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    Quote Originally Posted by mpaquett View Post
    Kissadookie,

    You are by far the most infuriating poster I have ever seen, and you have contributed absolutely nothing to this thread. I am done with the back and forth after this post because Drewsicle is correct this is going no where, and I ask that if you have anything to actually contribute to this thread and the original purpose of this thread (remember that there was an actual OP and had nothing to do with anything you've posted on the last 3 pages).

    As I sit here staring at my Exercise Physiology textbook on the chapter of "Body Composition and Nutrition for Sport" it lists the 7 classifications of nutrients.

    Carbohydrates
    Lipid
    Protein

    Vitamins
    Minerals

    Water

    Macronutrients, Micronutrients and Water; I can assure you that PF3 is neither a vitamin or mineral. Micronutrients are trace elements which are naturally occuring (or man-made in the case of supplementation). PF3 does not fit into that category. This is one case where size simply does not matter. Per my previous example of supplementing with 2.5 milligrams (or 0.0025g) of L-leucine does the fact that it is only 2.5mg make it a micronutrient? No. It is still a macronutrient. It is still calories even at that small of a dose. 2.5mg of supplemented leucine still causes a small insulin spike, and it is still the equivalent to 0.01kcal, or 10 calories. Micronutrients do not provide the body with calories. The fact that it is listed on the label as 2.5g of protein and 10kcals means that it is indeed a macro.

    Now, with that being said this debate is absolutely absurd and I am finished. With that being laid out if you want to continue believing it to be a micronutrient by all means proceed. If you have something to actually contribute to this thread then by all means feel free to post, but constantly trying to attack my fellow associates and bashing my product is not welcome here.

    -Mpaquett
    The actual definition of macronutrients:

    Macronutrients constitute the bulk of the diet and supply energy and many essential nutrients. Carbohydrates, proteins (including essential amino acids), fats (including essential fatty acids), macrominerals, and water are macronutrients. Carbohydrates, fats, and proteins are interchangeable as sources of energy; fats yield 9 kcal/g (37.8 kJ/g); proteins and carbohydrates yield 4 kcal/g (16.8 kJ/g).

    There are three primary macronutrients defined as being the classes of chemical compounds humans consume in the largest quantities and which provide bulk energy. These are protein, fat, and carbohydrate. This list shows the categorization of the most common food components by these macronutrients. Macronutrients can also refer to the chemical elements humans consume in the largest quantities, see Nutrient.

    Now, definition of a protein macronutrient:

    Proteins are organic compounds that consist of the amino acids joined by peptide bonds. The body cannot manufacture some of the amino acids (termed essential amino acids); the diet must supply these. Proteins, in nutrition, are broken down through digestion by proteases back into free amino acids.


    I mean, if we go by what you are implying to constitute as protein macros, I guess we can just live off of free form AA's then eh? I mean, obviously you are implying that IgG, IgF, lactoferring, etc., which makes up more than 75% of the content of PF3, are considered macronutrients.

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    [QUOTE=thescience;4178559][QUOTE=kissdadookie;4178517][QUOTE=thescience;4178505]


    huh? if i eat a 1/4 teaspoon of fruit a day, i wouldnt consider that a significant part of my diet, but nevertheless it still contains macronutrients

    speaking to IGg, to the extend that it is broken down into individual amino acids ect , it is macronutrient.


    how am i falling back on anything? whats wrong with how i word things now? are you talking about when i say i would NOT put IGg into the same category as vitamins and minerals and you interpret that as agreeing with you that i would put IGg into that category with vitamins and minerals?

    As for you stating that you never said people only use proteins only for their bio-actives, I never stated that you said it and only stated that you implied it. One can not read your mind so if you are going to be confusing with your words, you should do something about that. As for you consistently acknowledging the nutritional value of protein powders, just because you switch two substances, doesnt mean the exchange is equal in every way. for me, i have made it clear already i am only interested in protein powder insofar as it keeps my gains and reduces doms, so if something else accomplished that, as some are claiming pure pf3 does, then i would be interested and i dont care about what nutritional value i may be giving up. do you see the distiction? for all practical purposes, i wouldnt care whatever nutritional value i lost as long as i got what people who have dropped the protein powder claimed to have gotten., i could make gains by eatin BUCKETS OF CHEEZE everyday, but that doesnt mean thats the best way for me to make gains. if i decided then to quit taking buckets of cheeze everyday, its true id be missing out on all kinds of nutritional value but i wouldnt care.
    One thing I do appreciate is how you have never committed to state absolute statements, thus you've left yourself plenty of wiggle room for you to fall back on "I never said that!"

    So, for the last time:

    Macronutrients constitute the bulk of the diet and supply energy and many essential nutrients. Carbohydrates, proteins (including essential amino acids), fats (including essential fatty acids), macrominerals, and water are macronutrients. Carbohydrates, fats, and proteins are interchangeable as sources of energy; fats yield 9 kcal/g (37.8 kJ/g); proteins and carbohydrates yield 4 kcal/g (16.8 kJ/g).

    There are three primary macronutrients defined as being the classes of chemical compounds humans consume in the largest quantities and which provide bulk energy. These are protein, fat, and carbohydrate. This list shows the categorization of the most common food components by these macronutrients. Macronutrients can also refer to the chemical elements humans consume in the largest quantities, see Nutrient.

    Now, definition of a protein macronutrient:

    Proteins are organic compounds that consist of the amino acids joined by peptide bonds. The body cannot manufacture some of the amino acids (termed essential amino acids); the diet must supply these. Proteins, in nutrition, are broken down through digestion by proteases back into free amino acids.

    It's painfully obvious that it is implied that when talking about protein macros, we are specifically talking about complex peptide bonded amino acids. Not freeform or proteins which contains over 75% of just antibodies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I mean, if we go by what you are implying to constitute as protein macros, I guess we can just live off of free form AA's then eh? I mean, obviously you are implying that IgG, IgF, lactoferring, etc., which makes up more than 75% of the content of PF3, are considered macronutrients.
    I didnt draw this conclusion from his post at all. just because something is a digestable protein and a macronutrient doesnt mean one has to forsake all other macro and micronutrients.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    I didnt draw this conclusion from his post at all. just because something is a digestable protein and a macronutrient doesnt mean one has to forsake all other macro and micronutrients.
    I think at this point, the best course to take is to agree to disagree. For the sake of our sanity.
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    It's 2.5g or whatever of protein with cool stuff in it that is supposed to make you grow. Lets move on already.
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    Let's talk about cookies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Let's talk about cookies.
    Cookies are good. My diet has been crap lately. I like white chocolate macadamia. If I could I would replace protein with cookies, but I would stay really fat
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    My brother makes great oatmeal cookies with white chocolate chips and dried cranberries. Very hearty!
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    I'm not a big fan of cookies but I got one with my tropical smoothie for lunch.
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    What if i'm a keto dieter? Are carbs still considered a macronutrient to me given they represent almost 0% of my diet?

    I'm not actually sure what the issue here even is? Why does it matter what classification PF3 falls under?
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    Because if we didn't argue semantics, this wouldn't be a true internet forum
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Because if we didn't argue semantics, this wouldn't be a true internet forum
    Ah yes too true!
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    And then Coop and I would hug it out under a beautiful Rainbow on a white sand beach somewhere with the tide cascading in on our bare feet. ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewsicle3210 View Post
    Total nonsense. Sure, some loggers may say stuff to make the company look good. I am all about being honest, and I don't think that MOST loggers are liars. Is that the way that you log products? By being dishonest?

    I don't log, I get everything I need from the wonderful company I work for.

    Protein. Tasty protein.

    And we don't shill BS supplements
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    Final review for pf3 up.

    Cliffs:

    Best pump product in my opinion, pre w/o.

    Strength increase def noticeable, as well as recovery.

    Leaning I feel is from a total decrease in protein content.

    It's expensive.

    Mixability issue's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Final review for pf3 up.

    Cliffs:

    Best pump product in my opinion, pre w/o.

    Strength increase def noticeable, as well as recovery.

    Leaning I feel is from a total decrease in protein content.

    It's expensive.

    Mixability issue's.
    lol gtfo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post

    lol gtfo
    Why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Final review for pf3 up.

    Cliffs:

    Best pump product in my opinion, pre w/o.

    Strength increase def noticeable, as well as recovery.

    Leaning I feel is from a total decrease in protein content.

    It's expensive.

    Mixability issue's.
    solid review here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Why?
    he wants to play the neg game!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022
    Hi, you have received -117178 reputation points from Diesel0022.
    Reputation was given for this post.

    Comment:
    pump? vasodilation from a peptide? lool

    Regards,
    Diesel0022

    Note: This is an automated message.
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    Maybe I should play too. Pick me, pick me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    he wants to play the neg game!
    He has a fair point about getting pumps
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    He has a fair point about getting pumps
    I would say the same thing Coop.

    However, I have no idea why but every time I took PF3 the pump I got from High Volume was intensified. I ran high volume plenty of times without PF3, there was a difference.

    I wish I could explain it lol.

    I don't shill either, I have stopped logs here and bb.com before if the product wasn't working.

    I'm stumped on how PF3 does what it does
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    Placebo? Maybe your carb intake or timing changed? Too many variables

    But the users on this site amaze me sometimes, anabolic minds: where the physiological possibilities are endless
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubsfan815 View Post
    I would say the same thing Coop.

    However, I have no idea why but every time I took PF3 the pump I got from High Volume was intensified. I ran high volume plenty of times without PF3, there was a difference.

    I wish I could explain it lol.

    I don't shill either, I have stopped logs here and bb.com before if the product wasn't working.

    I'm stumped on how PF3 does what it does
    How is your usual GI health? PF3 may have had a reparative effect on the GI tract. Less inflammation may have lead to greater uptake of __________ ingredients, including pump ingredients
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    He has a fair point about getting pumps
    no body has a fair point about telling me whether or not I had better pumps including it into my pre workout or not.

    that's just redonkulous.

    I was 100% honest. I also gave the final review enough time to stop using the product, and begin using glycophase an xgels. few weeks into those, and my pumps from adding these products aren't as good as with pf3.

    I always have agmatine an citruline malate on hand, and always add it into my pre workout drinks. the only difference was the addition of pf3.

    I have a video review up discussing my thoughts on the product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post
    Placebo? Maybe your carb intake or timing changed? Too many variables

    But the users on this site amaze me sometimes, anabolic minds: where the physiological possibilities are endless
    go back to bb.com where you came from newbie.
    nothing changed in my timing or diet except the removal of my usual hydrolyzed whey isolate, and adding in pf3.

    I workout at the same exact time every day.

    pacebo? uh no. there is no placebo when you expect the product to do nothing. placebo would be more logical if I said I experienced nothing, as this is what I expected.

    I am not new to reviewing products either sponsored, or on my own.

    the physiological possibilities aren't endless, and to say this is to toss every research study completely out the window and say it's all full of crap.
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    Nothing in the product would directly result in increased pumps but it's quite possible that it may help increase the uptake of some pump ingredients you are either taking in bulk or which are in your preworkout. I think the best way to see if the product has a direct impact on pumps would be to abstain from pump products for a little while when running PF3. Just my 2 cents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Nothing in the product would directly result in increased pumps but it's quite possible that it may help increase the uptake of some pump ingredients you are either taking in bulk or which are in your preworkout. I think the best way to see if the product has a direct impact on pumps would be to abstain from pump products for a little while when running PF3. Just my 2 cents.
    I'll have to give that a try, though I noticed no enhanced effect of other ingredients, like the ones found in focus xt, when I would take it at 3am along with pf3.
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    Bb.com? GRN bro

    3 negs, 6 reps, I must be doing something right

    I suggest you head out of the supp section, try nutrition or possibly the steroid section. Supplements aren't working for you.

    Back to GRN, night


    Edit: are you ****ing real? You want cns penetration from pf3 too? No wonder why everyone calls this place a intellectual wasteland
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    I'll have to give that a try, though I noticed no enhanced effect of other ingredients, like the ones found in focus xt, when I would take it at 3am along with pf3.
    Could be ingredients specific. I personally have not gotten anything but improved recovery from PF3/Bio-Gro but improved pumps have been a regular mention from many others whom have used the products and seeing all the other things they take, a common link has usually been that other products they have been using contained good pump promoting ingredients, so I would think that PF3 may possibly help with the uptake of some of these ingredients as it's usually being dosed with or shortly after ingesting some pump ingredients.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post
    Bb.com? GRN bro

    3 negs, 6 reps, I must be doing something right

    I suggest you head out of the supp section, try nutrition or possibly the steroid section. Supplements aren't working for you.

    Back to GRN, night


    Edit: are you ****ing real? You want cns penetration from pf3 too? No wonder why everyone calls this place a intellectual wasteland
    I don't have the rep I have from making friends.

    but you are right, I don't notice much from most supplements besides short lived effects, but it's enough to judge whether or not it's doing anything. im not a supplement junkie, or guru.

    If you don't like the atmosphere here, you should go back to bb.com, or w/e other forum you frequent. and you failed to understand the reply to coops an kiss's response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubsfan815 View Post
    I would say the same thing Coop.

    However, I have no idea why but every time I took PF3 the pump I got from High Volume was intensified. I ran high volume plenty of times without PF3, there was a difference.

    I wish I could explain it lol.

    I don't shill either, I have stopped logs here and bb.com before if the product wasn't working.

    I'm stumped on how PF3 does what it does
    It's truly a great product. I have used it in the past and had great results from it. I love the insane pumps that it gives it really does a good job with that and not very difficult to take at all.
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    well that's enough internet for today.
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    I trust the loggers' experiences. JBry (and others) have been very honest in their logs. Some even quit due to some issues and we were fine with that. Maybe the PF3 helped with uptake of other ingredients, maybe it helped GI blah blah blah...it worked for him and many others.

    Feel free to doubt him, as is your right; but when he responds, what else are you expecting from him? Diesel, your agenda is obvious from your comments. Maybe we can one day hook you up with a product you doubt less.
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    I dont want anyone causing any grief for anyone who has taken the time to detail their experiences using pf3 for the benefit of our edification. jbrand101b is held in high esteem on these forums; he's an honerable representative from an awesome company and his observations are spot-on
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleGauge1 View Post
    It's truly a great product. I have used it in the past and had great results from it. I love the insane pumps that it gives it really does a good job with that and not very difficult to take at all.
    It is very much no would say is exactly like a ship carrying a cargo that will never reach any port. And as long as it is alive, that ship will always be at sea, so to speak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    It is very much no would say is exactly like a ship carrying a cargo that will never reach any port. And as long as it is alive, that ship will always be at sea, so to speak.
    If that ship is the U.S.S. Nonsense, you have docked her, Captain Touey.
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    Just ordered me a tub of enhanced, prob shouldn't review it though, as the effects will probably be placebo and totally outlandish amiright?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Just ordered me a tub of enhanced, prob shouldn't review it though, as the effects will probably be placebo and totally outlandish amiright?
    Or it will make you puke (my experience) and absolutely be the PF3s fault. Cause everything is PF3's fault. Ya dig?
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    ​" If you're looking for a work house.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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