MAN SPORTS REPS come on in......
- 09-21-2013, 03:15 PM
- 09-21-2013, 03:17 PM
- 09-21-2013, 03:27 PM
I agree that the loggers are providing honest feedback. And I don't understand why so many people feel the need to MAN sports. You don't see this kind of bashing with other supps that are new to the market, at least not as bad. What's with the MAN bashing. If you don't like it then don't buy it. Just my opinion. I haven't tried PF3 yet...
09-21-2013, 05:31 PM
We've had a couple loggers who didn't like PF3 and didn't finish their log. We were fine with that. Feedback has been overwhelmingly positive though.
People are getting their RDA of protein from whole foods, and as stated above, are foregoing a scoop of protein to hit their RDAs.
I really don't know why MAN is getting this backlash; perhaps protein is a major product that many companies are selling (or soon to be) and when a product like PF3 comes along there's going to be some jealousy.
Rocky drank whole eggs. Arnold advocated lecithin tablets. Then it was protein powder. Now it's PF3. Some people are just resistant to change, but these examples show change is good.
09-21-2013, 07:17 PM
Check out my log on cyanostane and you will see honesty: )
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09-21-2013, 09:03 PM
So the ad-copy itself is very misleading as it leaves the whole "PF3 vs protein supplements on bio-active content comparison" disclaimer hidden away in the giant wall of marketing mumbo jumbo. Technically the ad-copy is not lying but the problem is that it's very obviously trying to give one the idea that PF3 replaces whey/protein supplements which in turn would imply that PF3 replaces protein macros which the stuff very obviously does not in any way, shape, or form (but for the typical lay person reading the marketing gibberish, the sad sod would end up thinking that's what they will be able to do). If they just went with the honest Abe route of clearly explaining that PF3 is something extra you add into your current nutrition and supplement stack to enhance protein synthesis, I would be totally fine with it and the product does have it's place in that regard. I honestly think that the product wouldn't end up being under so much scrutiny as well if the marketing didn't go so overboard.
09-21-2013, 10:45 PM
i keep seeing pf3 referred to as a micro-nutrient here. this is not a micro nutrient. IGg, for example, is a bioactive protein. proteins are not micronutrients. NOBODY anywhere has discussed abandoning all protein intake for pf3. thats absurd. there are people who stopped taking protein powder for pf3 that did not raise their food levels to mimic protein levels to that of when they were on the protein powder; while i intend to continue observing how its going for them, i know they will not become malnourished because they arent taking whey powder in addition to the protein they will always have in their wholefood diet. when i hear people experimentally getting off powder totally for the pf3, its not something ive done or have resolved to do, but im very interested in what they are doing as i wonder how much of the protein powder i eat goes to building muscle and how much of it goes on to be converted to carbs and fat. as im always trying to bulk, i have a hard time justifying cutting something out that i know is beneficial, but i suspect some of the protein powder im taking may only be going to fat reserves so i will continue to observe those who are dropping powder.
09-22-2013, 12:57 AM
Cliffs on PF3 ?
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09-22-2013, 01:02 AM
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
09-22-2013, 01:08 PM
Do you seriously not have any idea of the difference between a MACRO nutrient and a MICRO nutrient? Seriously? Also, why do you consistently flip flop? Earlier you were IMPLYING that PF3 could help you save money on whey but cutting the whey out of your diet which in effect, IMPLIES that PF3 replaces PROTEIN MACROS. That is the direct distillation of what YOU have posted. Now you are flipping it around and stating that nobody is suggesting that PF3 replaces protein intake. WHEY PROTEIN IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PROTEIN MACROS SOURCE. Whey protein powder is not taken in ADDITION to whole food diets, THAT is absurd. Whey protein is just powdered food, why do you insist on implying that it's something other than powdered food? It's far less of a supplement and much more akin (and actually, IT IS) convenience food.
Your observation of people dropping protein powder makes ZERO sense as that nets you ZERO insight into what PF3 itself adds to the table. Again, PROTEIN POWDER IS JUST A CONVENIENT PROTEIN MACRO SOURCE. IT IS JUST POWDERED FOOD. You want to observe the way you are implying PF3 to work? Get some people to replace protein macros with PF3. THAT is the ONLY valid and reasonable/logical way you will be able to asses the effects or lack thereof.
09-22-2013, 08:36 PM
My jaw literally dropped at your explanation of the difference between macro and micro-nutrients.
09-23-2013, 09:59 AM
Look at your marketing, the product is NOT being highlighted as a macro nutrient supplement, I mean, HOW can it be when it is only 2.5 grams of protein per scoop? The things being highlighted are the antibodies and the other micro-fractions. It's NOT being highlighted for peptide bonded proteins which are commonly referred to when talking about protein macros.
You simply CAN'T have it both ways. IF you are going to treat PF3 as a source for macros then the dosing is simply NOT going to work, one would be hugely malnutritioned. The product is CLEARLY (or NOT so clearly going by the ad-copy, which honestly deserves it's own discussion) advertised for the bio-actives which are going to fall into the micro nutrients camp.
09-23-2013, 10:22 AM
We're taking about a supplement here. Why would taking PF3 make some malnourished if they are supplementing their diet with it? That statement doesn't even make sense. I take PF3 daily and can assure you I am doing just fine.
09-23-2013, 12:49 PM
I'm still alive and I've been taking PF3.
I wonder why more attention isn't paid to companies who dismiss amino acid content in protein formulations as filler then go ahead and sell you those exact amino acids as a standalone supplement. Why exactly are we being targeted (by a small cadre over and over again)? We're up front with what PF3 is but lately it's like we're banging our heads against a wall.
09-23-2013, 01:01 PM
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09-23-2013, 02:06 PM
09-23-2013, 02:15 PM
i havent flip-floped at all. my previous statement (in another thread that you are bringing up) referred to the pf3 ad which was being challenged for claims that i never saw it make. after seeing reviews where people are actually experimenting making the switch and reporting positive effects, im observing it and speculating into why that may be the case.Also, why do you consistently flip flop? Earlier you were IMPLYING that PF3 could help you save money on whey but cutting the whey out of your diet which in effect, IMPLIES that PF3 replaces PROTEIN MACROS. That is the direct distillation of what YOU have postedbro, its an observation of what people are actually doing, not an arguement, and i happen to be curious about it since these people are leaders in so experimenting. again, the people im referring to are not replacing the protein powder they dropped with food. i take protein powder for two reasons only: to make gains and to combat doms, and yes protein powder has an anti doms effect for me to a certain extent. again, as those are the only two reasons im interested in taking protein and people who have dropped protein powder without making up for it in food while taking pf3 have reported those areas are good, ive become interested in potentially trying that.Your observation of people dropping protein powder makes ZERO sense as that nets you ZERO insight into what PF3 itself adds to the table.[/QUOTE]what do you mean implying? i posted a review by stak3d where people did exactly what you are talking about. what people are doing warrents my curiousity, and i dont understand why that would inflame anybodyAgain, PROTEIN POWDER IS JUST A CONVENIENT PROTEIN MACRO SOURCE. IT IS JUST POWDERED FOOD. You want to observe the way you are implying PF3 to work? Get some people to replace protein macros with PF3. THAT is the ONLY valid and reasonable/logical way you will be able to asses the effects or lack thereof.
09-23-2013, 02:21 PM
I'm new here and what is this?
No really, wtf is going on.
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09-23-2013, 02:25 PM
09-23-2013, 02:25 PM
09-23-2013, 02:36 PM
09-23-2013, 02:41 PM
So you are ALSO calling it a micro nutrient then, since you are placing it with vitamins and minerals (as would I).
So with THAT out of the way, you have stated SEVERAL times that PF3 could POSSIBLY replace your whey protein. Last time I checked, whey protein is a PROTEIN MACRONUTRIENT SOURCE. So if YOU are going to categorize PF3 as a MICRONUTRIENT, PLEASE explain the logic behind you mentioning several times the possibility of PF3 replacing whey protein.
Again, a MICRONUTRIENT does NOT replace a MACRONUTRIENT. It is quite obvious at this point that you have some sort of distorted view on what whey protein actually is.
09-23-2013, 02:45 PM
09-23-2013, 02:46 PM
As for us talking about supplements. Protein supplements does not SUPPLEMENT ones protein macro intake, it actually figures in DIRECTLY into ones protein macro intake. That is how it is used. It's only labeled as a supplement but lets face it, it's essentially powdered food. PF3 as it is marketed and designed for, is NOT a replacement of macronutrients. It is very obvious that it truly IS a supplement one takes IN ADDITION to ones diet. It AUGMENTS ones diet. Protein powder on the other hand, that actually DOES displace protein macro intake from whole foods. Or are you suggesting that if I was to need 170 grams of protein a day, supplementing with whey protein is going to be in addition to the 170 grams of protein I get from whole foods? Obviously not, it's going to displace some of the protein I would have originally taken in from whole foods.
This is the entire problem, the advertising and The Science consistently IMPLY that people take protein supplements SPECIFICIALLY for the microfractions, thus PF3 is going to be superior. HOWEVER, NOBODY, at least no sensible person I know of, is actually taking protein supplements specifically for the microfractions, they are taking it specifically to help hit their protein macro goals.
09-23-2013, 02:52 PM
People are still talking about PF3?
I haven't taken any yet and I'm getting bigger by the week.
I guess I'll survive without it?
09-23-2013, 02:53 PM
09-23-2013, 02:57 PM
I often wonder if people walking into this thread for the first time have any idea what anyone's central thesis is in one succinct line.
I urge anybody interested to check the promo logs we have going to see how PF3 is treating users IN THE REAL WORLD OF ACTUAL USE AND TRAINING
09-23-2013, 02:58 PM
i have entertained switching for the sole purpose of keeping/making my gains and keeping my doms away. ive specifically said those are the only reasons i take protein and that i dont care about any others. thats all ive said. i never said people take protein purely for the subfractions and neither did the ad; in fact, ive advocated for its nutritional value. if there is another way for me to get that benefit that people are describing, im interested. the ad itself had to pit the bioactive content of pure pf3 to the bioactive content of protein powder; this wasnt done to trick anybody. if that graphic wasnt put up there, people would think they may have all the bioactives they could benefit from in their protein already, or perhaps theyde thinks its no different from protein. the graphic very excellently portrayed that.This is the entire problem, the advertising and The Science consistently IMPLY that people take protein supplements SPECIFICIALLY for the microfractions, thus PF3 is going to be superior. HOWEVER, NOBODY, at least no sensible person I know of, is actually taking protein supplements specifically for the microfractions, they are taking it specifically to help hit their protein macro goals.
09-23-2013, 03:20 PM
09-23-2013, 03:45 PM
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