MAN SPORTS REPS come on in......

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    This is actually an effect I'd expect from it. It increases gut immune function and reduces inflammation, making it a great tool for IBS. If you replace your protein intake with just PF3, you will die of malnutrition. All of the EAAs have always been needed for the sustenance of human life and muscle growth
    I don't think anyone is going to stop all sources if protein and just use PF3. Some have said that they stopped using whey, but still eat whole food sources of protein.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post
    Come on lol loggers are almost never honest, if they talk bad they know they wont get anymore free product.

    Like all those old logs on CEE in various forum archives? Where it was working better than creatine mono? Get real dude
    Total nonsense. Sure, some loggers may say stuff to make the company look good. I am all about being honest, and I don't think that MOST loggers are liars. Is that the way that you log products? By being dishonest?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Our loggers are being honest and their progress is speaking volumes.

    To answer OP, a serving pre and post would work. Some swear by an intra dose; some dose before bed. 2-3 a day should be just fine from what we're seeing!
    Most of the loggers that were chosen are reputable members of this community, an I have read previous logs from most of them. I am confident that they are being honest. Hell, some of them honestly don't think it is effective at all, and a couple have had some GI disturbances.

    I agree that the loggers are providing honest feedback. And I don't understand why so many people feel the need to attack MAN sports. You don't see this kind of bashing with other supps that are new to the market, at least not as bad. What's with the MAN bashing. If you don't like it then don't buy it. Just my opinion. I haven't tried PF3 yet...

  4. We've had a couple loggers who didn't like PF3 and didn't finish their log. We were fine with that. Feedback has been overwhelmingly positive though.

    People are getting their RDA of protein from whole foods, and as stated above, are foregoing a scoop of protein to hit their RDAs.

    I really don't know why MAN is getting this backlash; perhaps protein is a major product that many companies are selling (or soon to be) and when a product like PF3 comes along there's going to be some jealousy.

    Rocky drank whole eggs. Arnold advocated lecithin tablets. Then it was protein powder. Now it's PF3. Some people are just resistant to change, but these examples show change is good.
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  5. Check out my log on cyanostane and you will see honesty: )
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by broken bottle View Post
    It is not a replacement for whey. Whey should be taken with it for max benefit, at least that's the gist I got when I asked about this.
    You have NAILED IT with this comment. That's why it frustrates me to no end every time someone is implying that this can replace their protein supplements. You can't replace food with a micro nutrient. It's not rocket science. It frustrates me equally as bad when I see people implying that whey protein/protein supplements are anything other than mainly a powdered food source. Then when I see people throw around the notion that PF3 can save them money because they can cut out using protein supplements, that's friggin ridiculous because you're obviously going to then get your protein from whole foods. So essentially, all that one is doing at that point is replacing one food source with another but it's a far cry from replacing a food source with PF3.

    So the ad-copy itself is very misleading as it leaves the whole "PF3 vs protein supplements on bio-active content comparison" disclaimer hidden away in the giant wall of marketing mumbo jumbo. Technically the ad-copy is not lying but the problem is that it's very obviously trying to give one the idea that PF3 replaces whey/protein supplements which in turn would imply that PF3 replaces protein macros which the stuff very obviously does not in any way, shape, or form (but for the typical lay person reading the marketing gibberish, the sad sod would end up thinking that's what they will be able to do). If they just went with the honest Abe route of clearly explaining that PF3 is something extra you add into your current nutrition and supplement stack to enhance protein synthesis, I would be totally fine with it and the product does have it's place in that regard. I honestly think that the product wouldn't end up being under so much scrutiny as well if the marketing didn't go so overboard.

  7. i keep seeing pf3 referred to as a micro-nutrient here. this is not a micro nutrient. IGg, for example, is a bioactive protein. proteins are not micronutrients. NOBODY anywhere has discussed abandoning all protein intake for pf3. thats absurd. there are people who stopped taking protein powder for pf3 that did not raise their food levels to mimic protein levels to that of when they were on the protein powder; while i intend to continue observing how its going for them, i know they will not become malnourished because they arent taking whey powder in addition to the protein they will always have in their wholefood diet. when i hear people experimentally getting off powder totally for the pf3, its not something ive done or have resolved to do, but im very interested in what they are doing as i wonder how much of the protein powder i eat goes to building muscle and how much of it goes on to be converted to carbs and fat. as im always trying to bulk, i have a hard time justifying cutting something out that i know is beneficial, but i suspect some of the protein powder im taking may only be going to fat reserves so i will continue to observe those who are dropping powder.

  8. Cliffs on PF3 ?
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    i keep seeing pf3 referred to as a micro-nutrient here. this is not a micro nutrient. IGg, for example, is a bioactive protein. proteins are not micronutrients. NOBODY anywhere has discussed abandoning all protein intake for pf3. thats absurd. there are people who stopped taking protein powder for pf3 that did not raise their food levels to mimic protein levels to that of when they were on the protein powder; while i intend to continue observing how its going for them, i know they will not become malnourished because they arent taking whey powder in addition to the protein they will always have in their wholefood diet. when i hear people experimentally getting off powder totally for the pf3, its not something ive done or have resolved to do, but im very interested in what they are doing as i wonder how much of the protein powder i eat goes to building muscle and how much of it goes on to be converted to carbs and fat. as im always trying to bulk, i have a hard time justifying cutting something out that i know is beneficial, but i suspect some of the protein powder im taking may only be going to fat reserves so i will continue to observe those who are dropping powder.
    These apprehensions you have about "big bad protein powder" fly in the face of decades of research on supplemental protein. I have agreed not to comment further on PF3, but I will comment on this stance that conventional protein powder is laced with inadequacies. No it isn't. I'd post a citation to prove my point, but the list is so exhaustive that you'd be looking at 1000+ citations.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    i keep seeing pf3 referred to as a micro-nutrient here. this is not a micro nutrient. IGg, for example, is a bioactive protein. proteins are not micronutrients. NOBODY anywhere has discussed abandoning all protein intake for pf3. thats absurd. there are people who stopped taking protein powder for pf3 that did not raise their food levels to mimic protein levels to that of when they were on the protein powder; while i intend to continue observing how its going for them, i know they will not become malnourished because they arent taking whey powder in addition to the protein they will always have in their wholefood diet. when i hear people experimentally getting off powder totally for the pf3, its not something ive done or have resolved to do, but im very interested in what they are doing as i wonder how much of the protein powder i eat goes to building muscle and how much of it goes on to be converted to carbs and fat. as im always trying to bulk, i have a hard time justifying cutting something out that i know is beneficial, but i suspect some of the protein powder im taking may only be going to fat reserves so i will continue to observe those who are dropping powder.
    If it's not a micro-nutrient then what is it? Macro nutrients are what is needed to to provide humans with the bulk of their required energy in order to continue life. Micro nutrients are what is used by humans in VERY SMALL QUANTITIES to perform physiological functions. PF3 IS a micro-nutrient. Plain and simple. For it to be used as a macro nutrient, that measly <10 grams a day of the stuff is NOWHERE near what would be needed. Not to mention that the AA profile is completely different from what we typically need from protein macros.

    Do you seriously not have any idea of the difference between a MACRO nutrient and a MICRO nutrient? Seriously? Also, why do you consistently flip flop? Earlier you were IMPLYING that PF3 could help you save money on whey but cutting the whey out of your diet which in effect, IMPLIES that PF3 replaces PROTEIN MACROS. That is the direct distillation of what YOU have posted. Now you are flipping it around and stating that nobody is suggesting that PF3 replaces protein intake. WHEY PROTEIN IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PROTEIN MACROS SOURCE. Whey protein powder is not taken in ADDITION to whole food diets, THAT is absurd. Whey protein is just powdered food, why do you insist on implying that it's something other than powdered food? It's far less of a supplement and much more akin (and actually, IT IS) convenience food.

    Your observation of people dropping protein powder makes ZERO sense as that nets you ZERO insight into what PF3 itself adds to the table. Again, PROTEIN POWDER IS JUST A CONVENIENT PROTEIN MACRO SOURCE. IT IS JUST POWDERED FOOD. You want to observe the way you are implying PF3 to work? Get some people to replace protein macros with PF3. THAT is the ONLY valid and reasonable/logical way you will be able to asses the effects or lack thereof.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    If it's not a micro-nutrient then what is it? Macro nutrients are what is needed to to provide humans with the bulk of their required energy in order to continue life. Micro nutrients are what is used by humans in VERY SMALL QUANTITIES to perform physiological functions. PF3 IS a micro-nutrient. Plain and simple. For it to be used as a macro nutrient, that measly <10 grams a day of the stuff is NOWHERE near what would be needed. Not to mention that the AA profile is completely different from what we typically need from protein macros.

    Do you seriously not have any idea of the difference between a MACRO nutrient and a MICRO nutrient? Seriously? Also, why do you consistently flip flop? Earlier you were IMPLYING that PF3 could help you save money on whey but cutting the whey out of your diet which in effect, IMPLIES that PF3 replaces PROTEIN MACROS. That is the direct distillation of what YOU have posted. Now you are flipping it around and stating that nobody is suggesting that PF3 replaces protein intake. WHEY PROTEIN IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PROTEIN MACROS SOURCE. Whey protein powder is not taken in ADDITION to whole food diets, THAT is absurd. Whey protein is just powdered food, why do you insist on implying that it's something other than powdered food? It's far less of a supplement and much more akin (and actually, IT IS) convenience food.

    Your observation of people dropping protein powder makes ZERO sense as that nets you ZERO insight into what PF3 itself adds to the table. Again, PROTEIN POWDER IS JUST A CONVENIENT PROTEIN MACRO SOURCE. IT IS JUST POWDERED FOOD. You want to observe the way you are implying PF3 to work? Get some people to replace protein macros with PF3. THAT is the ONLY valid and reasonable/logical way you will be able to asses the effects or lack thereof.
    No, actually you have no idea what a micro-nutrient is. Macro nutrients are carbs, lipids and protein. Micro-nutrients are vitamins and minerals. PF3 is not a vitamin or a mineral. PF3 is a protein, which means it is a macro.

    My jaw literally dropped at your explanation of the difference between macro and micro-nutrients.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mpaquett View Post
    No, actually you have no idea what a micro-nutrient is. Macro nutrients are carbs, lipids and protein. Micro-nutrients are vitamins and minerals. PF3 is not a vitamin or a mineral. PF3 is a protein, which means it is a macro.

    My jaw literally dropped at your explanation of the difference between macro and micro-nutrients.
    Not for how PF3 is intended to be used. The key to PF3 are the bio-active peptides. Bio-active peptides the last time I checked are NOT categorized as macro nutrients. My jaws actually dropped from reading what you've just posted which implies that antibodies such as IgG and IgF are considered macro nutrients. VERY shocking.

    Look at your marketing, the product is NOT being highlighted as a macro nutrient supplement, I mean, HOW can it be when it is only 2.5 grams of protein per scoop? The things being highlighted are the antibodies and the other micro-fractions. It's NOT being highlighted for peptide bonded proteins which are commonly referred to when talking about protein macros.

    You simply CAN'T have it both ways. IF you are going to treat PF3 as a source for macros then the dosing is simply NOT going to work, one would be hugely malnutritioned. The product is CLEARLY (or NOT so clearly going by the ad-copy, which honestly deserves it's own discussion) advertised for the bio-actives which are going to fall into the micro nutrients camp.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Not for how PF3 is intended to be used. The key to PF3 are the bio-active peptides. Bio-active peptides the last time I checked are NOT categorized as macro nutrients. My jaws actually dropped from reading what you've just posted which implies that antibodies such as IgG and IgF are considered macro nutrients. VERY shocking.

    Look at your marketing, the product is NOT being highlighted as a macro nutrient supplement, I mean, HOW can it be when it is only 2.5 grams of protein per scoop? The things being highlighted are the antibodies and the other micro-fractions. It's NOT being highlighted for peptide bonded proteins which are commonly referred to when talking about protein macros.

    You simply CAN'T have it both ways. IF you are going to treat PF3 as a source for macros then the dosing is simply NOT going to work, one would be hugely malnutritioned. The product is CLEARLY (or NOT so clearly going by the ad-copy) advertised for the bio-actives which are going to fall into the micro nutrients camp.
    You are an extremely butt-hurt individual for some reason. Did you miss the part about micro-nutrients only being vitamins or minerals? Regardless of the serving size it is a macro nutrient. Does only taking 2.5mg of L-leucine make it a micronutrient? No, it's still a macronutrient. If you look at iForce's Compete it is the same thing; 2500mg of WPI listed as 2.5g of protein. The product is marketed as a Pharma grade protein with emphasis given to the bio-actives.

    We're taking about a supplement here. Why would taking PF3 make some malnourished if they are supplementing their diet with it? That statement doesn't even make sense. I take PF3 daily and can assure you I am doing just fine.

  14. I'm still alive and I've been taking PF3.

    I wonder why more attention isn't paid to companies who dismiss amino acid content in protein formulations as filler then go ahead and sell you those exact amino acids as a standalone supplement. Why exactly are we being targeted (by a small cadre over and over again)? We're up front with what PF3 is but lately it's like we're banging our heads against a wall.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    I'm still alive and I've been taking PF3.

    I wonder why more attention isn't paid to companies who dismiss amino acid content in protein formulations as filler then go ahead and sell you those exact amino acids as a standalone supplement. Why exactly are we being targeted (by a small cadre over and over again)? We're up front with what PF3 is but lately it's like we're banging our heads against a wall.
    People are scared of what is new and unknown to them. Also this cadre you speak of will only support a product either of their own (if they are so affiliated) or if it has 900000000 research tests done on it. Very short sighted individuals who are unwilling to self experiment to come to their own conclusions.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    People are scared of what is new and unknown to them. Also this cadre you speak of will only support a product either of their own (if they are so affiliated) or if it has 900000000 research tests done on it. Very short sighted individuals who are unwilling to self experiment to come to their own conclusions.
    Couldn't have put it better myself

  17. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Do you seriously not have any idea of the difference between a MACRO nutrient and a MICRO nutrient? Seriously?
    call it what you want, but im not going to place bioactive protein in the same category as vitamins and minerals.
    Also, why do you consistently flip flop? Earlier you were IMPLYING that PF3 could help you save money on whey but cutting the whey out of your diet which in effect, IMPLIES that PF3 replaces PROTEIN MACROS. That is the direct distillation of what YOU have posted
    i havent flip-floped at all. my previous statement (in another thread that you are bringing up) referred to the pf3 ad which was being challenged for claims that i never saw it make. after seeing reviews where people are actually experimenting making the switch and reporting positive effects, im observing it and speculating into why that may be the case.
    Your observation of people dropping protein powder makes ZERO sense as that nets you ZERO insight into what PF3 itself adds to the table.
    bro, its an observation of what people are actually doing, not an arguement, and i happen to be curious about it since these people are leaders in so experimenting. again, the people im referring to are not replacing the protein powder they dropped with food. i take protein powder for two reasons only: to make gains and to combat doms, and yes protein powder has an anti doms effect for me to a certain extent. again, as those are the only two reasons im interested in taking protein and people who have dropped protein powder without making up for it in food while taking pf3 have reported those areas are good, ive become interested in potentially trying that.
    Again, PROTEIN POWDER IS JUST A CONVENIENT PROTEIN MACRO SOURCE. IT IS JUST POWDERED FOOD. You want to observe the way you are implying PF3 to work? Get some people to replace protein macros with PF3. THAT is the ONLY valid and reasonable/logical way you will be able to asses the effects or lack thereof.
    [/QUOTE]what do you mean implying? i posted a review by stak3d where people did exactly what you are talking about. what people are doing warrents my curiousity, and i dont understand why that would inflame anybody

  18. I'm new here and what is this?

    No really, wtf is going on.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    These apprehensions you have about "big bad protein powder" fly in the face of decades of research on supplemental protein. I have agreed not to comment further on PF3, but I will comment on this stance that conventional protein powder is laced with inadequacies. No it isn't. I'd post a citation to prove my point, but the list is so exhaustive that you'd be looking at 1000+ citations.
    im not sure where you get big bad protein powder from my statements; i use it and love it, but as someone who lifts weights i went ten years before touching the stuff. once i started taking it, i made gains but i got alittle fat in my midsection so im not going to pretend the stuff is devine. again, people getting off of it are leaning out as well.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by neddo View Post
    I'm new here and what is this? No really, wtf is going on.
    I wish I knew sometimes. Q & A
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  21. How does MPI make you fat?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    call it what you want, but im not going to place bioactive protein in the same category as vitamins and minerals.i havent flip-floped at all. my previous statement (in another thread that you are bringing up) referred to the pf3 ad which was being challenged for claims that i never saw it make. after seeing reviews where people are actually experimenting making the switch and reporting positive effects, im observing it and speculating into why that may be the case.bro, its an observation of what people are actually doing, not an arguement, and i happen to be curious about it since these people are leaders in so experimenting. again, the people im referring to are not replacing the protein powder they dropped with food. i take protein powder for two reasons only: to make gains and to combat doms, and yes protein powder has an anti doms effect for me to a certain extent. again, as those are the only two reasons im interested in taking protein and people who have dropped protein powder without making up for it in food while taking pf3 have reported those areas are good, ive become interested in potentially trying that.
    what do you mean implying? i posted a review by stak3d where people did exactly what you are talking about. what people are doing warrents my curiousity, and i dont understand why that would inflame anybody[/QUOTE]

    So you are ALSO calling it a micro nutrient then, since you are placing it with vitamins and minerals (as would I).

    So with THAT out of the way, you have stated SEVERAL times that PF3 could POSSIBLY replace your whey protein. Last time I checked, whey protein is a PROTEIN MACRONUTRIENT SOURCE. So if YOU are going to categorize PF3 as a MICRONUTRIENT, PLEASE explain the logic behind you mentioning several times the possibility of PF3 replacing whey protein.

    Again, a MICRONUTRIENT does NOT replace a MACRONUTRIENT. It is quite obvious at this point that you have some sort of distorted view on what whey protein actually is.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by ccnAbolic View Post
    How does MPI make you fat?
    i assume you mean wpi. the fact is, if every gram of protein we ate turned into muscle, we would just keep getting more and more muscle by taking more and more protein. the body has other ways of using the protein we eat besides our intention to build muscle. technically, you could blame the body and not the protein powder

  24. Quote Originally Posted by mpaquett View Post
    You are an extremely butt-hurt individual for some reason. Did you miss the part about micro-nutrients only being vitamins or minerals? Regardless of the serving size it is a macro nutrient. Does only taking 2.5mg of L-leucine make it a micronutrient? No, it's still a macronutrient. If you look at iForce's Compete it is the same thing; 2500mg of WPI listed as 2.5g of protein. The product is marketed as a Pharma grade protein with emphasis given to the bio-actives.

    We're taking about a supplement here. Why would taking PF3 make some malnourished if they are supplementing their diet with it? That statement doesn't even make sense. I take PF3 daily and can assure you I am doing just fine.
    Your very own rep, The Science, has also just pointed out TODAY that he considers PF3 to be in the same category as vitamins and minerals.

    As for us talking about supplements. Protein supplements does not SUPPLEMENT ones protein macro intake, it actually figures in DIRECTLY into ones protein macro intake. That is how it is used. It's only labeled as a supplement but lets face it, it's essentially powdered food. PF3 as it is marketed and designed for, is NOT a replacement of macronutrients. It is very obvious that it truly IS a supplement one takes IN ADDITION to ones diet. It AUGMENTS ones diet. Protein powder on the other hand, that actually DOES displace protein macro intake from whole foods. Or are you suggesting that if I was to need 170 grams of protein a day, supplementing with whey protein is going to be in addition to the 170 grams of protein I get from whole foods? Obviously not, it's going to displace some of the protein I would have originally taken in from whole foods.

    This is the entire problem, the advertising and The Science consistently IMPLY that people take protein supplements SPECIFICIALLY for the microfractions, thus PF3 is going to be superior. HOWEVER, NOBODY, at least no sensible person I know of, is actually taking protein supplements specifically for the microfractions, they are taking it specifically to help hit their protein macro goals.

  25. People are still talking about PF3?

    I haven't taken any yet and I'm getting bigger by the week.
    I guess I'll survive without it?
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Your very own rep, The Science, has also just pointed out TODAY that he considers PF3 to be in the same category as vitamins and minerals.

    As for us talking about supplements. Protein supplements does not SUPPLEMENT ones protein macro intake, it actually figures in DIRECTLY into ones protein macro intake. That is how it is used. It's only labeled as a supplement but lets face it, it's essentially powdered food. PF3 as it is marketed and designed for, is NOT a replacement of macronutrients. It is very obvious that it truly IS a supplement one takes IN ADDITION to ones diet. It AUGMENTS ones diet. Protein powder on the other hand, that actually DOES displace protein macro intake from whole foods. Or are you suggesting that if I was to need 170 grams of protein a day, supplementing with whey protein is going to be in addition to the 170 grams of protein I get from whole foods? Obviously not, it's going to displace some of the protein I would have originally taken in from whole foods.

    This is the entire problem, the advertising and The Science consistently IMPLY that people take protein supplements SPECIFICIALLY for the microfractions, thus PF3 is going to be superior. HOWEVER, NOBODY, at least no sensible person I know of, is actually taking protein supplements specifically for the microfractions, they are taking it specifically to help hit their protein macro goals.
    What in the wild world of ****s are you raving about?

    Is there a point to your ramblings, or am I just bert staring for the fun of it?
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  27. I often wonder if people walking into this thread for the first time have any idea what anyone's central thesis is in one succinct line.

    I urge anybody interested to check the promo logs we have going to see how PF3 is treating users IN THE REAL WORLD OF ACTUAL USE AND TRAINING
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Your very own rep, The Science, has also just pointed out TODAY that he considers PF3 to be in the same category as vitamins and minerals.
    i think maybe you misread my post. i said i do NOT put them into the category that you have.



    This is the entire problem, the advertising and The Science consistently IMPLY that people take protein supplements SPECIFICIALLY for the microfractions, thus PF3 is going to be superior. HOWEVER, NOBODY, at least no sensible person I know of, is actually taking protein supplements specifically for the microfractions, they are taking it specifically to help hit their protein macro goals.
    i have entertained switching for the sole purpose of keeping/making my gains and keeping my doms away. ive specifically said those are the only reasons i take protein and that i dont care about any others. thats all ive said. i never said people take protein purely for the subfractions and neither did the ad; in fact, ive advocated for its nutritional value. if there is another way for me to get that benefit that people are describing, im interested. the ad itself had to pit the bioactive content of pure pf3 to the bioactive content of protein powder; this wasnt done to trick anybody. if that graphic wasnt put up there, people would think they may have all the bioactives they could benefit from in their protein already, or perhaps theyde thinks its no different from protein. the graphic very excellently portrayed that.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    People are still talking about PF3?

    I haven't taken any yet and I'm getting bigger by the week.
    I guess I'll survive without it?
    Yes, but how much bigger could you be had you been using it? Hmmmmmm?...the world will never know now!

  30. Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    i assume you mean wpi. the fact is, if every gram of protein we ate turned into muscle, we would just keep getting more and more muscle by taking more and more protein. the body has other ways of using the protein we eat besides our intention to build muscle. technically, you could blame the body and not the protein powder
    I meant milk protein isolate, but "insert isolate here" works too. Either way, I think that would depend on the individual's own body as well as how they are using the protein.

    Edit: Milk protein in general for that matter...
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