Your Best Sleep Aid
- 10-21-2013, 07:19 PM
So for both a sleep REGULATOR and a sleep INDUCER, Abyss Unparalleled is far superior to melatonin. Heck, getting in some l-dopa + GABA is going to be superior for most people, along with some . Basically, if you have no real issues with FALLING to sleep in the first place, melatonin can be helpful getting you a better sleep, but it's not great for putting you to sleep.
Yeah, it could regulate your sleep cycle to some extent but again, the issue for most people is that they also need something to help have them go to sleep. If you're only argument is that melatonin is cheap, I can't argue, but your original post was implying that melatonin is just as good as sleep aid supplements which is just false.
- 10-21-2013, 07:24 PM
- 10-21-2013, 07:32 PM
10-21-2013, 09:10 PM
Yes and no... its used to fall asleep AND stay asleep. Although your brain releases it to stay asleep mostly. We even produce more in the winter months because of the shorter days.
It seems to have a window that if I don't catch I'll have to take more. Sometimes I'll wake up if I don't take enough but it hits most people hard and fast. Its like a sleep bomb for me. I can literally feel it come over me and then just shut my eyes.
That's why your brain releases it in stead streams. To stay asleep... So, when you take it all at once it also puts you to sleep, fast.
Everyone is different. How much did you take? I take up to 4-6 mg sometimes and I'm asleep in minutes. Same goes for many I've had this convo with. I've seen people on here who use 10-15mg on cycle to knock themselves out.
10-21-2013, 10:41 PM
I've used upwards of 50mg. I slowly built a tolerance(in terms of not being groggy in the morning), however it always remained effective. Functionally, I agree that it both induces and maintains sleep, as well as regulates the overall sleep cycle. Massively oversimplified of course, but it's a hormone with wide ranging importance that's being researched for antioxidant/anticancer/antiinflammatory properties.
After my sleep cycle was completely derailed from doing a few years' worth of owl surveys (heavy exertion all night long) I started using melatonin in higher and higher doses and sometimes stacked it with 12 mg of benadryl. That combo righted my sleep cycle that had been wrecked for years. Beats drinking one's self to sleep.
10-22-2013, 01:01 AM
10-22-2013, 01:08 AM
10-22-2013, 01:10 AM
Had first dose of abyss last night, had a great nights sleep. Still to early to say until it becomes a regular thing, but had a great nights sleep for sure. Things are looking good
10-22-2013, 03:26 AM
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
10-22-2013, 04:25 AM
If you look at the research on melatonin though, you will see why it's not very effective at putting one to sleep. As you said, there is a window. The reason for this is that it works differently when orally administered compared to what you body naturally produces. Orally, you get a burst of it but it doesn't act the same as what you body produces naturally. When produced naturally, it has an entire body calming effect. When taken orally, it tends to not have that entire body calming effect. It's different for everybody but at the end of the day, it's ultimately useful for helping you get your biological sleep clock back on track but not very good at inducing sleep. If you need to take 4-6 mg's of the stuff and like you have mentioned, 10-15 mg's for some people, that should have indicated to you that it's inexpensive but not very effective. You're basically going multiple times over what is supposed to be an optimal dose (optimal dose should really be a gram or less, I've tried mega dosing it like I've mentioned, ended up having more sides).
10-22-2013, 08:22 AM
There is no exact "set time". I'll argue to the death that it affects me FAR before an hour. We are only human, Coop. Everyone is different. 30 min is not a stretch in any way to induce sleep from melatonin. My girlfriend takes it religiously too because of me and same goes for her... Around 30 min= gniiiiiight. It affects her even more than me. I mean... she's out!
10-22-2013, 08:41 AM
They come in 3mg and 5mg pills OTC when I buy them. Taking 1mg wouldn't do much for me.
Hey, I'm just trying to help and based on the hundred times I've seen this thread, many users feel the same way as me. Sorry it doesnt work for you but its super cheap and effective for the people who swear by it. So, if you're reading this and haven't thought about using it rather than paying 20x more for a fancy sleep aid then you owe yourself to try it. It will cost more in gas money to get to the store.
10-22-2013, 09:29 AM
Sleep aids are also pretty inexpensive and are very effective. There's a LOT of things you can spend your $20-$30 on which would be ineffective and useless for the most part. There is however a good number of excellent sleep aids which are very effective. Abyss Unparalleled is probably the best you can get and it's only $20-$30 a bottle, so very inexpensive as well. Plus something like Abyss Unparalleled has extra benefits beyond just helping one with sleep.
10-22-2013, 10:12 AM
Again, that's a bummer and I'm sorry, but you just can't vouch for its effectiveness on anyone but yourself, man.
I'll stick to $3 a bottle because it works for me and then spend the other $27 on steak and potatoes. Only $20-30 a bottle (30 servings) to get a "good night's sleep with added benefits"... Good lawd. Supps are fun, if they weren't people wouldn't waste billions... yea billions... every year. I'm in the wrong business!
10-22-2013, 10:23 AM
1) Not very effective since you are going WAY over what should have been an optimal dose @ 1 gram or less.
2) You have not even bothered to compare and contrast melatonin to other sleep aid supplements.
Again, it's obvious that you are just trying to penny pinch at this point rather than being objective with what really does work well and what doesn't work well. Then there's the whole issue of you not actually understanding how melatonin works, how it works, what it actually does, and the HUGE difference between orally administered melatonin vs. the melatonin your body produces, which is an entirely other huge can of worms which you seem to be completely negligent of.
Hey, you want to penny pinch and just merrily assume that melatonin is just as good or comes anywhere close to good sleep aid supplements, that's your prerogative, just don't come out claiming it as if this was fact. Penny pinching is an entirely different issue than what is effective and what is not.
As for me vouching for things, AT MINIMUM I've used what I have talked about/mentioned thus AT BARE MINIMUM I have a basis for comparison that goes far beyond just looking at cost. You on the other hand, I highly doubt you can really substantiate your claims here.
Lastly, there's a reason why medically, melatonin has only really been recommended to treat circadian rhythm disorders but not really recommended all that much as an actual sleep aid apart from being recommended by folks like yourself whom are taking a ton of it (way over what should have been an optimal dose) just to get an effect from it. When you are taking something at 3-4 times the optimal dose, what you are taking obviously isn't all that great and useful. Then there's that other poster in this thread that has said he took 50 mg's. Does common sense here not surface? For goodness sakes, PRESCRIPTION time release melatonin is like 2 mg's. Does this not tell you ANYTHING?
10-22-2013, 10:44 AM
then again, I found something that works for me for pennies on the dollar. I don't mean to brag when I say penny pinching is not something I have to do, not by a long shot.
At the end of the day, I'm not lining the pockets of supp industry people yet I'm still killing it every day at the same level as if I were throwing money at all kinds of "premium supps" . I have probably spent over $20-30k on supps in my life. There comes a point where you have to ask yourself.. will a $30 bottle of sleeping pills make or break ANY goal of mine. For me its a reverberating no. Does melatonin work well for me? Yes, and many people I know. Have there been any negatives? No, its been 4 years like clockwork and I sleep fine when I'm without it, still. That's enough for me not to give someone $360 a year.
Why are you so hellbent on proving an opinion wrong? I'm not you. And you aren't a doctor... shockingly.
I have no intrest to sway you, friend. Do what works best for you and I wish you good luck. That's why my very first post ended in "IMO".
10-22-2013, 10:48 AM
10-22-2013, 10:58 AM
Please just accept that it helps me. You're starting to sound like you just disapprove of what works for my own body.
Continue to flame all you want but what are you accomplishing? There are people like me all over the web who preach the same thing. Yes, we may all be dumber than you, doctor, but we all found melatonin works for us to fall sleep faster and stay asleep. And yes... its cheap.
10-22-2013, 11:09 AM
I can wholeheartedly agree that it's cheap as heck but one can not really claim it to be equally or better than a lot of the quality sleep aids currently available. As for you stating "but we all found melatonin works for us to fall sleep faster and stay asleep," NOW who's claiming things for the general population? LoL.
10-22-2013, 11:44 AM
Oh no, you misunderstood. These are actual posts that I have read over the years. Much like Bioman quoted my post today. Not assumptions. Testimonies.
You're right that there plenty of sleep aids out there, some more geared towards making people fall asleep faster. Find whatever works for you, tho. If its cheap and you don't have to pay for a supp company's millions $$$ in marketing... more power to you. They wouldn't be $20-$30 a bottle unless you were paying for corporate marketing and an even bigger profit margin.
I really haven't had a single disagreement to your arguments other than that melatonin works to make many people fall asleep faster and stay asleep.
You are a well versed guy and I agree with all of your research, I really do. I know its mostly used for jet lag and things of a circadian nature but it also can be used for falling asleep. I say this... because I'm proof.
These threads are great for stress relief haha... I feel like a million bucks after a good debate.
10-22-2013, 11:57 AM
Again, from your initial post in which I replied to (and now know that it's just basically going round and round in circles with you at this point since the point I was making completely flew right past you), you claimed that melatonin is JUST AS GOOD as other sleep aid supplements which is simply NOT TRUE and you would have understood this if you had ever bothered to actually compare and contrast.
Nobody was arguing if melatonin was ineffective, the point was that melatonin is not very effective in comparison with what is available. As for your assumption that supplement companies are just out to get you, have you even bothered to look at the ingredients some of these contain? They cost $20-$30 because of the ingredients they contain. Melatonin is a bottom of the barrel cheap ingredient. GABA, mucuna/l-dopa, sensoril, ashwagandha, etc. even as bulk ingredients costs considerably more than bulk melatonin. There's a very large cost difference in the raw ingredients here. You're ignoring this very important fact and just making a nonsensical blanket statement that equates to the following as if there is no raw material cost difference: you pay x-amount of money for sleep aids because supplement companies are just trying to rip you off.
As for supplement company's paying millions of dollars on marketing, do you have any idea how pretty darn small Nimbus is? Nimbus barely markets their current products and the reason something like Abyss Unparalleled is so highly regarded is because people actually used the product and genuinely love the product, not because we are sheep following advertisements.
Like seriously, where's all these misguided notions of yours coming from? I mean, I feel bad for you for you having to spend 20-30 thousand dollars over the years on supplements which you probably just bought willy nilly based probably entirely off of marketing bunk but that's on you as an uneducated consumer more than anything.
10-22-2013, 12:20 PM
Wow, I remove my compliment. I dont give a **** how small a company is. The smaller, the more profit that needs to be made. I have nothing against them and the ingredient profile is stacked for your info. Is it $30 worth of stuff... thats up to who ever wants to buy it. Don't be such a f*cking assh*le. I worked my ass off to gain 50lbs in 3 years and lost 6% bf. Who are you to tell me that I only pay for marketing... you should gain the opposite from that. Not everyone starts out knowing everything there is in this exponentially confusing market place. Not even you, you pompous assquach.
If you are going to attack my consumer integrity, education and transitively, ability to possess results, then you better not actually be 160 pounds unless you are 4-6% and bench 325. I don't need to prove sh*t to you, I can almost curl a little runt like you.
You are literally the only person that seriously got under my skin in my entire time on this board. I know a Napoleon when I see one.
10-22-2013, 12:29 PM
Who was attacking your physique or progress anyway? BWAH HA HA HA HA. You're the one that kept bringing up how supplement companies are out to rip people off and how you've spent 20-30 k on supplements over the years.
I think this is an instance where you've essentially got under your own skin there buddy
10-22-2013, 12:40 PM
10-23-2013, 01:38 PM
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10-23-2013, 01:46 PM
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10-23-2013, 01:51 PM
10-23-2013, 01:59 PM
10-25-2013, 09:37 AM
10-25-2013, 03:05 PM
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