taking things natty for a while...

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    taking things natty for a while...


    Well I've been "off'' and" on'' for a few years...I'm 25, 5'10 , 12% bf 215 lbs...I've always done a proper pct..Clomid,or nolvadex.. a couple of weeks ago I got labs done...my total test level was a lousy 170...I've been off for several months...my question is what natty supplement will give you that mental edge and somewhat alpha feeling that aas provides...anyone that has ran aas knows the mental battles while off ha, and that's what I'm going through. ...I don't need diet advice, I've been eating clean and advancing in diet knowledge for years. I'm currently taking bcaa, creatine, glutamine, multi, fish oils, Hawthorne berry,and glutamine ...any thoughts

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    That's a lot of glutamine Are you looking for that mental edge and alpha feeling while training or throughout the day?
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    I hate to say it but at 170 there is not a lot if help your going to get from OTC products. Your best bet would be trt. At 25 that sucks to hear I know.... This is why people are told not to mess with anabolics before 25. It can ruin your natural hormone production. At "several months off" it doesn't look good. Sorry bud but I have to be honest, at least w trt your levels could be in a range where you feel better.
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    I would speak to your Dr about Androgel or something similar. 170 is quite low
    DAA can help with libido and that "Alpha feeling" hard to go OTC after using AAS' for awhile

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    Thanks for the input guys...yes I just want that mental edge through out the day and through workouts...yes I'm going to go back and see him in a month...I'm guessing if my test hasn't improved at all he will suggest or we can agree apon trt or a prescription of androgel...yes I know I should have waited a little longer no arguing with that....
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    Your best bet is going to be TRT.. I'm 27 and have been on TRT for 2 years. I was at a similar level as you, a little bit higher to be exact but they put me on clomid first, then hcg and both did very little in improving the levels consistently. The options he gave me were Androgel and TRT, I obviously wanted TRT but he preferred the gel. Luckily my insurance wasn't to thrilled at the cost of the gel and my age, so they declined the androgel coverage and approved the TRT instead. Since I want to have kids my dr has me doing hcg every 3 weeks at 500ius every 2 days for a week.

    Natural supps you could try would be DAA and Bulbine. I don't believe they will do much for you in terms of giving you that "edge" but like some of post previously they will increase your libido which might make the woman happy. Best of luck to you bud, and I hope you get everything worked out and that "edge" returns!
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post
    Well I've been "off'' and" on'' for a few years...I'm 25, 5'10 , 12% bf 215 lbs...I've always done a proper pct..Clomid,or nolvadex.. a couple of weeks ago I got labs done...my total test level was a lousy 170...I've been off for several months...my question is what natty supplement will give you that mental edge and somewhat alpha feeling that aas provides...anyone that has ran aas knows the mental battles while off ha, and that's what I'm going through. ...I don't need diet advice, I've been eating clean and advancing in diet knowledge for years. I'm currently taking bcaa, creatine, glutamine, multi, fish oils, Hawthorne berry,and glutamine ...any thoughts
    Check out Alphamax, one of the most complete testosterone boosters on the market but more importantly when dosed pre workout testers have commented an increased positive aggression, alphamale attitude and drive. As well it will help to maintain a lean hard physique while increasing strength and libido.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adizzle1
    Check out Alphamax, one of the most complete testosterone boosters on the market but more importantly when dosed pre workout testers have commented an increased positive aggression, alphamale attitude and drive. As well it will help to maintain a lean hard physique while increasing strength and libido.
    Thanks man I will check it out for sure...thanks for the reply awray8 ...i have a feeling trt will be the best option...I was thinking of trying a Clomid restart but of course there's a big chance it may be ineffective...
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    Wait until bloods are done, then post up labs in the anabolic section. Depending on the cause of your low T, a clomid restart may, or may not work.

    This is from ZiR Red:

    If test is low AND LH/FSH is low, then it is likely a hypothalamic/pituitary issue.
    If, however, test is low and LH/FSH are normal or high, then it is more than likely an issue with production occurring at the testies.

    If, for example, both his testosterone and LH levels are low, then its likely that using some form of gonadotropin stimulating hormone (HCG) will increase test production and MAY reverse the issue.
    On the other hand, if his test is low but his LH are normal or high, it means his testies are not responding to the natural production of gonadotropin. Administering more will likely not have much effect, and may even further desensitize the leydig cells to LH, resulting in further suppression.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz
    Wait until bloods are done, then post up labs in the anabolic section. Depending on the cause of your low T, a clomid restart may, or may not work.

    This is from ZiR Red:

    If test is low AND LH/FSH is low, then it is likely a hypothalamic/pituitary issue.
    If, however, test is low and LH/FSH are normal or high, then it is more than likely an issue with production occurring at the testies.

    If, for example, both his testosterone and LH levels are low, then its likely that using some form of gonadotropin stimulating hormone (HCG) will increase test production and MAY reverse the issue.
    On the other hand, if his test is low but his LH are normal or high, it means his testies are not responding to the natural production of gonadotropin. Administering more will likely not have much effect, and may even further desensitize the leydig cells to LH, resulting in further suppression.
    Thanks for the good reply...I'm going back to the doctor in 3 weeks so I'm sure I will figure it out then...well I've thought about trying this" natty" cycle to make help with test elevation and burn a little fat..

    Pes alpha t2
    Pes anabeta elite
    Sns xgels (I've read good reviews, sounds promising, but who knows ha)
    Anyway any thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post
    Thanks for the good reply...I'm going back to the doctor in 3 weeks so I'm sure I will figure it out then...well I've thought about trying this" natty" cycle to make help with test elevation and burn a little fat.. Pes alpha t2 Pes anabeta elite Sns xgels (I've read good reviews, sounds promising, but who knows ha) Anyway any thoughts?
    My thoughts are... I like it (the stack that is).
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post

    Thanks for the good reply...I'm going back to the doctor in 3 weeks so I'm sure I will figure it out then...well I've thought about trying this" natty" cycle to make help with test elevation and burn a little fat..

    Pes alpha t2
    Pes anabeta elite
    Sns xgels (I've read good reviews, sounds promising, but who knows ha)
    Anyway any thoughts?
    When you do visit the docs, rebump the thread with the numbers and we'll see what we can do.

    That will be a great stack, esp. for a recomp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post
    Thanks for the good reply...I'm going back to the doctor in 3 weeks so I'm sure I will figure it out then...well I've thought about trying this" natty" cycle to make help with test elevation and burn a little fat..

    Pes alpha t2
    Pes anabeta elite
    Sns xgels (I've read good reviews, sounds promising, but who knows ha)
    Anyway any thoughts?
    first order of biz is to drop the OTC supps see the doc as soon as possible get your levels corrected and then consider supps. You're not going to get the results you want with supps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    The only test booster that improved my mood was sustain alpha.
    True that bro I still have 2 bottles of topical
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    These TRT suggestions are scary. At 25 that should be bottom of the barrel; last option.

    Besides there's just about no such thing as TRT it almost always becomes HRT and that is a life long journey/challenge.

    How ling is "months off?" I know personally it can take 6 months+ to start to feel anything different. I'd try a restard and just time off. Maybe 25mg Clomid EOD, and an AI. Possibly get on a full spectron toco product, or eat mixed nuts daily. Will help with testicular sensitivity. Daily viagra can help raise test and works synergistically with Clomid. Can help if there is current issues in that department too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jelisej View Post
    here we go:
    Sildenafil increases serum testosterone levels by a direct action on the testes - Spitzer - 2013 - Andrology - Wiley Online Library

    As you can see it works differently from clomid and it actually even reduces LH as it gets used a lot effectively, and because clomid raises LH to the top nubers one could potentially get serious numbers and in record time
    plus it seems that this may have revival effect on Leydig cells
    ultimately, go see a endocrinologist asap. One that specialises/is experiences/knowledged in anabolics and hormone levels etc. 25 is too young to consider HRT.

    Oh, and your cycling days should be over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard

    first order of biz is to drop the OTC supps see the doc as soon as possible get your levels corrected and then consider supps. You're not going to get the results you want with supps.
    ....I've already stated that I just saw the doc and am going back in 3 weeks....I'm going to suggest the Clomid restart to see what he thinks
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    triazole makes me feel alpha as fuk. tropinol XP makes me feel uplifted and secksy. combine the two for the win?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx
    triazole makes me feel alpha as fuk. tropinol XP makes me feel uplifted and secksy. combine the two for the win?
    Hmm I'll check into them...I failed to mention that in march my total test was 580..in may I started a 6 week 10 mg sd run, which I love....so it's been several months after pct, and my test is 170..so maybe my body hasn't bounced back yet or serm was bunk...before this cycle I've ran several cycles and my test has always stabilized normally...
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post

    Hmm I'll check into them...I failed to mention that in march my total test was 580..in may I started a 6 week 10 mg sd run, which I love....so it's been several months after pct, and my test is 170..so maybe my body hasn't bounced back yet or serm was bunk...before this cycle I've ran several cycles and my test has always stabilized normally...
    What other supps did you use for pct besides the serm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985

    What other supps did you use for pct besides the serm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post
    Well I've been "off'' and" on'' for a few years...I'm 25, 5'10 , 12% bf 215 lbs...I've always done a proper pct..Clomid,or nolvadex.. a couple of weeks ago I got labs done...my total test level was a lousy 170...I've been off for several months...my question is what natty supplement will give you that mental edge and somewhat alpha feeling that aas provides...anyone that has ran aas knows the mental battles while off ha, and that's what I'm going through. ...I don't need diet advice, I've been eating clean and advancing in diet knowledge for years. I'm currently taking bcaa, creatine, glutamine, multi, fish oils, Hawthorne berry,and glutamine ...any thoughts
    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post
    Thanks for the good reply...I'm going back to the doctor in 3 weeks so I'm sure I will figure it out then...well I've thought about trying this" natty" cycle to make help with test elevation and burn a little fat..

    Pes alpha t2
    Pes anabeta elite
    Sns xgels (I've read good reviews, sounds promising, but who knows ha)
    Anyway any thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post
    ....I've already stated that I just saw the doc and am going back in 3 weeks....I'm going to suggest the Clomid restart to see what he thinks
    weird... in the OP you're asking for supps and then the next post I quoted you are talking about running a natty cycle. This isn't a supplement situation. I realize that you're going in 3 weeks nowhere did I say you weren't going back in. I gave the recommendation to not take any supps. You want to go in with completely base line everything, meaning no natty supps but do as you wish. It would seem that your past experiences are what got you into this mess. Why stop now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard

    weird... in the OP you're asking for supps and then the next post I quoted you are talking about running a natty cycle. This isn't a supplement situation. I realize that you're going in 3 weeks nowhere did I say you weren't going back in. I gave the recommendation to not take any supps. You want to go in with completely base line everything, meaning no natty supps but do as you wish. It would seem that your past experiences are what got you into this mess. Why stop now?
    What is so hard to understand dude...I've taken cycles in the past and my test has jumped back to normal...several months ago I did another sd cycle, I got labs done a couple weeks ago and it was 170.. I've been off the sd cycle for several months...so I was wondering what natty supps will help give me that alpha feeling and help with test elevation...since my test is so low...I'm going back to doc to get labs done in a few weeks..if test hasn't gone up then maybe a Clomid restart or trt will be optional... Idk what you are implying man you must not comprehend what I'm trying to explain...my test has never stayed low after a cycle until recent, I've done proper cycle and post cycle support ans proper pct, so don't imply that I do not know what I'm doing...thanks
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    I gotta go with the spaniard on this one. Stop supplementing, return to your doc with a clean slate to establish a baseline for all of your levels and go from there. The truth is (no matter how much you believe that you know what you're doing) you dug this hole and you're gonna need some help to get out. You've already sought help from a doctor. Give him a fair shake on diagnosis and treatment, but first give him the chance to see you at baseline levels. If you don't like what he has to offer, then go your own route and eat all the DAA and trib you want.
    6 weeks of SD? Hope your liver is in better shape than your balls.
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    Going to agree as well. OP I understand your question BUT there is no point to ingest a bunch of supps to make you feel better only to give your doc a bogus idea of baseline levels.

    You say cycles (plural) so with that if guess either your SERM was shyt or your body is having a harder time recovering (which happens after multiple cycles).

    Being only 25 I would want to get to the underlying cause of this. There was NO natty supp that did shyt for me when my levels were at your level. Hcg and TRT was in order and that was after seeing a few docs and multiple blood panels. No more supps bud IMO. Good luck and keep us posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    weird... in the OP you're asking for supps and then the next post I quoted you are talking about running a natty cycle. This isn't a supplement situation. I realize that you're going in 3 weeks nowhere did I say you weren't going back in. I gave the recommendation to not take any supps. You want to go in with completely base line everything, meaning no natty supps but do as you wish. It would seem that your past experiences are what got you into this mess. Why stop now?


    Blay I don't think Spaniard is trying to be offensive. He's just saying trying to self medicate at this point is not the answer. We hear you your going back to the doc in 3 weeks. Great!! You want your levels to be what they are when you go in so the doc can do his job. That means no manipulation of your natural hormone production at this time. Both of these guys are right, you want to come off all supps that could manipulate your hormones especially test boosters before getting bloods
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop
    I gotta go with the spaniard on this one. Stop supplementing, return to your doc with a clean slate to establish a baseline for all of your levels and go from there. The truth is (no matter how much you believe that you know what you're doing) you dug this hole and you're gonna need some help to get out. You've already sought help from a doctor. Give him a fair shake on diagnosis and treatment, but first give him the chance to see you at baseline levels. If you don't like what he has to offer, then go your own route and eat all the DAA and trib you want.
    6 weeks of SD? Hope your liver is in better shape than your balls.
    10 mg for 6 weeks...my balls and liver are fine
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post
    What is so hard to understand dude...I've taken cycles in the past and my test has jumped back to normal...several months ago I did another sd cycle, I got labs done a couple weeks ago and it was 170.. I've been off the sd cycle for several months...so I was wondering what natty supps will help give me that alpha feeling and help with test elevation...since my test is so low...I'm going back to doc to get labs done in a few weeks..if test hasn't gone up then maybe a Clomid restart or trt will be optional... Idk what you are implying man you must not comprehend what I'm trying to explain...my test has never stayed low after a cycle until recent, I've done proper cycle and post cycle support ans proper pct, so don't imply that I do not know what I'm doing...thanks
    You asked for advice, you got it. Don't blame the person behind the advice if you don't like it. No one is being rude here, we just question your logic that's all. If you want to get bloods done, then stop supplementing and come in as clean as possible. Deal with having crap quality of life for a couple weeks so you can do things right. If you're bound and determined to do things your way then just do it.
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    My actual question was what natty stack to take. Not what not to do until I go back and see the doctor...I understand what some of you guys are saying..i started this thread on a positive note for advice not for arguments or questioning my logic...I'm not trying to be a dick or disrespectful I just didn't ask what I shouldn't be taking before labs. Anyway any sooner fans on here? Hopefully the belldozer will have a big game sat
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaykeryan View Post
    My actual question was what natty stack to take. Not what not to do until I go back and see the doctor...I understand what some of you guys are saying..i started this thread on a positive note for advice not for arguments or questioning my logic...I'm not trying to be a dick or disrespectful I just didn't ask what I shouldn't be taking before labs. Anyway any sooner fans on here? Hopefully the belldozer will have a big game sat
    Oh, in that case, the answer is "none".
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