatine nitrate that various companies have sourced from China, and none of them contained creatine nitrate.Innovation at its finest. Who needs to come out with new products when you can monopolize ingredients?! Who cares if the consumer gets effed in the long run as long as they get their cash
In regards to potentially licensing product from him ,.not enforcementWhat has he gone after you guys for?I also heard he's going after PES for their leucine nitrate found in Enhanced.
APSI don't know of any sup company that used nitrates before his patent. I believe XF, who licensed who TL, was the first to use nitrates in Ice +
Ron has tested creatine nitrate that various companies have sourced from China, and none of them contained creatine nitrate.
I would think buying bunk product would be more concerning to the consumer versus paying more to guarantee higher quality.
You've been around since 2002, I think you know that the vast majority of companies don't test anything.So your saying that the companies buying from China couldn't/wouldn't decide to test for themselves and to make sure their product is legit? In your scenario there is only 2 possible outcomes. Buy bunk Chinese or buy from RK.
1. So your inferring that not one Chinese source is legit
2. If brought to enough manufacturers attention, they would not improve the quality of their product.
While the first might be possible, I don't think the second is. If the bottom fell out of creatine nitrate sales because of quality, I am sure the problem would get fixed.
Xf had it years before APS
Exactly.RK has literally done nothing wrong. When apple or samsung develop technology, they patent it to protect it. Its the same for every big company out there.
Its jus that at the moment, people are using their patented products without consent, hence why TL is enforcing those ATM
I didn't know that is still the case. If it is, that certainly is a shame.You've been around since 2002, I think you know that the vast majority of companies don't test anything.
It is cheaper to purchase these patented ingredients legitimately then to source then from China and then perform an independent analysis.I didn't know that is still the case. If it is, that certainly is ashamed.
Well said.It is cheaper to purchase these patented ingredients legitimately then to source then from China and then perform an independent analysis.
The type of person to disregard a patent for monetary gain will be the first to forgo lab tests for authenticity.
Probably don't want to throw apple in there. They have had a lot of success stealing ideas and filing before another company. They have little to no innovation, just fantastic marketing. They abuse the **** out of the US patent system which is highly flawed compared to other international patents. It's also why they lost in most foreign countries.RK has literally done nothing wrong. When apple or samsung develop technology, they patent it to protect it. Its the same for every big company out there. Its jus that at the moment, people are using their patented products without consent, hence why TL is enforcing those ATM
Are you talking about apple or thermolife? lolProbably don't want to throw apple in there. They have had a lot of success stealing ideas and filing before another company. They have little to no innovation, just fantastic marketing. They abuse the **** out of the US patent system which is highly flawed compared to other international patents. It's also why they lost in most foreign countries.
Patents are a touchy subject because there's a lot of ways to manipulate and get greedy. But...writing them pays the bills, very well
What has he gone after you guys for?I also heard he's going after PES for their leucine nitrate found in Enhanced.
IronFist is correct.I'm pretty sure PES has sourced their nitrates legitimately.
http://www.thermolife.com/forum/t3891/#post43069PES does license Leucine nitrate.
Thanks!!
Apple lol. At least it appears RK pays for the licenses or IP before he enforces it. I'm a patent attorney so I have mixed feelings on this stuff. Overall I'm not a fan though, I prefer the inventors to keep and enforce their patents because they put the work inAre you talking about apple or thermolife? lol
lol...isn't the reason for the patent monetary gain...i thought monetary gain was the name of the game!!!It is cheaper to purchase these patented ingredients legitimately then to source then from China and then perform an independent analysis.
The type of person to disregard a patent for monetary gain will be the first to forgo lab tests for authenticity.
That's not what is happening. Maybe you should investigate the patents he has before criticizing them?lol...isn't the reason for the patent monetary gain...i thought monetary gain was the name of the game!!!
it sounds to me like this bk guy is trying to buy up patents on everything he can so that in order to do business in the supp industry you have to go thru him....
isn't this what rockefeller tried to do with standard oil??? it's called a monopoly,when a certain person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity-look it up!!!