Freezing on Alpha T2

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    Freezing on Alpha T2


    Does anyone else get cold with (the new) Alpha T2? Not that I mind - I know its working in more ways than one...
    It's like a much stronger Vanilean effect....

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    Is there any caffeine or any stimulants in your day? Through supplements or food (like coffee)

    You're definitely a good reactor
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Is there any caffeine or any stimulants in your day? Through supplements or food (like coffee)

    You're definitely a good reactor
    Yes their is - at least a couple of coffees and then more (pre-workout) on workout days. Was prompted tonight to post - took my evening single cap dose and had a strong black coffee not long after. The caffeine seems to really bring Aplaha's effect. Tell me more...
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    This is interesting. I noticed that you mentioned Alpha I love that stuff it works super well. I also enjoy DAA and bcaas. What protein do you use?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleGauge1 View Post
    This is interesting. I noticed that you mentioned Alpha I love that stuff it works super well. I also enjoy DAA and bcaas. What protein do you use?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerwil View Post
    Yes their is - at least a couple of coffees and then more (pre-workout) on workout days. Was prompted tonight to post - took my evening single cap dose and had a strong black coffee not long after. The caffeine seems to really bring Aplaha's effect. Tell me more...
    Caffeine synergizes with the yohimbe extract we use. When you couple this with the pro-thyroidals at full doses, there's a reason we didn't put caffeine in AT2: it would be too strong for most.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Caffeine synergizes with the yohimbe extract we use. When you couple this with the pro-thyroidals at full doses, there's a reason we didn't put caffeine in AT2: it would be too strong for most.
    Nice, I like it. Most noticeable is the additional energy that is unleashed when caffeine is added....
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerwil View Post
    Does anyone else get cold with (the new) Alpha T2? Not that I mind - I know its working in more ways than one...
    It's like a much stronger Vanilean effect....
    I take my alpha t2 w icariin n osthole and caffeine

    Adds fuel to the fire...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9772606/

    http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJF...EJD801.024.htm

    Everyone always asks about a thyroid pct. well here it is

    Alpha t2 is a great product. I've been through 2 bottles so far
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Caffeine synergizes with the yohimbe extract we use. When you couple this with the pro-thyroidals at full doses, there's a reason we didn't put caffeine in AT2: it would be too strong for most.
    It what respects would it be too strong for individuals? The stimulant components, caffeine and yohimbe. aren't particularly strong, so what effect do the pro-thyroidals have when combined that causes this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerwil View Post
    Nice, I like it. Most noticeable is the additional energy that is unleashed when caffeine is added....
    Unleashing is exactly what it does!
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    It what respects would it be too strong for individuals? The stimulant components, caffeine and yohimbe. aren't particularly strong, so what effect do the pro-thyroidals have when combined that causes this?
    Caffeine, yohimbe, and higenamine are all thermogenics. And thyroidals are also thermogenic. In short, you will sweat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleGauge1 View Post
    This is interesting. I noticed that you mentioned Alpha I love that stuff it works super well. I also enjoy DAA and bcaas. What protein do you use?
    It is super duper
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Caffeine synergizes with the yohimbe extract we use. When you couple this with the pro-thyroidals at full doses, there's a reason we didn't put caffeine in AT2: it would be too strong for most.
    Those thyroidals may cause one to become cold because they are anti thyrotrophic.

    And furthermore, a thermogenic causes one to become warm, not cold.

    If you activate the SNS with VR-type compounds then you would stimulate sweating in the absence of thermogenesis.

    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerwil View Post
    Does anyone else get cold with (the new) Alpha T2? Not that I mind - I know its working in more ways than one...
    It's like a much stronger Vanilean effect....
    You think it's working because you get cold?

    Please shoot me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    Those thyroidals may cause one to become cold because they are anti thyrotrophic.

    And furthermore, a thermogenic causes one to become warm, not cold.

    If you activate the SNS with VR-type compounds then you would stimulate sweating in the absence of thermogenesis.

    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read.
    Reduced TSH from oleuropein was secondary to basic feedback inhibition from T3 (increased peripheral T4 to T3 turnover). I think you may be looking at the older Alpha-T2.

    I was referring to the thermogenic response generating heat. In OP's case, my best guess is peripheral vasoconstriction from yohimbinoids creating the sensation of cold without actually dropping core temperature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    Those thyroidals may cause one to become cold because they are anti thyrotrophic.

    And furthermore, a thermogenic causes one to become warm, not cold.

    If you activate the SNS with VR-type compounds then you would stimulate sweating in the absence of thermogenesis.

    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    You think it's working because you get cold?

    Please shoot me.
    No. It's working cause I can see changes Bud. I just noticed that I get cold if caffeine is present in the equation...and my energy level also sky rockets. Nice little discovery. One or 2 T2's and have a cup of black coffee 1/2 hour later and you have big time energy for many hours or have a pre-workout with 400-500mg caffeine (up to hours after you took the T2 dose) and you have crazy energy for the rest of the day - I am talking 8-10 hours. And the energy is in addition to what would normally be experienced from the coffee or pre-workout..
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    It what respects would it be too strong for individuals? The stimulant components, caffeine and yohimbe. aren't particularly strong, so what effect do the pro-thyroidals have when combined that causes this?
    Not sure, but while cutting I eat a few tabs of Dexaprine with E and take many scoops of Alphamine.....I find the T2 / caffeine effect pretty wild - so the average Joe might overwhelmed. I would recommend taking two T2's (after using them for a week) and having a cup of black coffee 1/2 hour later before introducing any more caffeine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerwil View Post
    No. It's working cause I can see changes Bud. I just noticed that I get cold if caffeine is present in the equation...and my energy level also sky rockets. Nice little discovery. One or 2 T2's and have a cup of black coffee 1/2 hour later and you have big time energy for many hours or have a pre-workout with 400-500mg caffeine (up to hours after you took the T2 dose) and you have crazy energy for the rest of the day - I am talking 8-10 hours. And the energy is in addition to what would normally be experienced from the coffee or pre-workout..
    Caffeine, exercise, fasting, etc all potentiate the activity of the yohimbe extract
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Reduced TSH from oleuropein was secondary to basic feedback inhibition from T3 (increased peripheral T4 to T3 turnover). I think you may be looking at the older Alpha-T2.

    I was referring to the thermogenic response generating heat. In OP's case, my best guess is peripheral vasoconstriction from yohimbinoids creating the sensation of cold without actually dropping core temperature.
    Why do you think the compound responsible for increasing T3 in rats is oleuropein? Furthermore, the evidence that olive leaf extract effects thyroid metabolism in humans is lacking (unless you have evidence that I am not pivy to).

    Furthermore, yohimbine doesn't cause peripheral vasoconstriction. It might, if it didn't have access to the CNS, but it does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    Why do you think the compound responsible for increasing T3 in rats is oleuropein? Furthermore, the evidence that olive leaf extract effects thyroid metabolism in humans is lacking (unless you have evidence that I am not pivy to).

    Furthermore, yohimbine doesn't cause peripheral vasoconstriction. It might, if it didn't have access to the CNS, but it does.
    There isn't a human study on oleuropein's effects on T3, and while I can't say for certain that it is the responsible bioactive, the compound/plant does have human studies to various other ends, which at the minimum indicates sufficient bioavailability to elicit physiological effects.

    As for yohimbine, it does seem to increase diastolic blood pressure (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10949101). Due to heavy selectivity for the alpha 2 over the alpha 1 receptor, we are presumably looking at increased vasoconstriction, probably mediated by a variety of factors, both in the vasculature and centrally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    There isn't a human study on oleuropein's effects on T3, and while I can't say for certain that it is the responsible bioactive, the compound/plant does have human studies to various other ends, which at the minimum indicates sufficient bioavailability to elicit physiological effects.

    As for yohimbine, it does seem to increase diastolic blood pressure (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10949101). Due to heavy selectivity for the alpha 2 over the alpha 1 receptor, we are presumably looking at increased vasoconstriction, probably mediated by a variety of factors, both in the vasculature and centrally.
    Even if we surmise that oleuropein is the active constituent, the results achieved in the rat study are absolutely below the threshold for contributing to active fat loss. Thyrotoxicity resulting in substantial weight loss occurs over the course of weeks-to-months in the setting of a T4/T3 10-100x's above baseline.

    I would advise that you look into the older veterinary literature on yohimbine for its peripheral systemic effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    It what respects would it be too strong for individuals? The stimulant components, caffeine and yohimbe. aren't particularly strong, so what effect do the pro-thyroidals have when combined that causes this?
    Oh, so you mean to say that you have not tried Enhanced yet? Or Alphamine? You shall shiver and sweat like no tomorrow. Sadly that intensity does tend to taper off after awhile, now I just sweat a good amount.
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    This is one of my favorite products by far. I love the benefits I get from it. Really great stuff for sure. I also like stacking it with other things as well it works well with DAA. .
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    Even if we surmise that oleuropein is the active constituent, the results achieved in the rat study are absolutely below the threshold for contributing to active fat loss. Thyrotoxicity resulting in substantial weight loss occurs over the course of weeks-to-months in the setting of a T4/T3 10-100x's above baseline.

    I would advise that you look into the older veterinary literature on yohimbine for its peripheral systemic effects.
    Oleuropein/olive leaf extract is but an ingredient in the formula. It wasn't included with the intention of mimicking supraphysiological levels of T4/T3. Rather, it has beneficial effects on metabolism in the murine model (the HED for increased peripheral deiodinase activity, even at ~60%, is very low), blood glucose, and the cardiovascular system.

    I'll look into the old veterinary research for sure, I'm assuming in dogs? Anecdotally, caffeine + yohimbine makes my extremeties cold, which can give the illusion of a lowered overall body temperature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    Those thyroidals may cause one to become cold because they are anti thyrotrophic.

    And furthermore, a thermogenic causes one to become warm, not cold.

    If you activate the SNS with VR-type compounds then you would stimulate sweating in the absence of thermogenesis.

    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read.
    Never heard of cold sweats?

    A quick google search of "yohimbe cold sweats" sure does give a lot of hits...

    Not saying you were wrong, just curious if you believe that if this is physically impossible, why exactly there are sensitive users to yohimbe extracts and yohimbine HCl who get cold sweats, even from pure yohimbine and nothing else
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Oleuropein/olive leaf extract is but an ingredient in the formula. It wasn't included with the intention of mimicking supraphysiological levels of T4/T3. Rather, it has beneficial effects on metabolism in the murine model (the HED for increased peripheral deiodinase activity, even at ~60%, is very low), blood glucose, and the cardiovascular system.

    I'll look into the old veterinary research for sure, I'm assuming in dogs? Anecdotally, caffeine + yohimbine makes my extremeties cold, which can give the illusion of a lowered overall body temperature.
    Olive leaf is becoming very popular for multiple benefits. As we discussed before, one of the more frequently studied extracts the past 2-3 years
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Never heard of cold sweats?

    A quick google search of "yohimbe cold sweats" sure does give a lot of hits...
    It increases central SNS tone which also happens to increase sweating and subsequent evaporative cooling. Ascribing thermogenesis to feeling cold is moronic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Olive leaf is becoming very popular for multiple benefits. As we discussed before, one of the more frequently studied extracts the past 2-3 years
    I could really care less about its "multiple benefits." This thread is about thermogenesis, of which olive leaf does not modulate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    the HED for increased peripheral deiodinase activity, even at ~60%, is very low

    How do you figure?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    How do you figure?
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12164280

    From the full text, 500 ug resulted in a ~300% increase in T3. Fed to rats at 125-150g bodyweight. About 3.33mg/kg.

    Scaling for BSA, you're looking at 37.5-50mg/day for a human male of reasonable bodyweight.
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