The Anabolic Minds Supplement Roundtable - AnabolicMinds.com

The Anabolic Minds Supplement Roundtable

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    The Anabolic Minds Supplement Roundtable


    Fellow AM'ers I bring to you The Anabolic Minds Supplement Roundtable. A place where any ingredient can be tabled and discussed by some of the brightest minds the supplement industry has to offer. Have you ever questioned an ingredient, have you ever wondered the science behind it, if it worked for others, and if it has been decided to be effective? If so, this is the place for you.

    ANYONE can table an ingredient (not company or product) at which point we will all discuss the ingredients in a conducive fashion. We will discuss it like King Arthur and his Knights discussed who's ass they were going to go kick!

    This wasn't added to the science section because ALL thought is welcome and not everything needs to be scientific. Although, there will be a decent amount of scientific Anabolic Minds coming in to offer their help!

    So let's get this party started! Table some ingredients I know quite a few gents who are eagerly awaiting to do what they do best and that is to help people make informed decisions within the realm of the supplement world!

    I table Creatine (obvious much)! Let's get it going... science, anecdote, best ways to take, stability, synergistic ingredients, results... THE WHOLE GAMUT!!!!

    Welcome to The Anabolic Minds Supplement Roundtable
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    Awesome idea. I've had a creatine question for a while... Once mixed in water is it stable? Or do you have to drink it within a certain timeframe so it doesn't convert to creatinine?
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    Name:  download (11).jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_b View Post
    Awesome idea. I've had a creatine question for a while... Once mixed in water is it stable? Or do you have to drink it within a certain timeframe so it doesn't convert to creatinine?
    Edit: could be incorrect though.

    It appears I am .

    Pa "creatine is plenty stable in liquids for practical purposes. even if you dissolved it in the most acidic juice or liquid you can think of it would maintain almost all its potency for hours."
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    Boom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Subbed for the ride!
    When Celorza starting in on the subbing to ride, know will it be thread of Name:  628.gif
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    Not to be a Debbie downer. But isn't this sort of the whole point of the "supplement forum"?

    Forums within threads make for finding info really difficult
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    and the advanced discussion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Edit: could be incorrect though.

    It appears I am .

    Pa "creatine is plenty stable in liquids for practical purposes. even if you dissolved it in the most acidic juice or liquid you can think of it would maintain almost all its potency for hours."
    Thanks! - Easy to trust info info from PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Not to be a Debbie downer. But isn't this sort of the whole point of the "supplement forum"?

    Forums within threads make for finding info really difficult
    More about an ongoing discussion that can get heated up, in a neutral environment without it being directed to companies or their products. Just ingredients on the market.

    Idea is to have a go to thread to ask direct help or scientific questions about a supp with or without science, so that the scientific minds (i.e @De__eB , @mr.cooper69 , @Synapsin ) could answer them if desired, or how about even better...people can go at it with science jargon on layman's terms for everyone here...without them being direct on the company/company product thread. So we leave advice on what the consumer already bought to them and create a mentality to STOP BASHING AND FLAMING, and we take the gloves off to pick the articles and the discussion, inflammatory, non-inflammatory, pot stirring, proofing or disproofing of concepts HERE.

    Of course, you being a man of science, AND everyone else is welcome to simply go at it nitpicking every little thing that they want to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Not to be a Debbie downer. But isn't this sort of the whole point of the "supplement forum"?

    Forums within threads make for finding info really difficult
    could be, could be a great place to chat about supps, without clogging up the sup section with random simple questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    and the advanced discussion?
    is for advanced discussion
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post

    is for advanced discussion
    I guess discussing the science behind the supplement made me think of advanced supplement discussion and why Celorza mentioned the science based guys to come here. Maybe I misunderstood the intent of the thread.

    Subbed for info anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Not to be a Debbie downer. But isn't this sort of the whole point of the "supplement forum"?

    Forums within threads make for finding info really difficult
    It'll work out just fine I think. I didn't see any objections from you to "Advanced discussion with Coop" or "Coop's corner", Josh. Thanks for the concern though man. With the likes of Deebs, jiiggzz (sp? Lol) and Synapsin (Coop's mentor) stopping in to help answer questions it should prove to be a very worthwhile, informative and helpful thread. You could liken it to Coop's corner but with a roundtable presence. A group, team or board of directors type deal. Sort of like a supplement review, with some scientific minds, practical use, common questions etc...

    There seems to be some excitement thus far!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    and the advanced discussion?
    The advanced discussion section is strictly for "advanced discussion" this is for everything. A body of supplement users that help with the making of informed decisions in regards to supps!!! Another thing that sets this apart from the advanced section is the use of layman's terms. A theme that should be regularly occurring in this thread is that anyone can come in and have something explained to them so that they actually understand what is being said, making their decision an informed one. Being able to understand the terminology used will help to actually grasp WHY you should or shouldn't use a supplement in a given scenario. Instead of hearing a bunch of big words that only about 2% of the forum understands.

    Now that we all know what is expected and the theme let's get it started!

    Great question on creatine! Keep them coming!

    I personally think that everyone should take creatine not just for gym benefits. Check this out from a reliable site:


    According to the International Society of Sports Nutrition, creatine (monohydrate) is the most effective ergogenic (performance-enhancing) nutritional supplement currently available to athletes for increasing high-intensity exercise capacity and lean body mass during training.[1] A variety of forms are available and are discussed in the complete summary, but have not been shown to exert significant benefits over basic monohydrate supplementation.

    Creatine's main action in the body is to store high-energy phosphate groups in the form of phosphocreatine. During periods of stress, phosphocreatine releases this energy to aid cellular function. This mechanism of action is what causes creatine to increase strength, but can benefit almost every body system, including the brain, bones, muscles, and liver. Most benefits of creatine occur through this energy mechanism.

    Creatine is produced naturally in the body, and it is also found in foods (mostly meats, eggs, and fish; some in dairy).

    Creatine has been shown to increase DHT (dihydrotestosterone) levels by 40% with a dosage of 5g per day. DHT is directly involved in hair loss in men, so long-term creatine usage could accelerate hair loss.

    Creatine supplementation at normal dosages and with adequate hydration has been shown to have no harmful effects in any population tested (see its safety profile). The only observed side effects are stomach cramping if consumed with insufficient water, and diarrhea if too much is consumed at once. Controlled usage of creatine with adequate water may actually reduce cramping over the long term.
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    Things to Note

    Creatine has been reported (anecdotally) to have a subtle, but noticeable stimulatory effect on Cognition. Less potent than classical stimulants like Caffeine, these may be placebo.
    Creatine is known for causing water-weight gains after starting use. Gaining 5lbs or so the day after beginning usage of a creatine-containing product is relatively common and completely harmless.
    Caffeine may adversely interact with creatine's actions on muscle contraction, and should be controlled for before somebody judges how creatine works for them.
    Some people report being "non-responders" to creatine supplementation. Although caffeine co-ingestion can explain some of this effect, there seems to be some literature suggesting that non-responders may exist independently of caffeine. The mechanism is not known.
    There have been some anecdotal reports of restlessness when creatine is taken within an hour of sleep.
    From examine.com
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    There is now ongoing research about creatine being tested for Parkinson's and Alzheimer's prevention.

    Also, it seems that creatine and Agmatine shouldn't be co-ingested. Space your doses, not for gym benefits really but for the cognition side of things.

    Time for anecdotal evidence creatine is the ****!
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    What is the reasoning behind separating the doses of creatine and agmatine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    What is the reasoning behind separating the doses of creatine and agmatine?

    Creatine appears to positively regulate the polyamine binding site of NMDA receptors, thereby increasing signalling through this receptor and the effects of agonists such as glutamate of D-Aspartic Acid. This is a potential mechanism for cognitive enhancement
    Agmatine:


    Does not go well with

    Creatine and D-Aspartic Acid due to reducing signalling via the NMDA receptors
    Basically they counteract each other when taken together.
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    Creatine's effect on DHT should be taken with a grain of salt. There have been conflicting studies on that characteristic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post

    I guess discussing the science behind the supplement made me think of advanced supplement discussion and why Celorza mentioned the science based guys to come here. Maybe I misunderstood the intent of the thread.

    Subbed for info anyways.
    There is science, and there is advanced discussion.
    One you would understand, the other, without proper education, probably not.
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    Give the thread a chance. Id like to think this can be used as a platform for layman's terms answers to people's questions that arent so much advanced but for which if they were to search the forums they wouldnt really find a clear concise answer.

    Regarding creatine stability , creatine monohydrate is highly stable for extended periods of time in water
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Give the thread a chance. Id like to think this can be used as a platform for layman's terms answers to people's questions that arent so much advanced but for which if they were to search the forums they wouldnt really find a clear concise answer.

    Regarding creatine stability , creatine monohydrate is highly stable for extended periods of time in water
    Alright Deebs I'm going to use this to my benefit as a supplement enthusiast. Talk to me about berberine man. You and or @Synapsin. I've seen a few studies comparing it to metformin. Being in a large chunk of gda's would you mind giving a basic rundown so people can understand how awesome this ingredient is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Alright Deebs I'm going to use this to my benefit as a supplement enthusiast. Talk to me about berberine man. You and or @Synapsin. I've seen a few studies comparing it to metformin. Being in a large chunk of gda's would you mind giving a basic rundown so people can understand how awesome this ingredient is?
    Berberine is underrated imo and one that many people should include in their stacks from time to time. Lowers LDL and blood triglycerides; and for those that don't know, when blood triglycerides are high, LDL particles become smaller and more dense, thus making them more likely to be oxidized and form plaque on arteries (atherosclerosis/ heart disease).
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    What is the reasoning behind separating the doses of creatine and agmatine?
    Physiologically, there's no reason unless you have a cognitive or mitochondrial disorder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Physiologically, there's no reason unless you have a cognitive or mitochondrial disorder.
    Or if trying to benefit from the cognitive properties of creatine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    (Tribulus Aquaticus (Stem and Leouriaf) Extract, Chebulic Myrobalan (Bean) Extract)
    ? This a question, comment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    ? This a question, comment?
    ANYONE can table an ingredient (not company or product) at which point we will all discuss the ingredients in a conducive fashion. We will discuss it like King Arthur and his Knights discussed who's ass they were going to go kick!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    Alright Deebs I'm going to use this to my benefit as a supplement enthusiast. Talk to me about berberine man. You and or @Synapsin. I've seen a few studies comparing it to metformin. Being in a large chunk of gda's would you mind giving a basic rundown so people can understand how awesome this ingredient is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Berberine is underrated imo and one that many people should include in their stacks from time to time. Lowers LDL and blood triglycerides; and for those that don't know, when blood triglycerides are high, LDL particles become smaller and more dense, thus making them more likely to be oxidized and form plaque on arteries (atherosclerosis/ heart disease).
    If one is considering berberine, he/she definitely needs to be aware of the host of CYP interactions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post

    ANYONE can table an ingredient (not company or product) at which point we will all discuss the ingredients in a conducive fashion. We will discuss it like King Arthur and his Knights discussed who's ass they were going to go kick!

    (Tribulus Aquaticus (Stem and Leouriaf) Extract, Chebulic Myrobalan (Bean) Extract)
    Oh, you want to talk about it.

    Okay, what is it? Cause Idk. Is it Inteteresting enough for me to want to search and read about it?

    If so, why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post

    Oh, you want to talk about it.

    Okay, what is it? Cause Idk. Is it Inteteresting enough for me to want to search and read about it?

    If so, why?
    Fruit and water chestnut extracts...outside of that I could never find much outside of anecdotal feedback on being very good or not good(GI effects or none).

    Edit: berberine is solid. Using it in AP right now on high carb meals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Or if trying to benefit from the cognitive properties of creatine
    No, unless you have cognitive decline or mt disorders that require supraphysiological doses of creatine for phosphate donation and/or allosteric modulation of the NMDA receptor. I hate to say it but the examine.com authors are data miners...they don't know how to interpret it. Creatine has a saturating effect, so according to them, we can never take agmatine period if we want to boost cognitive function, even if our last creatine dose was 12 hours ago. Agmatine will block the NMDA receptor in a manner independent of creatine's allosterism, so there is no real antagonism, just independent effects
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    Berberine is legit. I think a major reason it's not more heavily touted for actual therapeutic effects on diabetes is because it lowers the Cmax of many co-ingested drugs while simultaneously reducing metabolism
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Berberine is legit. I think a major reason it's not more heavily touted for actual therapeutic effects on diabetes is because it lowers the Cmax of many co-ingested drugs while simultaneously reducing metabolism
    Some months back I kinda recall you had mentioned it could hinder the benefits of hypertrophy, that the carb blocking would be not ideal also for a bulk? Can you elaborate on this for the crowd Dr.Cooper?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post

    Some months back I kinda recall you had mentioned it could hinder the benefits of hypertrophy, that the carb blocking would be not ideal also for a bulk? Can you elaborate on this for the crowd Dr.Cooper?
    Induces AMPK, no?
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/231713-rob112-3-means.html
    "Train like a beast, think like a human"-RTS
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