Nootropic Noob. Help me out!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    Oh and I dose a bit higher to get a benzo like feeling. Take your time start low take it once a week with choline and find your dose.
    Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk HD
    Appreciate the advice. I will give it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Kratom can be quite dangerous. I doubt it will be on the market for too long
    Dangerous? How?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Miss Q View Post
    Dangerous? How?
    Kratom can actually darken the skin on your cheeks with continued use but I'm not sure how common this side effect is. Any one have any recommendations for something to stay focused and alert? I mentioned a stack in a previous post on the thread was hoping someone could give some input...
    Follow me on my log to life and lift: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229476-mtinsideouts-log-life.html
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Miss Q View Post
    Appreciate the advice. I will give it a try.



    Dangerous? How?
    just a quick C&P:
    Case 1. A 55 year old man (Thai) had with 20 years started to use kratom. In the last few weeks he complained about cramps and mental confusion. He was thin, had dark discoloration on both cheeks and also showed consciousness disturbances, delusions, and hallucinations.

    Case 2. A 32 year old Thai, who was employed as a worker, started with 22 years to consume kratom daily. In the last two years he has used in addition alcohol. He suffered from paranoia and states of confusion. After two weeks of treatment, the result was satisfactory.

    Case 3. A 31 year old married Thai, who was employed as a worker, consumed kratom since 14 years of age. He complained about nausea and headaches. He suffered among others from hallucinations, paranoia, and states of confusion.

    Case 4 and 5. These two patients developed likewise psychoses. They suffered from several dependencies: kratom, alcohol, amphetamines, and heroin. Within ten years after withdrawal, they had no relapse.

    The Malaysian “Ministry of Health” had 1994 a second study over 54 consumers prepared, who had used kratom for 1 to 20 years. Almost all investigated individuals (94.3 %) related to have taken opioids and marijuana before they switched to kratom. The patients indicated to have suffered from withdrawal symptoms when trying to break the kratom consumption. But they also indicated that the withdrawal symptoms were milder and shorter than with opioids. There were also health tests and biochemical tests done, which confirmed that the consumers were in good health and showed no deviations to relevant values.

    The scientists now have a multitude of reports on hand through the increasing spreading of kratom outside of Asia. This way it is possible to collect information which was not influenced by faith and tradition. This new source of information makes it possible to understand and research the manifold effects of kratom as well as to clarify and correct some mistakes and contradictory reports from scientific articles. Many testimonies of Western consumers though confirm the previous research data and reports.

    GUIDELINES FOR CONSUMPTION

    To avoid a possible dependency and habit formation, kratom should not be used more than about once per week.

    Kratom should also not be combined with other stimulants (cocaine, yohimbine, amphetamine – also called speed -, as well as caffeine) and drugs which suppress the nervous system (opiates, alcohol, or benzodiazepine), because of the danger of overstimulation or too strong a sedation that can cause breathing difficulties or standstill.

    Kratom should in addition not be combined with MAO inhibitors – MAOIs – (Peganum harmala, passionflowers, or antidepressants), since the combination of MAOIs with monoamines can evoke fatale reactions, although this has not been scientifically researched yet for kratom. MAO inhibitors have the effect of balancing certain brain transmitter substances. In this process they inhibit the so-called monoamine oxidase (MAO) and thus influence the reduction of certain brain transmitters. If one consumes body-foreign monoamines, they will not be broken down normally which can lead to a dangerous increase in blood pressure.

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    mike at competitiveedgelabs dot com


  4. Quote Originally Posted by Miss Q View Post
    Appreciate the advice. I will give it a try.



    Dangerous? How?
    just a quick C&P:
    Case 1. A 55 year old man (Thai) had with 20 years started to use kratom. In the last few weeks he complained about cramps and mental confusion. He was thin, had dark discoloration on both cheeks and also showed consciousness disturbances, delusions, and hallucinations.

    Case 2. A 32 year old Thai, who was employed as a worker, started with 22 years to consume kratom daily. In the last two years he has used in addition alcohol. He suffered from paranoia and states of confusion. After two weeks of treatment, the result was satisfactory.

    Case 3. A 31 year old married Thai, who was employed as a worker, consumed kratom since 14 years of age. He complained about nausea and headaches. He suffered among others from hallucinations, paranoia, and states of confusion.

    Case 4 and 5. These two patients developed likewise psychoses. They suffered from several dependencies: kratom, alcohol, amphetamines, and heroin. Within ten years after withdrawal, they had no relapse.

    The Malaysian “Ministry of Health” had 1994 a second study over 54 consumers prepared, who had used kratom for 1 to 20 years. Almost all investigated individuals (94.3 %) related to have taken opioids and marijuana before they switched to kratom. The patients indicated to have suffered from withdrawal symptoms when trying to break the kratom consumption. But they also indicated that the withdrawal symptoms were milder and shorter than with opioids. There were also health tests and biochemical tests done, which confirmed that the consumers were in good health and showed no deviations to relevant values.

    The scientists now have a multitude of reports on hand through the increasing spreading of kratom outside of Asia. This way it is possible to collect information which was not influenced by faith and tradition. This new source of information makes it possible to understand and research the manifold effects of kratom as well as to clarify and correct some mistakes and contradictory reports from scientific articles. Many testimonies of Western consumers though confirm the previous research data and reports.

    GUIDELINES FOR CONSUMPTION

    To avoid a possible dependency and habit formation, kratom should not be used more than about once per week.

    Kratom should also not be combined with other stimulants (cocaine, yohimbine, amphetamine – also called speed -, as well as caffeine) and drugs which suppress the nervous system (opiates, alcohol, or benzodiazepine), because of the danger of overstimulation or too strong a sedation that can cause breathing difficulties or standstill.

    Kratom should in addition not be combined with MAO inhibitors – MAOIs – (Peganum harmala, passionflowers, or antidepressants), since the combination of MAOIs with monoamines can evoke fatale reactions, although this has not been scientifically researched yet for kratom. MAO inhibitors have the effect of balancing certain brain transmitter substances. In this process they inhibit the so-called monoamine oxidase (MAO) and thus influence the reduction of certain brain transmitters. If one consumes body-foreign monoamines, they will not be broken down normally which can lead to a dangerous increase in blood pressure.

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    mike at competitiveedgelabs dot com


  5. Well, alright then!
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by mtinsideout View Post
    Kratom can actually darken the skin on your cheeks with continued use but I'm not sure how common this side effect is. Any one have any recommendations for something to stay focused and alert? I mentioned a stack in a previous post on the thread was hoping someone could give some input...
    I just started taking Ripped Cocktail by Lecheek and so far my focus is right on!

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Miss Q View Post
    I just started taking Ripped Cocktail by Lecheek and so far my focus is right on!
    Was thinking about something more for work. Looking into Adrafinil, Piracetam and alpha GPC... I mix up my own pre workouts for the gym which definitely gets me amped and focused but not in a way that is suitable for a desk job lol.
    Follow me on my log to life and lift: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229476-mtinsideouts-log-life.html

  8. Quote Originally Posted by mtinsideout View Post
    Was thinking about something more for work. Looking into Adrafinil, Piracetam and alpha GPC... I mix up my own pre workouts for the gym which definitely gets me amped and focused but not in a way that is suitable for a desk job lol.

    OKAY....I am officially out of this thread...I promise!!

  9. Pramiracetam+5-htp+modafinil/armodafinil=Killer mind stack
    Selegline+Pramiracetam+lexapro (escitalopram) =awesome


    right now im just using my lexapro+modafinil and its awesome. I love it!

    but PRAMI is by far the best racetam out there in my experience. Look into brotha and let us know how it goes!
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    Pramiracetam+5-htp+modafinil/armodafinil=Killer mind stack
    Selegline+Pramiracetam+lexapro (escitalopram) =awesome


    right now im just using my lexapro+modafinil and its awesome. I love it!

    but PRAMI is by far the best racetam out there in my experience. Look into brotha and let us know how it goes!
    Thanks for the info man. I'll let you guys know what I end up with and I will log it for everyone interested.
    Follow me on my log to life and lift: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229476-mtinsideouts-log-life.html

  11. Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    Pramiracetam+5-htp+modafinil/armodafinil=Killer mind stack
    Selegline+Pramiracetam+lexapro (escitalopram) =awesome


    right now im just using my lexapro+modafinil and its awesome. I love it!

    but PRAMI is by far the best racetam out there in my experience. Look into brotha and let us know how it goes!
    What an absolutely ridiculous stack to recommend to a newbie.
    Olympus Labs

  12. Sulbutamine on it's own is nothing really to wright home about but with caffeine it's actually really good for focus!

  13. For anyone interested I started a log:

    Brain Candy log (adrafinil, piractam and alpha GPC)
    Follow me on my log to life and lift: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229476-mtinsideouts-log-life.html

  14. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    Sulbutamine on it's own is nothing really to wright home about but with caffeine it's actually really good for focus!
    I love sulbutamine. Gives me a better "kick" than caffein. Clearer head too.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-GELS THE Prohormone alternative!
    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html

  15. Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    I love sulbutamine. Gives me a better "kick" than caffein. Clearer head too.
    Do you feel anything on it's own?!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    Do you feel anything on it's own?!
    Yes. It's very nice. Imagine a cleaner and more powerful "kick" than caffeine, like a very mild adderal feel. Although, you should only take once a day (so you can just enjoy a nice cup of coffee later on if it wares off, and 'Sulb' usually wears off within 4-6 hours, at least for me. I wouldn't recommend drinking a coffee for at least 4 hours after you take it, just because it's too much stims for your brain. It's one of my favorite nootropics. It tastes like crap if you buy the bulk powder, id always have to put it into capsules. The first time i took it, i had that tunnel vision effect, like in limitless, lol. It was pretty intense, in a good way though.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    What an absolutely ridiculous stack to recommend to a newbie.
    Haha completely agree with you on this one. I think he might be joking though?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Griz15 View Post
    Yes. It's very nice. Imagine a cleaner and more powerful "kick" than caffeine, like a very mild adderal feel. Although, you should only take once a day (so you can just enjoy a nice cup of coffee later on if it wares off, and 'Sulb' usually wears off within 4-6 hours, at least for me. I wouldn't recommend drinking a coffee for at least 4 hours after you take it, just because it's too much stims for your brain. It's one of my favorite nootropics. It tastes like crap if you buy the bulk powder, id always have to put it into capsules. The first time i took it, i had that tunnel vision effect, like in limitless, lol. It was pretty intense, in a good way though.
    That's pretty cool for you, what dose do you do?
    I for one don't feel anything with Sulbutamine on it's own, with Caffein I get a nice "focus" though! Yes, you're right, the taste is horrible and hard to flush out!

  19. I've been dosing:
    - oxi- for the past 4 months @ 5-10g/day
    - pi- for the past 2 months @ 10g/day
    - ani- for the past 1 month @ 5g/day

    I supplement dosage with:
    - 8-10g of omega 3,6,9 (I can get exact ratios when I get home)
    - 300mg ALCAR 2x/day
    - 150mg choline bitartrate 3x/day (will be upgrading to Alpha GPC in the coming weeks) (also get choline from eggs in AM)
    - multi-v
    - caffeine (3shots espresso in AM, 2 in PM, pre-workout in PM)
    - occasionally take focus XT with pre-workout

    Thoughts thus far:
    I dosing with the oxi- solo for the first two months and saw a noticeable difference in my productivity at work. To give you some perspective, I work as a consultant and am typically presented with complex IT and business problems which require logical thinking to solve. IMHO oxi- excels here: I am finding anything computer-based/logical is simpler than before. I also felt very process-based and task-focused. I've started taking this mid-day at which point I typically ramp up the quantity/volume of work I do. Coupled with caffeine and non-vocal trance/electronic music that has a great speed/beat to it, I frequently get lost in my work.

    I started adding the pi- 2 months ago and got WICKED headaches for the first couple weeks. This was presumably due to not adequately supplementing w/ choline (learned that lesson the hard way). I also noticed a drowsy head-fog feeling with my first couple dosages that pretty much knocked me out for a couple hrs. (I loaded w/ an attack dose of 15g for the first 3days - I did it over the weekend so as to not impact work). Since then, I haven't noticed any head-fog feeling. I noticed that it definitely adds a sense of clarity and focus which I enjoy during my drive into the office as well as when reading my news feed. I have noticed an increase in ability to ingest, digest, and retain information. Additionally, when I read about any type of mathematical or science related topic, I have a far greater ease in comprehension - likely due to the logical processing.

    I started the ani- about a month ago. I'm not too sure I enjoy it at this point as I seem to experience a feeling of dulled emotions. Don't get me wrong, it helps me to not get distracted by things, but I enjoy experiencing my emotions. I'm currently considering dropping it entirely.

    I'd recommend oxi- to those in any industry field requiring logical thought processing. I'd likely recommend ani- to anyone experiencing anxiety. (For anxiety, I'd also look at 5-HTP, however it isn't recommended to take in large quantities due to its interaction w/ MAOI inhibtors and interactions w/ seratonin receptors. I dosed 150mg 2x/day over 2 days and the best way to describe the feeling was "zen".) Pi- seems great in general, but it is one of the weaker -racetams.

    Some interesting things I've noticed are increased photo-sensitivity (which I strongly dislike) and increased sound perception. I also tend to get a bit of a "speedy" feeling when taking oxi- & caffeine mid-day resulting in increased hand movement (typing fast, clicking pens, dancing fingers on desk) and eye movement (rapid blinking, speed reading) - senses in general are heightened and constantly receiving and interpreting input.

    Some negatives I've noticed are irritability w/ ignorant people or people who don't follow logical processes. I have also been noticing that I am more dismissive of the same. It is easy to deal with, but was a bit interesting to notice when it first started happening.

    NOTES:
    ani- is fat soluble so I typically drop it with liquid fish oil in AM following breakfast (I also put 2 tbsps of olive oil on my eggs every morning)
    oxi- has a very pleasant "artificial sweetener-like" sweetness
    pi- is bitter sweet


    I'd be happy to discuss further...

  20. Quote Originally Posted by manstr View Post
    Haha completely agree with you on this one. I think he might be joking though?
    serious stacks that ive seen-

    these were more of a suggestion of products-not necessarily to be taken together in those exact stacks
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.

  21. When people talk about "nootropics", I wonder if they are searching for "energy" or just a "clear head"?

    I've taken several "nootropics", many that people swear by and felt essentially nothing (mainly the "Racetams").

    So...the only "nootropic" I've personally taken and can say I noticed enough of a difference that cannot be dismissed as "placebo" is Nuvigil (a brand of modafinil).

    As for the energy type, I have taken what athletes refer to as "greenies" which is clobenzorex (there are various brands). It's banned in the USA because it is an immediate "prodrug" of d-amphetamine, but pretty widely available.

    The d-amphetamine is much more noticeable, has a bit of euphoria with it, and an intense feeling of energy, but a bit of a "tweaked out" feeling I don't love. There is no mistaking it as a "placebo", it gets you moving and focused (and a bit euphoric).

    When I got a prescription of Nuvigil (brand of modafinil), I took 400 mg (2, 200 mg pills) with a cup of coffee. I waited for that euphoric blitz of energy to hit me (as did with clobenzorex), however it never did. What did happen however is I became wide awake (I'm generally a groggy person), and was able to get a lot done, articulate ideas, put thoughts and ideas together, etc. I started to enjoy the lack of "tweaked" out feeling, however missed the euphoria (so a give and take). IF I had any doubt about the effectiveness of Nuvigil, those were completely eliminated when I ran out. I drank a cup of coffee and stared at my computer for an hour before realizing I hadn't turned it on yet (truly).

    By the way: Adderall, Ritalin, and the like would fall into the amphetamine group, not unlike clobenzorex. I prefer clobenzorex because the others are blends of amphetamines that while super effective, give even more of a "tweaked out" feeling (especially after a few days in a row).

    Other than these (I know individual biology is different from person to person), I cannot say any other "nootropic" I've tried is worth a mention. There are tons of fans of the "Racetams", so don't take my word for it...however that's my honest .02.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    That's pretty cool for you, what dose do you do?
    I for one don't feel anything with Sulbutamine on it's own, with Caffein I get a nice "focus" though! Yes, you're right, the taste is horrible and hard to flush out!
    I haven't taken it since i ran out, awhile ago. I was just too lazy to order more haha. But hmm.. i put them in capsules, and i was taking somewhere around 600-800mg. Do not exceed 1000mg though. I tried it at just 200mg and it didn't do much, so i started dosing it between 600-800mg to feel the effects. You just have to experiment until you find the right dosage. It was easier for me to take more since i put them in capsules, i couldnt even take 200mg powder or id start gagging. The reason i felt the effects is because i dosed it pretty high only once a day, and it actually kept me going throughout the whole day. It would ware off in the evening, but that was perfect for me so i could get my stuff done. Try dosing it higher without caffeine, and see what you think. If you still dont feel a nice energy boost, then just continue with the caffeine. Nootropics are different for everyone, you have to experiment with them to find what dosage works for you. That's why it wont work on some people, you have to figure out what works for you. When i first tried nootropics, i bought piracetam. It never worked until finally i talked to some people who knew a lot about them and told me to experiment until i find the right dosage for me. I was only taking about 1600mg of piracetam at first, finally when i tried to up the dosage, i went to 3.2g and that's when i started to notice the effects. Some people have to take over 4g of piracetam to feel the great effects. Don't give up on nootropics, they are incredible when you figure out what works for you. It's just like medicine... Adderall for example ( im prescribed to it) at first i was taking 30mg once a day and it made me tweak and all weird. I asked to change the dosage to 10mg, and it was perfect for me. I also was on vyvanse at one point, i was taking 20mg once a day but it wore off in a week and did absolutely nothing.. so i got my dosage upped to 40mg once a day and it was perfect. Everybody is different. Certain face wash works for only some people ( i've been using this same face wash that got ratings of like 4/10, but for me it works fantastic and i haven't had a pimple since 6th grade) . Everybody is different, so you have to figure out on your own what works for you. The face wash comment didn't mean to sound like you shouldn't take it, because 'Sulb' is a fantastic nootropic. It just meant how people are different and if someone said they dose it at 200mg, doesn't mean it's going to be the same for you. I hope this helps a bit. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. I've been researching and studying this stuff for years, i know a lot about this and how the brain and body works.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    Do you feel anything on it's own?!
    Yeah for sure. I usually take my CILTEP stack in the morning and caffein when I am at school then sulbutamine when I get home from school for that last little kick to get through the day/night.

    I take between 400-500mg at a time (I weight 210)
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-GELS THE Prohormone alternative!
    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Griz15 View Post
    I haven't taken it since i ran out, awhile ago. I was just too lazy to order more haha. But hmm.. i put them in capsules, and i was taking somewhere around 600-800mg. Do not exceed 1000mg though. I tried it at just 200mg and it didn't do much, so i started dosing it between 600-800mg to feel the effects. You just have to experiment until you find the right dosage. It was easier for me to take more since i put them in capsules, i couldnt even take 200mg powder or id start gagging. The reason i felt the effects is because i dosed it pretty high only once a day, and it actually kept me going throughout the whole day. It would ware off in the evening, but that was perfect for me so i could get my stuff done. Try dosing it higher without caffeine, and see what you think. If you still dont feel a nice energy boost, then just continue with the caffeine. Nootropics are different for everyone, you have to experiment with them to find what dosage works for you. That's why it wont work on some people, you have to figure out what works for you. When i first tried nootropics, i bought piracetam. It never worked until finally i talked to some people who knew a lot about them and told me to experiment until i find the right dosage for me. I was only taking about 1600mg of piracetam at first, finally when i tried to up the dosage, i went to 3.2g and that's when i started to notice the effects. Some people have to take over 4g of piracetam to feel the great effects. Don't give up on nootropics, they are incredible when you figure out what works for you. It's just like medicine... Adderall for example ( im prescribed to it) at first i was taking 30mg once a day and it made me tweak and all weird. I asked to change the dosage to 10mg, and it was perfect for me. I also was on vyvanse at one point, i was taking 20mg once a day but it wore off in a week and did absolutely nothing.. so i got my dosage upped to 40mg once a day and it was perfect. Everybody is different. Certain face wash works for only some people ( i've been using this same face wash that got ratings of like 4/10, but for me it works fantastic and i haven't had a pimple since 6th grade) . Everybody is different, so you have to figure out on your own what works for you. The face wash comment didn't mean to sound like you shouldn't take it, because 'Sulb' is a fantastic nootropic. It just meant how people are different and if someone said they dose it at 200mg, doesn't mean it's going to be the same for you. I hope this helps a bit. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. I've been researching and studying this stuff for years, i know a lot about this and how the brain and body works.
    Cool, I'll try and dose Sulbutamine a little higher and see if that works better, thanks! Btw Adderall at 20mg makes me feel like Superman

  25. Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    Yeah for sure. I usually take my CILTEP stack in the morning and caffein when I am at school then sulbutamine when I get home from school for that last little kick to get through the day/night.

    I take between 400-500mg at a time (I weight 210)
    I'll try a little higher dose then, Thanks!
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