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Nootropic Noob. Help me out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    Do you feel anything on it's own?!
    Yes. It's very nice. Imagine a cleaner and more powerful "kick" than caffeine, like a very mild adderal feel. Although, you should only take once a day (so you can just enjoy a nice cup of coffee later on if it wares off, and 'Sulb' usually wears off within 4-6 hours, at least for me. I wouldn't recommend drinking a coffee for at least 4 hours after you take it, just because it's too much stims for your brain. It's one of my favorite nootropics. It tastes like crap if you buy the bulk powder, id always have to put it into capsules. The first time i took it, i had that tunnel vision effect, like in limitless, lol. It was pretty intense, in a good way though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    What an absolutely ridiculous stack to recommend to a newbie.
    Haha completely agree with you on this one. I think he might be joking though?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz15 View Post
    Yes. It's very nice. Imagine a cleaner and more powerful "kick" than caffeine, like a very mild adderal feel. Although, you should only take once a day (so you can just enjoy a nice cup of coffee later on if it wares off, and 'Sulb' usually wears off within 4-6 hours, at least for me. I wouldn't recommend drinking a coffee for at least 4 hours after you take it, just because it's too much stims for your brain. It's one of my favorite nootropics. It tastes like crap if you buy the bulk powder, id always have to put it into capsules. The first time i took it, i had that tunnel vision effect, like in limitless, lol. It was pretty intense, in a good way though.
    That's pretty cool for you, what dose do you do?
    I for one don't feel anything with Sulbutamine on it's own, with Caffein I get a nice "focus" though! Yes, you're right, the taste is horrible and hard to flush out!
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    I've been dosing:
    - oxi- for the past 4 months @ 5-10g/day
    - pi- for the past 2 months @ 10g/day
    - ani- for the past 1 month @ 5g/day

    I supplement dosage with:
    - 8-10g of omega 3,6,9 (I can get exact ratios when I get home)
    - 300mg ALCAR 2x/day
    - 150mg choline bitartrate 3x/day (will be upgrading to Alpha GPC in the coming weeks) (also get choline from eggs in AM)
    - multi-v
    - caffeine (3shots espresso in AM, 2 in PM, pre-workout in PM)
    - occasionally take focus XT with pre-workout

    Thoughts thus far:
    I dosing with the oxi- solo for the first two months and saw a noticeable difference in my productivity at work. To give you some perspective, I work as a consultant and am typically presented with complex IT and business problems which require logical thinking to solve. IMHO oxi- excels here: I am finding anything computer-based/logical is simpler than before. I also felt very process-based and task-focused. I've started taking this mid-day at which point I typically ramp up the quantity/volume of work I do. Coupled with caffeine and non-vocal trance/electronic music that has a great speed/beat to it, I frequently get lost in my work.

    I started adding the pi- 2 months ago and got WICKED headaches for the first couple weeks. This was presumably due to not adequately supplementing w/ choline (learned that lesson the hard way). I also noticed a drowsy head-fog feeling with my first couple dosages that pretty much knocked me out for a couple hrs. (I loaded w/ an attack dose of 15g for the first 3days - I did it over the weekend so as to not impact work). Since then, I haven't noticed any head-fog feeling. I noticed that it definitely adds a sense of clarity and focus which I enjoy during my drive into the office as well as when reading my news feed. I have noticed an increase in ability to ingest, digest, and retain information. Additionally, when I read about any type of mathematical or science related topic, I have a far greater ease in comprehension - likely due to the logical processing.

    I started the ani- about a month ago. I'm not too sure I enjoy it at this point as I seem to experience a feeling of dulled emotions. Don't get me wrong, it helps me to not get distracted by things, but I enjoy experiencing my emotions. I'm currently considering dropping it entirely.

    I'd recommend oxi- to those in any industry field requiring logical thought processing. I'd likely recommend ani- to anyone experiencing anxiety. (For anxiety, I'd also look at 5-HTP, however it isn't recommended to take in large quantities due to its interaction w/ MAOI inhibtors and interactions w/ seratonin receptors. I dosed 150mg 2x/day over 2 days and the best way to describe the feeling was "zen".) Pi- seems great in general, but it is one of the weaker -racetams.

    Some interesting things I've noticed are increased photo-sensitivity (which I strongly dislike) and increased sound perception. I also tend to get a bit of a "speedy" feeling when taking oxi- & caffeine mid-day resulting in increased hand movement (typing fast, clicking pens, dancing fingers on desk) and eye movement (rapid blinking, speed reading) - senses in general are heightened and constantly receiving and interpreting input.

    Some negatives I've noticed are irritability w/ ignorant people or people who don't follow logical processes. I have also been noticing that I am more dismissive of the same. It is easy to deal with, but was a bit interesting to notice when it first started happening.

    NOTES:
    ani- is fat soluble so I typically drop it with liquid fish oil in AM following breakfast (I also put 2 tbsps of olive oil on my eggs every morning)
    oxi- has a very pleasant "artificial sweetener-like" sweetness
    pi- is bitter sweet


    I'd be happy to discuss further...
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    Quote Originally Posted by manstr View Post
    Haha completely agree with you on this one. I think he might be joking though?
    serious stacks that ive seen-

    these were more of a suggestion of products-not necessarily to be taken together in those exact stacks
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    When people talk about "nootropics", I wonder if they are searching for "energy" or just a "clear head"?

    I've taken several "nootropics", many that people swear by and felt essentially nothing (mainly the "Racetams").

    So...the only "nootropic" I've personally taken and can say I noticed enough of a difference that cannot be dismissed as "placebo" is Nuvigil (a brand of modafinil).

    As for the energy type, I have taken what athletes refer to as "greenies" which is clobenzorex (there are various brands). It's banned in the USA because it is an immediate "prodrug" of d-amphetamine, but pretty widely available.

    The d-amphetamine is much more noticeable, has a bit of euphoria with it, and an intense feeling of energy, but a bit of a "tweaked out" feeling I don't love. There is no mistaking it as a "placebo", it gets you moving and focused (and a bit euphoric).

    When I got a prescription of Nuvigil (brand of modafinil), I took 400 mg (2, 200 mg pills) with a cup of coffee. I waited for that euphoric blitz of energy to hit me (as did with clobenzorex), however it never did. What did happen however is I became wide awake (I'm generally a groggy person), and was able to get a lot done, articulate ideas, put thoughts and ideas together, etc. I started to enjoy the lack of "tweaked" out feeling, however missed the euphoria (so a give and take). IF I had any doubt about the effectiveness of Nuvigil, those were completely eliminated when I ran out. I drank a cup of coffee and stared at my computer for an hour before realizing I hadn't turned it on yet (truly).

    By the way: Adderall, Ritalin, and the like would fall into the amphetamine group, not unlike clobenzorex. I prefer clobenzorex because the others are blends of amphetamines that while super effective, give even more of a "tweaked out" feeling (especially after a few days in a row).

    Other than these (I know individual biology is different from person to person), I cannot say any other "nootropic" I've tried is worth a mention. There are tons of fans of the "Racetams", so don't take my word for it...however that's my honest .02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    That's pretty cool for you, what dose do you do?
    I for one don't feel anything with Sulbutamine on it's own, with Caffein I get a nice "focus" though! Yes, you're right, the taste is horrible and hard to flush out!
    I haven't taken it since i ran out, awhile ago. I was just too lazy to order more haha. But hmm.. i put them in capsules, and i was taking somewhere around 600-800mg. Do not exceed 1000mg though. I tried it at just 200mg and it didn't do much, so i started dosing it between 600-800mg to feel the effects. You just have to experiment until you find the right dosage. It was easier for me to take more since i put them in capsules, i couldnt even take 200mg powder or id start gagging. The reason i felt the effects is because i dosed it pretty high only once a day, and it actually kept me going throughout the whole day. It would ware off in the evening, but that was perfect for me so i could get my stuff done. Try dosing it higher without caffeine, and see what you think. If you still dont feel a nice energy boost, then just continue with the caffeine. Nootropics are different for everyone, you have to experiment with them to find what dosage works for you. That's why it wont work on some people, you have to figure out what works for you. When i first tried nootropics, i bought piracetam. It never worked until finally i talked to some people who knew a lot about them and told me to experiment until i find the right dosage for me. I was only taking about 1600mg of piracetam at first, finally when i tried to up the dosage, i went to 3.2g and that's when i started to notice the effects. Some people have to take over 4g of piracetam to feel the great effects. Don't give up on nootropics, they are incredible when you figure out what works for you. It's just like medicine... Adderall for example ( im prescribed to it) at first i was taking 30mg once a day and it made me tweak and all weird. I asked to change the dosage to 10mg, and it was perfect for me. I also was on vyvanse at one point, i was taking 20mg once a day but it wore off in a week and did absolutely nothing.. so i got my dosage upped to 40mg once a day and it was perfect. Everybody is different. Certain face wash works for only some people ( i've been using this same face wash that got ratings of like 4/10, but for me it works fantastic and i haven't had a pimple since 6th grade) . Everybody is different, so you have to figure out on your own what works for you. The face wash comment didn't mean to sound like you shouldn't take it, because 'Sulb' is a fantastic nootropic. It just meant how people are different and if someone said they dose it at 200mg, doesn't mean it's going to be the same for you. I hope this helps a bit. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. I've been researching and studying this stuff for years, i know a lot about this and how the brain and body works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    Do you feel anything on it's own?!
    Yeah for sure. I usually take my CILTEP stack in the morning and caffein when I am at school then sulbutamine when I get home from school for that last little kick to get through the day/night.

    I take between 400-500mg at a time (I weight 210)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz15 View Post
    I haven't taken it since i ran out, awhile ago. I was just too lazy to order more haha. But hmm.. i put them in capsules, and i was taking somewhere around 600-800mg. Do not exceed 1000mg though. I tried it at just 200mg and it didn't do much, so i started dosing it between 600-800mg to feel the effects. You just have to experiment until you find the right dosage. It was easier for me to take more since i put them in capsules, i couldnt even take 200mg powder or id start gagging. The reason i felt the effects is because i dosed it pretty high only once a day, and it actually kept me going throughout the whole day. It would ware off in the evening, but that was perfect for me so i could get my stuff done. Try dosing it higher without caffeine, and see what you think. If you still dont feel a nice energy boost, then just continue with the caffeine. Nootropics are different for everyone, you have to experiment with them to find what dosage works for you. That's why it wont work on some people, you have to figure out what works for you. When i first tried nootropics, i bought piracetam. It never worked until finally i talked to some people who knew a lot about them and told me to experiment until i find the right dosage for me. I was only taking about 1600mg of piracetam at first, finally when i tried to up the dosage, i went to 3.2g and that's when i started to notice the effects. Some people have to take over 4g of piracetam to feel the great effects. Don't give up on nootropics, they are incredible when you figure out what works for you. It's just like medicine... Adderall for example ( im prescribed to it) at first i was taking 30mg once a day and it made me tweak and all weird. I asked to change the dosage to 10mg, and it was perfect for me. I also was on vyvanse at one point, i was taking 20mg once a day but it wore off in a week and did absolutely nothing.. so i got my dosage upped to 40mg once a day and it was perfect. Everybody is different. Certain face wash works for only some people ( i've been using this same face wash that got ratings of like 4/10, but for me it works fantastic and i haven't had a pimple since 6th grade) . Everybody is different, so you have to figure out on your own what works for you. The face wash comment didn't mean to sound like you shouldn't take it, because 'Sulb' is a fantastic nootropic. It just meant how people are different and if someone said they dose it at 200mg, doesn't mean it's going to be the same for you. I hope this helps a bit. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. I've been researching and studying this stuff for years, i know a lot about this and how the brain and body works.
    Cool, I'll try and dose Sulbutamine a little higher and see if that works better, thanks! Btw Adderall at 20mg makes me feel like Superman
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    Yeah for sure. I usually take my CILTEP stack in the morning and caffein when I am at school then sulbutamine when I get home from school for that last little kick to get through the day/night.

    I take between 400-500mg at a time (I weight 210)
    I'll try a little higher dose then, Thanks!
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    the first time I tried sulb was 1g. Don't exactly remember how I felt but wasn't overly stimulated or anything. I don'tthink it was any better than 400-500mg.
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    I may need to try Sulbutamine sounds like a good one.

    one of these days I am going to give modafinil a try as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    I may need to try Sulbutamine sounds like a good one.

    one of these days I am going to give modafinil a try as well.
    May try as well. I've heard some good, some "does nothing", but the good I've heard sounds pretty perfect: focused energy without any tweaked out feeling.

    I'm curious if anyone has taken Sulbutamine (on it's own / with coffee) and at some other time, Modafinil (on it's own / with coffee)?

    I've only taken Modafinil, never Sulbutamine. At first I thought Modafinil was overrated, didn't feel the typical Adderall / Amphetamine rush of energy or euphoria. However, I can say without a doubt it clears the fog, makes you feel wide-awake but not wired. I really noticed when I ran out how much of an effect it was having. It's just very expensive. If Sulbutamine is anywhere close, I'd try it fo sho!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raize View Post
    May try as well. I've heard some good, some "does nothing", but the good I've heard sounds pretty perfect: focused energy without any tweaked out feeling.

    I'm curious if anyone has taken Sulbutamine (on it's own / with coffee) and at some other time, Modafinil (on it's own / with coffee)?

    I've only taken Modafinil, never Sulbutamine. At first I thought Modafinil was overrated, didn't feel the typical Adderall / Amphetamine rush of energy or euphoria. However, I can say without a doubt it clears the fog, makes you feel wide-awake but not wired. I really noticed when I ran out how much of an effect it was having. It's just very expensive. If Sulbutamine is anywhere close, I'd try it fo sho!
    I've done it all. Actually jsut got my mod 2 weeks ago.

    No extra jitters for me when combining Sulb with caffein

    I wouldn't mix mod with stims. First time I took it i was retarded and took 200mg, then later in the day took a pre workout (375mg caffein/60 DMAA). I am very stim tollerant and holy ****, this was intense. Coulnd't sleep. It was horrible. I have been experimenting though. TOok 100mg mod and 200mg caffein today and am fine.

    But I really haven't noticed much from modafinil yet. PRetty dissappointed.

    Also, mod isn't expensive at all. What did you pay? It can easily be had for 1.50/1 per 200mg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Focus xt and Huperzine A will help with ADD/studying while Picamilon is great for general anxiety. For days with extreme anxiety then Phenibut XT is great.
    As far as a "party type" noop I cant help you there
    We have some sample packs of Phenibut XT if you would like to try it
    Recently got off Valium after 8 months on it. Ready for something for occasional anxiety that's non-narcotic. If you still have samples, I would love to try also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    I've done it all. Actually jsut got my mod 2 weeks ago.

    No extra jitters for me when combining Sulb with caffein

    I wouldn't mix mod with stims. First time I took it i was retarded and took 200mg, then later in the day took a pre workout (375mg caffein/60 DMAA). I am very stim tollerant and holy ****, this was intense. Coulnd't sleep. It was horrible. I have been experimenting though. TOok 100mg mod and 200mg caffein today and am fine.

    But I really haven't noticed much from modafinil yet. PRetty dissappointed.

    Also, mod isn't expensive at all. What did you pay? It can easily be had for 1.50/1 per 200mg.
    Thanks for reply! I think my initial mistakes were:
    A) Watching Limitless (a movie I was told is based on modafinil)
    B) comparing amphetamines to nootropics.

    I have self-prescribed clobenzorex (non FDA Approved, but widely available d-amphetamine). When I mentioned that to my doc (showed him the box), he prescribed Adderall XR 30 mg. To be honest, I couldn't tell a difference between the two, that is other than after a few days of Adderall I started to feel a bit crazy. I never felt that with clobenzorex. Makes me wonder why FDA would approve one and not the other (both amphetamine based stimulants)...hmmm.

    Anyway, as my tolerance rose, my doc didn't like the idea of me taking Adderall (or clobenzorex) for energy at 40 years old! So he moved me over to Provigil / Nuvigil (brand name for modafinil). I picked up a 30-day script (60, 200mg pills). Script said take 1 - 2 as needed. I took one the first day, but within the hour, I popped a second when I didn't feel anything from the first. I stuck with 2, 200 mg. (400 mg) each morning with a cup of coffee for the full 30-days.

    I too was a bit disappointed. It didn't help that my insurance didn't cover it (unsure why, maybe wasn't on approved drug list, maybe I have ****ty insurance) so the 30-day supply cost me $225 (ish).

    My routine became: I'd wake up, swallow 400 mg. of modafinil, drink a cup of coffee, and after a shower, I was super clear headed, wide awake, very aware, non-forgetful. I was productive (usually a procrastinator). At times, I missed some of the speedy euphoria of the amphetamines, but my doc made it clear NEVER to mix the two (your comments make me glad I followed his advise). The odd thing is during the 30-days, I remained mostly disappointed, meanwhile I was getting **** done! There was nothing intense, no tweaked out feeling, no euphoria, nothing I can articulate very well. I was myself, calm, just without the fogginess that makes me cranky, the constant forgetfulness that frustrates me, or the procrastinator that frustrates everyone (family and friends).

    So after 30-days were up, I didn't go back to doc, never got a refill. Seemed overpriced and I honestly wasn't too impressed.

    However, in retrospect: it's one of those "don't know what you've got until it's gone" things. I realize how productive and clear headed I was. How I knocked out stuff I'd let burden me prior to. Going back to my doc has been seriously on my mind, hence my interest in this thread: I definitely miss it.

    Side note: I notice it's now called "armodafinil" (not sure what the "ar" in front of modafinil means / does differently)..?

    Thanks again for reply, good luck with it...my hunch is you'll end up liking it (although I know everyone is different)!
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    I have used armodafinil too. Supposed to be a weaker version. I hated it. Raised my heart rate a ton and make me anxious and paranoid as ****. It was horrible. Probably won't try it again and I have like 40 of them left lol. Actually now that i think about it, I mixed that with my pre workout too. Bad idea.

    I have actually taken modafinil and addy together. I was fine. Staggered of course.
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    Jesus!! I haven't been on here since I posted this question. I'm actually overwhelmed at all the feedback! Right now I'm using St Johns Wort and Picamilon 250mg 2x day as well as Dopamite (dopamine enhancer). I'm trying to ween myself from caffeine with the help of tyrosine, DL Phenylalanine, and Ginseng. When I finally finish all that, I will most likely start getting into nootropics more. Also just went back to work, so I need to get some $$$ together to. But yeah, I'd love to build a nice feel good stack. I love my uppers, so anything stimulating without caffeine would def be good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post

    Recently got off Valium after 8 months on it. Ready for something for occasional anxiety that's non-narcotic. If you still have samples, I would love to try also.
    PM me your shipping info and i'll ask mw1 today about pheni samples
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumblecakes View Post
    I've been dosing:
    - oxi- for the past 4 months @ 5-10g/day
    - pi- for the past 2 months @ 10g/day
    - ani- for the past 1 month @ 5g/day


    I started the ani- about a month ago. I'm not too sure I enjoy it at this point as I seem to experience a feeling of dulled emotions. Don't get me wrong, it helps me to not get distracted by things, but I enjoy experiencing my emotions. I'm currently considering dropping it entirely.



    NOTES:
    ani- is fat soluble so I typically drop it with liquid fish oil in AM following breakfast (I also put 2 tbsps of olive oil on my eggs every morning)
    oxi- has a very pleasant "artificial sweetener-like" sweetness
    pi- is bitter sweet


    I'd be happy to discuss further...
    Well, first off, I am surprised that you are not sitting in a fogged out stupor with the amount of ani you are taking. That is almost 3x the recommended dose and if you know racetams at all, the bell curve is not forgiving. You need to stick to 750mg 2x a day with fat and a good choline source like AGPC. I can personally attest to going over by as little as 750mg on ani and feeling dull and emotionless. At recommended doses, it is a strong anxiolytic and great for social and speaking situations.

    Second, I will recommend to anyone in this thread looking for an uplifting and hyper aware racetam, to check out phenylpiracetam. As little as 100mg will take you on a 6-7 hour journey of acute awareness and incredibly heightened sense of well being and clarity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post

    Well, first off, I am surprised that you are not sitting in a fogged out stupor with the amount of ani you are taking. That is almost 3x the recommended dose and if you know racetams at all, the bell curve is not forgiving. You need to stick to 750mg 2x a day with fat and a good choline source like AGPC. I can personally attest to going over by as little as 750mg on ani and feeling dull and emotionless. At recommended doses, it is a strong anxiolytic and great for social and speaking situations.

    Second, I will recommend to anyone in this thread looking for an uplifting and hyper aware racetam, to check out phenylpiracetam. As little as 100mg will take you on a 6-7 hour journey of acute awareness and incredibly heightened sense of well being and clarity.
    I second this. I cannot see why anyone would subject themselves to the outrageous amounts that I see some people taking. There is a point where it all becomes counter productive and useless.

    Yeah we are all different but there comes a point where this reasoning becomes more of an excuse to indulge.
    ---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Well, first off, I am surprised that you are not sitting in a fogged out stupor with the amount of ani you are taking. That is almost 3x the recommended dose and if you know racetams at all, the bell curve is not forgiving. You need to stick to 750mg 2x a day with fat and a good choline source like AGPC. I can personally attest to going over by as little as 750mg on ani and feeling dull and emotionless. At recommended doses, it is a strong anxiolytic and great for social and speaking situations..
    I am aware that it is almost 3x the recommended dose and that racetams function on a bell curve. I started at 750mg 2x/day for several weeks before eventually setting on the 5g/day. I'll admit that the few times I *did* go over 5g I had a "durr" moment - I felt I couldn't get enough stimulation to keep my brain engaged. Outside of that, the only time I experienced any brain fog was with my initial dosages of piracetam and the only times I'm not focused are when there is far too much stimuli around me (e.g. working in a team conference room w/ multiple discussions in the background) or when I allow my attention to wander more than I typically allow it.
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