The Anabolic Minds Supplement Roundtable

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob112 View Post
    I'd have to disagree. My knee wraps allow me to squat more. I think he is referring to it being wrongly included in sports supplements as being a direct anabolic. Due to the fact it shows properties of this in bones and has bone fracture studies to back it, some sports companies took that to be anabolic in bones = anabolic in muscle.
    Well of course other factors come into play here but for many people if Cissus wasn't an option, they would be hurting.

    Agreed with the second part though.
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    A must have for joints
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    By allowing you to lift heavier, you could say it has anabolic qualities.
    Not really equatable to having a direct anabolic action though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Not really equatable to having a direct anabolic action though.
    True.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob112 View Post
    I'd have to disagree. My knee wraps allow me to squat more.

    I think he is referring to it being wrongly included in sports supplements as being a direct anabolic. Due to the fact it shows properties of this in bones and has bone fracture studies to back it, some sports companies took that to be anabolic in bones = anabolic in muscle.
    Yes, these are the assertions I've read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Not really equatable to having a direct anabolic action though.
    Want to dissect this one?

    Oddly enough I've never tried Cissus despite frequent joint pain. I think it's time.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17274828/

    RESULTS: CQR-300 as well as CORE exhibited antioxidant properties in vitro. They also acted as in vivo antioxidants, bringing about significant (p < 0.001) reductions in plasma TBARS and carbonyls. Both CQR-300 and CORE also brought about significant reductions in weight, body fat, total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, triglycerides, and fasting blood glucose levels over the respective study periods. These changes were accompanied by a significant increase in HDL-cholesterol levels, plasma 5-HT, and creatinine.

    CONCLUSION: CQR-300 (300 mg daily) and CORE (1028 mg daily) brought about significant reductions in weight and blood glucose levels, while decreasing serum lipids thus improving cardiovascular risk factors. The increase in plasma 5-HT and creatinine for both groups hypothesizes a mechanism of controlling appetite and promoting the increase of lean muscle mass by Cissus quadrangularis, thereby supporting the clinical data for weight loss and improving cardiovascular health.
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    There is a great review on the functions of cissus published out of Creighton University. Worth a read for those that use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Want to dissect this one?

    Oddly enough I've never tried Cissus despite frequent joint pain. I think it's time.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17274828/

    You'll notice their conclusion and abstract mention promoting increase of muscle mass but nowhere in actual content of the study do they measure or mention anything to do with lean mass

    For joints, definitely, for lean mass/anabolism? I remain skeptical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    You'll notice their conclusion and abstract mention promoting increase of muscle mass but nowhere in actual content of the study do they measure or mention anything to do with lean mass

    For joints, definitely, for lean mass/anabolism? I remain skeptical.
    The mirror isn't an accurate enough measure?

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    Will catch up but subbed before I forget where this thread is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    You'll notice their conclusion and abstract mention promoting increase of muscle mass but nowhere in actual content of the study do they measure or mention anything to do with lean mass

    For joints, definitely, for lean mass/anabolism? I remain skeptical.
    Do the calculations with BF% changes and arrive at the LBM change. The authors are blatantly lying, it's somewhat comical.

    Cissus may work for weight reduction secondary to an increase in plasma 5HT and thus less food consumed. This explains its "synergy" with african mango, which works via a similar mechanism, this time manipulating leptin.

    Cissus has outstanding anti-inflammatory and osteogenic data though, which is the main reason it should be used.
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    How long should I wait after working out to take my Cissus?. Does it matter if it is empty stomach or not?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    How long should I wait after working out to take my Cissus?. Does it matter if it is empty stomach or not?.
    On an empty stomach it has been known to cause nausea or stomachal discomfort. I recommend it with meals due to having had said side effects myself, and i would recommend to keep it away 4 hours from any peri workout time frame, and some time away from bed time. For some reason some of my friends do get a little bit of falling asleep issues, though this might be placebo, when taken late at night.

    The idea for keeping it away form the workout is due to the inflammatory response from resistance weight training, which can be hindered a little bit thanks to Cissus. Though I consider ir it a must have for cartilage and joint health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by good2Badawg View Post
    How about plain old ALA..can we get say some discussion going on. Thought it was beneficial although least effective of Ala's, but have read mostly conflicting info on it
    ALA at 9gr/day....sit back and be amazed!

    Wicked heartburn sometimes, way worth it though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post

    ALA at 9gr/day....sit back and be amazed!

    Wicked heartburn sometimes, way worth it though.
    finally, a reply that was beneficial to my needs lol. thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post

    ALA at 9gr/day....sit back and be amazed!

    Wicked heartburn sometimes, way worth it though.
    Insulin-like properties? Antioxidant properties?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Do the calculations with BF% changes and arrive at the LBM change. The authors are blatantly lying, it's somewhat comical.

    Cissus may work for weight reduction secondary to an increase in plasma 5HT and thus less food consumed. This explains its "synergy" with african mango, which works via a similar mechanism, this time manipulating leptin.

    Cissus has outstanding anti-inflammatory and osteogenic data though, which is the main reason it should be used.
    Synergy w berberine to on the 5ht
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    How do you figure?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    ALA at 9gr/day....sit back and be amazed!

    Wicked heartburn sometimes, way worth it though.
    Damn - I've never had heartburn from ALA even though I'm generally VERY prone to heartburn/acid reflux

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post

    Insulin-like properties? Antioxidant properties?
    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post

    Damn - I've never had heartburn from ALA even though I'm generally VERY prone to heartburn/acid reflux
    I had the heartburn at around 600mg and above. I was curious though, this is aimed towards the people with extensive knowledge... I been reading Ala Is useless and I should get the R isomer or N.

    So my question is plain Ala worthless or?
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    Benefit or not recommended....


    Taking fish oil with xgels?
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    For those prone to heartburn, you may want to read up on d-limonene.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post
    I had the heartburn at around 600mg and above. I was curious though, this is aimed towards the people with extensive knowledge... I been reading Ala Is useless and I should get the R isomer or N. So my question is plain Ala worthless or?
    @EBFinc can elaborate better than I can but that's not entirely true. It's all from the same source, just bonded to make more stable (more bang per mg) but it comes at a price.

    I tried my pre with 200mg R-ALA and it seemed to work just as well as the 900mg of regular ALA

    But regular ALA is dirt cheap, like 1 kilo for $90, that's about a 3 months dosing at 9-10gr/day.
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    Whats a good dose for potassium nitrate? I found some bulk powder for cheap and I'm thinking of trying it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWinging View Post
    Whats a good dose for potassium nitrate? I found some bulk powder for cheap and I'm thinking of trying it out.
    For me, I try to be conservative - I keep my doses between 750mg and 1 gr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Benefit or not recommended....

    Taking fish oil with xgels?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Benefit or not recommended....

    Taking fish oil with xgels?
    Not dosed at the same time- space them out 4-6 hrs

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWinging View Post
    Whats a good dose for potassium nitrate? I found some bulk powder for cheap and I'm thinking of trying it out.
    You want to shoot for about 300-350mg of actual nitrates which for Pot nitrate would be roughly 700mgs. I personally use 4 caps of Iforce po5asium nitrate and one scoop of Powershock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    For those prone to heartburn, you may want to read up on d-limonene.

    ive used that as part of a topical formula and it didnt turn out well either

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    For me, I try to be conservative - I keep my doses between 750mg and 1 gr.
    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    You want to shoot for about 300-350mg of actual nitrates which for Pot nitrate would be roughly 700mgs. I personally use 4 caps of Iforce po5asium nitrate and one scoop of Powershock
    Alright, so around 700mg is a good dose. How does it compare to 8 grams of citrulline malate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWinging View Post
    Alright, so around 700mg is a good dose. How does it compare to 8 grams of citrulline malate?
    Here is what I am currently taking, in case it helps:

    Ingredient Grams
    Citrulline 6.67
    Agmatine 1.0
    Potassium Nitrate 0.866666667
    NAC 0.5
    Ascorbic Acid 0.5


    YMMV
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    Any benefit to taking more than 1 gram of agmatine a day?. I've read some posts of people taking up to 4 grams a day. Is there any benefit or is it just a waste after a certain amount?
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Any benefit to taking more than 1 gram of agmatine a day?. I've read some posts of people taking up to 4 grams a day. Is there any benefit or is it just a waste after a certain amount?
    My sweet spot for Agmatine has always been 1.5g when just using bulk powder, i seem to get increased pumps up to 1500mg then nothing more after that. For some reason i seem to get headaches with anything above 2 grams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adizzle1 View Post
    My sweet spot for Agmatine has always been 1.5g when just using bulk powder, i seem to get increased pumps up to 1500mg then nothing more after that. For some reason i seem to get headaches with anything above 2 grams.

    I don't run it for the pumps. I rarely get any pumps from any product anyway. What I like about agmatine is that it helps put me in a better mood and helps me relax. Not really something that helps much pre-workout. I'm still wondering if going above 1 gram a day has any increased benefits. I'm talking about total dosage, and not just at one time. Spread out throughout the day. Say 1 gram post workout, one gram 5-6 hours later, and one gram before bed.
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    Here's an interesting question in regards to powdered mixed supplements. How can you be sure you are getting the amounts listed on the bottle with each scoop. Say a product says it has 250 mg of L-dopa, and various milligram amounts of say 7 other supplement powders. Even if you shake up the bottle, how can you be sure you are getting the specific amount per serving or scoop. I know nothing of the manufacture of supplements and this confuses me. Someone care to explain how this works?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Here's an interesting question in regards to powdered mixed supplements. How can you be sure you are getting the amounts listed on the bottle with each scoop. Say a product says it has 250 mg of L-dopa, and various milligram amounts of say 7 other supplement powders. Even if you shake up the bottle, how can you be sure you are getting the specific amount per serving or scoop. I know nothing of the manufacture of supplements and this confuses me. Someone care to explain how this works?.
    I'm no rocket scientist - but I weight everything on a scale - and shake the crap out of it (sorry for the technical jargon) prior to each use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I'm no rocket scientist - but I weight everything on a scale - and shake the crap out of it (sorry for the technical jargon) prior to each use.
    That still wouldn't guarantee even distribution, no matter how much you shake it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    That still wouldn't guarantee even distribution, no matter how much you shake it.
    I realize that; its sort of the best I can do - for convenience.

    If I were taking something that had a very specific dosage requirement, I'd keep it in bulk, and measure dosage every day. I do that with Potassium Nitrate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Here's an interesting question in regards to powdered mixed supplements. How can you be sure you are getting the amounts listed on the bottle with each scoop. Say a product says it has 250 mg of L-dopa, and various milligram amounts of say 7 other supplement powders. Even if you shake up the bottle, how can you be sure you are getting the specific amount per serving or scoop. I know nothing of the manufacture of supplements and this confuses me. Someone care to explain how this works?.
    Its called Homogenization. Depending on the materials used, there density, weight etc, the powders are mixed or milled for a certain period of time until they are 100% evenly distributed or homogenized, this should be verified by post production third party testing. As supplements sit, they settle so shaking them up will help to eliminate settling and help maintain homogenization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adizzle1 View Post
    Its called Homogenization. Depending on the materials used, there density, weight etc, the powders are mixed or milled for a certain period of time until they are 100% evenly distributed or homogenized, this should be verified by post production third party testing. As supplements sit, they settle so shaking them up will help to eliminate settling and help maintain homogenization.
    Interesting. Thanks for this, never knew how this worked.
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