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The skinny stack (usp pes ebf)

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    I think we can all agree they're not make or break (greens or amino counting)

    I'm close to 200lbs and sit between 6-8% bf and have never counted aminos or greens as calories so I look at "studies" with a grain of salt...

    Macro nutrient/whole food counting is what matters most in all this. Other wise we're splitting hairs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    I think we can all agree they're not make or break (greens or amino counting)

    I'm close to 200lbs and sit between 6-8% bf and have never counted aminos or greens as calories so I look at "studies" with a grain of salt...

    Macro nutrient/whole food counting is what matters most in all this. Other wise we're splitting hairs
    Veggies are part of your macro's and whole food hence why they list calories on their labels.
    Its not a study that a food has calories, that is why they label it.

    They key factor is consistency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post

    Veggies are part of your macro's and whole food hence why they list calories on their labels.
    Its not a study that a food has calories, that is why they label it.

    They key factor is consistency.
    Steve doesn't count his veggies and I'm pretty sure he knows more about all of this than all of us combined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Steve doesn't count his veggies and I'm pretty sure he knows more about all of this than all of us combined.
    Just stating a fact bro.
    Go find a package of veggies, it will list calories. If you want to count them great, if you dont by all means. Just stating the fact veggies are calories in the end.

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    Fiber....doesn't count
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Fiber....doesn't count
    they are partially digested by the bacteria in your large intestine and reabsorbed as short chain fatty acids there... so yes they do have some caloric value.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    I think we can all agree they're not make or break (greens or amino counting)

    I'm close to 200lbs and sit between 6-8% bf and have never counted aminos or greens as calories so I look at "studies" with a grain of salt...

    Macro nutrient/whole food counting is what matters most in all this. Other wise we're splitting hairs
    Do Aminos spike insulin pre or post workout? (Recover pro)
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Do Aminos spike insulin pre or post workout? (Recover pro)
    Aminos are free forms of protein, they do spike insulin and cause a rise in blood glucose. Protein alone spikes inuslin levels:

    Shown here in Graph:

    http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/u...-Tech-2008.pdf
    http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/prote..._frequency.pdf
    http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/nutrition...ne-norton.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Do Aminos spike insulin pre or post workout? (Recover pro)
    Yes, pretty good too, but short lived
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    On the amino/veggie debate what I'm seeing here is two people saying the same thing with different words yet still disagreeing. Allow me to put it all together here... yes, these things have calories, macronutrients, and physiological effects. Now, when it comes to say putting foods into fitday or whatever it is you use, some may choose not to actually record them. That's ok as long as you are AWARE of their existence and consider what might be too much/too little, what types, timing, etc.

    Say someone consistently takes in 10 g of BCAAs on lifting days as well as 150 kcal/day in green vegetables. They strategically placed those things where they are and are aware of the calorie and macronutrient content, but to make things easy when running rough macro calculations they leave them out. I see nothing wrong here, because when that person works out 200 g protein for a day, they KNOW that it is actually 210 g plus whatever amount is in their vegetables.
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    I generally don't calculate it BC it's not a complete protein I guess just a few aminos 40-100 cals won't kill me lol

    I make up for it with lower days ect
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    Quote Originally Posted by classic34 View Post
    \yes, these things have calories, macronutrients, and physiological effects. Now, when it comes to say putting foods into fitday or whatever it is you use, some may choose not to actually record them. That's ok as long as you are AWARE of their existence and consider what might be too much/too little, what types, timing, etc.

    Say someone consistently takes in 10 g of BCAAs on lifting days as well as 150 kcal/day in green vegetables. They strategically placed those things where they are and are aware of the calorie and macronutrient content, but to make things easy when running rough macro calculations they leave them out. I see nothing wrong here, because when that person works out 200 g protein for a day, they KNOW that it is actually 210 g plus whatever amount is in their vegetables.
    Hence the bold = Consistency

    If he drinnks 60g of aminos and eats 6 cups of veggies everyday it will still be in there even if he tracks or does not track, BUT if he alters and does say 30g aminos one day and 60 the next thats 30g of protein or 120 kcals. So there could be a varaince or something to account for weightloss when weightloss does stall

    But again CONSISTENCY

    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Veggies are part of your macro's and whole food hence why they list calories on their labels.
    Its not a study that a food has calories, that is why they label it.

    They key factor is consistency.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post

    Sure it may not pinpoint or hinder weightloss, but if your going to alter amounts and not use the same amount everyday there is a variance in kcals. (which may make a difference in weightloss)



    But in the end to each their own.

    ^^^ If it is the same everyday then the kcals will be the same due to same veggies and same aminos. Which i have been trying to point out
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Hence the bold = Consistency

    If he drinnks 60g of aminos and eats 6 cups of veggies everyday it will still be in there even if he tracks or does not track, BUT if he alters and does say 30g aminos one day and 60 the next thats 30g of protein or 120 kcals. So there could be a varaince or something to account for weightloss when weightloss does stall

    But again CONSISTENCY






    ^^^ If it is the same everyday then the kcals will be the same due to same veggies and same aminos. Which i have been trying to point out
    I think everyone is getting those points, but maybe the wording that they are using to respond is too vague. I was really just trying to re-word to bring the ideas together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by classic34 View Post

    I think everyone is getting those points, but maybe the wording that they are using to respond is too vague. I was really just trying to re-word to bring the ideas together.
    Some days are more then others. Days I fast for 24 hours. Usually after a cheat I get mee aminos and less overall cals

    Dys I train I get less aminos and more food. It evens out

    I give myself leeway.

    I do the same for all my clients with about 200 cals to spare
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    Quote Originally Posted by classic34 View Post
    On the amino/veggie debate what I'm seeing here is two people saying the same thing with different words yet still disagreeing. Allow me to put it all together here... yes, these things have calories, macronutrients, and physiological effects. Now, when it comes to say putting foods into fitday or whatever it is you use, some may choose not to actually record them. That's ok as long as you are AWARE of their existence and consider what might be too much/too little, what types, timing, etc.

    Say someone consistently takes in 10 g of BCAAs on lifting days as well as 150 kcal/day in green vegetables. They strategically placed those things where they are and are aware of the calorie and macronutrient content, but to make things easy when running rough macro calculations they leave them out. I see nothing wrong here, because when that person works out 200 g protein for a day, they KNOW that it is actually 210 g plus whatever amount is in their vegetables.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Veggies are part of your macro's and whole food hence why they list calories on their labels.
    Its not a study that a food has calories, that is why they label it.

    They key factor is consistency.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Its still calories you have to account for, since you dont use 60g of aminos everyday the caloric load will shift (correct?)
    same with veggies and those you dont count, If you dont eat the same amount and remain consistent then its not really accurate (again not sure if you eat the same, but yesterday you had 4 can of pumpkin which i am sure is not an everyday feat)

    Just trying to show you that...

    Sure it may not pinpoint or hinder weightloss, but if your going to alter amounts and not use the same amount everyday there is a variance in kcals. (which may make a difference in weightloss)

    So if you actually did add up the greens/bcaa's etc you would get a better understanding of how many kcals you are truly intaking and what you are burning etc.

    I bet when you shift to a bulking phase you wont use as many aminos etc due to the caloric surplus of calories (just taking a stab here) and will eat less veggies due to a higher caloric allowance to fit in other food sources.

    Again just showing you even though the FDA May not label them, BCAA's are still free forms of PROTEIN and still have caloric value (1g = 1g of protein aka 4 calories) so yes insulin will be spiked, just like if you ate 10g of protein same with rise in blood glucose levels from constant aminos being pushed into your body, its not whole foods, but still has the impact on the body compared to being 100% Fasted.

    But in the end to each their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by classic34 View Post
    I think everyone is getting those points, but maybe the wording that they are using to respond is too vague. I was really just trying to re-word to bring the ideas together.
    I agree

    but lets look at the big picture here

    Use 30g of aminos 3 days and 60g 4 days a week

    thats 90g of aminos un accounted for at the end of the 7 week period if he is not consistent with using 60g daily (just a number here for a baseline) that is 90g or 90g of protein un accounted for that is usually taken so there will be a difference in total kcals (360 kcals)

    same with veggies

    Broccoli is around 3g protein and 4g carbs per 1 cup (85g) if one day he eats 6 cups and one day 3 cups, that would be another 75kcal difference at the end of the day or 225 kcals over the span of 3 days that could add up or make a difference.

    Combine the BCAA + Carbs in veggies that is almost 500 calories not accounted for, that could make a difference in a weekly deficit for weightloss or fatloss.

    Thats what i am trying to bring up.
    Other than that. Everyone has their own personal preference, if they dont want to cound, then rock it out. adjusting the other factors may aid them towards their goal on top of their diet and training
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post

    Aminos are free forms of protein, they do spike insulin and cause a rise in blood glucose. Protein alone spikes inuslin levels:

    Shown here in Graph:

    http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/u...-Tech-2008.pdf
    http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/prote..._frequency.pdf
    http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/nutrition...ne-norton.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post

    Yes, pretty good too, but short lived
    So then how is "fasting" with bcaa. To me, fasting means nothing but water, not even sugar free gym lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    Generally about 55-65g of fat a day. I lower my fat as much as possible on refeeds. Generally I have one meal that has all my fat in it then another then has little to none Apparently this refeed was not low fat as I planned but definitely needed
    thats a lotta freaking sushi!! looks good tho i love japanese food
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    I agree with what the solution has said. I think this is your best bet actually. It makes the most sense. He knows his way around this type of stuff I would trust his judgment. Good luck to you with your training and keep up the ego good work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    I agree

    but lets look at the big picture here

    Use 30g of aminos 3 days and 60g 4 days a week

    thats 90g of aminos un accounted for at the end of the 7 week period if he is not consistent with using 60g daily (just a number here for a baseline) that is 90g or 90g of protein un accounted for that is usually taken so there will be a difference in total kcals (360 kcals)

    same with veggies

    Broccoli is around 3g protein and 4g carbs per 1 cup (85g) if one day he eats 6 cups and one day 3 cups, that would be another 75kcal difference at the end of the day or 225 kcals over the span of 3 days that could add up or make a difference.

    Combine the BCAA + Carbs in veggies that is almost 500 calories not accounted for, that could make a difference in a weekly deficit for weightloss or fatloss.

    Thats what i am trying to bring up.
    Other than that. Everyone has their own personal preference, if they dont want to cound, then rock it out. adjusting the other factors may aid them towards their goal on top of their diet and training
    Isn't it accounted for if it is accounted for in your head? Really, who is going to drink some BCAAs then completely forget about it? All things are accounted for in the end, but perhaps not written down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by classic34 View Post
    Isn't it accounted for if it is accounted for in your head? Really, who is going to drink some BCAAs then completely forget about it? All things are accounted for in the end, but perhaps not written down.

    I never said anyone would forget about anything. I was simply showing you what can happen if you deviate bcaa's and veggies on a day to day basis. There can be a lot of calories lost or a lot of extra calories consumer that he may not count (Since he does not count veggies or bCAA's) so if you add them up over the span of the 7 day week you may see a total of 500 or so calories that could be the deciding factor in weightloss for the week. So if the individual did count these (but again that is personal preference) he may not need to switch much because 100 or 200 calories in a week could be what is needed to get the weightloss to continue.

    Just from my outlook, but again everyone has a different one.
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    Went out to dinner last night


    Stayed true to diet just had a 14oz steak and a baked potato and a salad no dressing

    Today was just a running day

    20 min jog, 10 min walk.

    Cals still be at 2350 or so, but very little carbs <3-4% today

    Then small refeed staying with in cals tomorrow for lats and shoulder workout with 10 min hiit on the rower
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Sun Butter is an acquired taste, same with Almond Butter.

    me..

    Cookie butter FTW
    I'm convinced, going to get on that cookie butter asap.
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    Refeed!!!


    2400 cals

    Looking crazy this am. Sent to Distilled for feedback!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Cheat meal looked fab buddy! Cannot wait for noods dude. Definitely putting in work.
    I've never counted greens into my totals fwiw and have discussed this with a few coaches which is why I've never done it. Definitely not trying to start the debate back up just sayin. Consistency is key either way.
    One thing that is consistent is you are killing this log Zach good work bud keep it up
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean5er View Post
    Cheat meal looked fab buddy! Cannot wait for noods dude. Definitely putting in work.
    I've never counted greens into my totals fwiw and have discussed this with a few coaches which is why I've never done it. Definitely not trying to start the debate back up just sayin. Consistency is key either way.
    One thing that is consistent is you are killing this log Zach good work bud keep it up
    Thanks man

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    Keep up the solid work brother. You're making serious progress and yesterday's pic had you looking super lean. Look forward to hearing what you think of that body wrap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by breezy11 View Post
    Keep up the solid work brother. You're making serious progress and yesterday's pic had you looking super lean. Look forward to hearing what you think of that body wrap.
    Been talking to her all night

    If your on Instagram look at the pictures. They sold me. And I have a list of ingredients

    Maggies_bodywraps

    Here's ingredient list :

    Ingredients: Water (Aqua), Glucose, Caprylic /Capric
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    Cloth: Polypropylene / Polyethylene
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    I have a buddy who sells those wraps, but I never looked into them b/c I figured it was BS. Interested to see what you think.
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    How do you manage carb cravings at night.
    Yesterday it was 104 in Sydney, heat wise, and I didn't stray from diet BUT had carb cravings somewhat severe.

    MP and recompadrol make me hungry and I'm still at same weight with overfeeding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF_2356 View Post
    How do you manage carb cravings at night.
    Yesterday it was 104 in Sydney, heat wise, and I didn't stray from diet BUT had carb cravings somewhat severe.

    MP and recompadrol make me hungry and I'm still at same weight with overfeeding.
    I do this for the most part

    1/3 carbs in morning with. 2/3 fat and half my protein which is post workout

    Then at night rest if my carbs fat and protein

    That's how I get over the cravings. I just manipulate my diet to how my body craves foods
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    I do this for the most part 1/3 carbs in morning with. 2/3 fat and half my protein which is post workout Then at night rest if my carbs fat and protein That's how I get over the cravings. I just manipulate my diet to how my body craves foods
    What if u crave donuts 24/7? Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post

    Thanks man

    Just ordered something called a body wrap by this woman Maggie on Instagram

    It's 1 wrap every 72 hours. I can cut the wrap and place where needed. Which will be at the piriformis and lower abdominals.

    It looks promising. If I like it you guys will know!!
    Are the wraps a MLM deal?

    My sister in law does them and her results were pretty impressive. I normally don't buy into mlm before and after stuff but she has done it and so has one of my sisters. You can definitely see the difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjobe6 View Post

    Are the wraps a MLM deal?

    My sister in law does them and her results were pretty impressive. I normally don't buy into mlm before and after stuff but she has done it and so has one of my sisters. You can definitely see the difference.
    I funo what mlm deal?

    All I know is ill have it tomorrow or saturday
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post

    I funo what mlm deal?

    All I know is ill have it tomorrow or saturday
    MLM-Multi Level Marketing
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjobe6 View Post

    MLM-Multi Level Marketing
    Oh like that visalus and other ****.

    This seemed like it was up my alley after seeing ingredients and pictures. I only got 2 and you can cut the wraps so I have multiple places to put it.

    I mean fairly pricy but we will see what happens in the 6 days since I'm so lean Already
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    What are the wraps meant to do exactly? It looks like they would pull water similar to how people will put prep-h on their abs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by classic34 View Post
    What are the wraps meant to do exactly? It looks like they would pull water similar to how people will put prep-h on their abs.
    Pull water, remove toxins, remove some fat.

    So I'm excited!

    After I wear a wrap for 8 hours I'm allowed to use the topicals I have now. So that's good!

    The wraps will last 6 days 1 wrap every 72 hours

    I bought 2

    Even if it pulls water that's fine by me have a lot of water I'm holding
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    Pull water, remove toxins, remove some fat. So I'm excited! After I wear a wrap for 8 hours I'm allowed to use the topicals I have now. So that's good! The wraps will last 6 days 1 wrap every 72 hours I bought 2 Even if it pulls water that's fine by me have a lot of water I'm holding
    You'll have to get us some before/during/after noodz for this one. Looks like a pretty cool idea with some real potential
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    No nudes, will be sending them to maggies_bodywraps tho on insta so maybe she will post

    I wanna wait till 2-3 weeks out. So maybe 2 more weeks. I added more cardio. Cals the same

    Refeed with this tomorrow

    I think it comes out to 850 carbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    No nudes, will be sending them to maggies_bodywraps tho on insta so maybe she will post

    I wanna wait till 2-3 weeks out. So maybe 2 more weeks. I added more cardio. Cals the same

    Refeed with this tomorrow

    I think it comes out to 850 carbs
    All 3 boxes?? That's awesome. I wonder what would happen if I did that lol
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