Coop's Corner #4: Alpha-2 Antagonism? Yes Please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    What brand yohimbe do y'all buy? The 2% bark extract yohimbe any good?

    This stuff is good. It's much cleaner than the 2% extract stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    This stuff is good. It's much cleaner than the 2% extract stuff.
    Okay thanks I'll pick up some of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    This stuff is good. It's much cleaner than the 2% extract stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    Okay thanks I'll pick up some of that.
    It's probably one of the most popular choices for straight up yohimbine supplementation.

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    Has anyone tried Allmax's Yohimbine with rauwolscine?
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    Damm I was taking 20mg a pop of Y HCL. No wonder I wanted to break something lol.
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    Should this be taken on an empty stomach?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    Should this be taken on an empty stomach?
    Yes. Anything that contains yohimbine should be taken on an empty stomach/away from food...an insulin release from food, esp carbs, will negate its effect that we want
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    Yes. Anything that contains yohimbine should be taken on an empty stomach/away from food...an insulin release from food, esp carbs, will negate its effect that we want
    An hour before/after eating enough?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    An hour before/after eating enough?
    The longer the better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    The longer the better.
    Can it be taken at night? Only time I don't eat is in the morning lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    Can it be taken at night? Only time I don't eat is in the morning lol
    I take it you're dosing it with caffeine correct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    Can it be taken at night? Only time I don't eat is in the morning lol
    Just take first thing in the morning and skip breakfast and have a bigger than normal lunch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Just take first thing in the morning and skip breakfast and have a bigger than normal lunch.
    I need to take 6 caps (15mg). The first dose will be 7am, then 3pm (preworkout), then 10-11pm? I assume it's better to split it up rather than take all 6 at once?
    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    I take it you're dosing it with caffeine correct?
    Only in the morning and pre workout around 3pm (with Alphamine). No caffeine at night
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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    I need to take 6 caps (15mg). The first dose will be 7am, then 3pm (preworkout), then 10-11pm? I assume it's better to split it up rather than take all 6 at once? Only in the morning and pre workout around 3pm (with Alphamine). No caffeine at night
    Would all three doses be on an empty stomach?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Would all three doses be on an empty stomach?
    Morning and night dose will be for sure. I'll take it 3 hrs after dinner. If I take a dose around 3 that'll be about 2 hrs after lunch
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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    I need to take 6 caps (15mg). The first dose will be 7am, then 3pm (preworkout), then 10-11pm? I assume it's better to split it up rather than take all 6 at once? Only in the morning and pre workout around 3pm (with Alphamine). No caffeine at night
    Most actually do their full dose of yohimbine in one go. I wouldn't start off by doing this right away but as you progress then you could do that so you don't have to worry about splitting the doses up. Dosing around your workout and/or cardio would be best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Most actually do their full dose of yohimbine in one go. I wouldn't start off by doing this right away but as you progress then you could do that so you don't have to worry about splitting the doses up. Dosing around your workout and/or cardio would be best.
    This, take most at once with caffeine prior to exercise and away from carbs. You could try 10mg before your highest activity and 5-7.5mg before a secondary exercise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy View Post
    This, take most at once with caffeine prior to exercise and away from carbs. You could try 10mg before your highest activity and 5-7.5mg before a secondary exercise.
    Okay cool. I have a question. I do Intermittent fasting from 8pm to 12pm. And I workout at around 3-330pm. At 12 noon I eat 2 protein bars and a banana. Can I take 5 mg in the morning at 7-8am? Then the 10 mg pre-workout at 3pm or in the middle of my workout at 4pm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    Okay cool. I have a question. I do Intermittent fasting from 8pm to 12pm. And I workout at around 3-330pm. At 12 noon I eat 2 protein bars and a banana. Can I take 5 mg in the morning at 7-8am? Then the 10 mg pre-workout at 3pm or in the middle of my workout at 4pm?
    Yep, the morning and pre-workout doses sound good.
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    How long do you guys run the .3mg/kg approach for Y. HCL do you guys need to cycle off say 8 weeks into a high dose for y. hcl then take a 3-4 week break repeat? or no you can run it year-round.
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    would yohimbine help someone with high body fat such as my self 19% or should i keep cutting and wait.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckylefty811 View Post
    would yohimbine help someone with high body fat such as my self 19% or should i keep cutting and wait.
    I believe it would but the effect would not be as noticeable... If men at 10%bf are losing 2% after a month of yohimbine usage then someone at closer to 20%bf will probably only lose 1%bf. Hopefully Coop or someone can confirm this though?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckylefty811 View Post
    would yohimbine help someone with high body fat such as my self 19% or should i keep cutting and wait.
    Keep cutting through activity and diet. When you reach down low enough where you come close to or hit up against a wall, then introduce a fat cutting stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Keep cutting through activity and diet. When you reach down low enough where you come close to or hit up against a wall, then introduce a fat cutting stack.
    This. At 19% BF, you can lose quite a bit of that through diet and exercise alone.
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    Took all 15 mg this morning preworkout along with my alphamine. Felt fine. I'm at 8% bf at the moment. Hopefully I can get down to 5% in a month on this stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckylefty811 View Post
    would yohimbine help someone with high body fat such as my self 19% or should i keep cutting and wait.
    From what I understand the Yohimbine may help with areas that have a higher concentration of A2 receptors which tend to be the areas that lose fat last. It's better to focus on what can be lost without the inhibitors, then use it when needed. You probably wouldn't notice much if any increase in fat lost at your bf%.
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    What other things do most add with Y. HCL to make it more effective I would imagine: 1. Erase Pro 2. Forskoliin95%, 3. ECA anything else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sina View Post
    What other things do most add with Y. HCL to make it more effective I would imagine: 1. Erase Pro 2. Forskoliin95%, 3. ECA anything else.
    I usually see guys mention ECA with Y, then someone else mentions to be very careful with this combination. So.. be careful if you run those together.

    For me running ALCAR with stims seems to help with focus and jitters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sina View Post
    What other things do most add with Y. HCL to make it more effective I would imagine: 1. Erase Pro 2. Forskoliin95%, 3. ECA anything else.
    From Coop's OP:

    "Alpha-2 antagonists synergize with anything that potentiates catecholamine release. This means caffeine, exercise, forskolin, and beta-agonists all work exceptionally well with alpha-2 antagonists."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    Took all 15 mg this morning preworkout along with my alphamine. Felt fine. I'm at 8% bf at the moment. Hopefully I can get down to 5% in a month on this stuff
    Be careful with that. 15mg of Y.HCL along with the SA2-A (yohimbine extract). I am sure you know that already though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeyjd View Post
    I usually see guys mention ECA with Y, then someone else mentions to be very careful with this combination. So.. be careful if you run those together. For me running ALCAR with stims seems to help with focus and jitters.
    I've been doing YC first thing in the morning and then eca 4 hours later and have been fine. I wouldn't take them together but 4 to 5 hours apart should be fine to let the yohimbine die down. Also taking Forskolin 95 which not only helps with the fat burning but lowering blood pressure as well. Yeah the alcar is great too with it.
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    Kudos for the "thinking man's" info

    I like this approach/idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhfarris View Post
    Also taking Forskolin 95 which not only helps with the fat burning but lowering blood pressure as well. Yeah the alcar is great too with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhfarris View Post
    I've been doing YC first thing in the morning and then eca 4 hours later and have been fine. I wouldn't take them together but 4 to 5 hours apart should be fine to let the yohimbine die down. Also taking Forskolin 95 which not only helps with the fat burning but lowering blood pressure as well. Yeah the alcar is great too with it.
    Add some artichoke to that and you will be gtg! :P

    I've never tried that by the way, just heard of artichoke extract + forskolin ='s brain blown. The amount of forskolin we use for fat burning and ergogenic benefits however could be way too much to use in such a combo though :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Add some artichoke to that and you will be gtg! :P I've never tried that by the way, just heard of artichoke extract + forskolin ='s brain blown. The amount of forskolin we use for fat burning and ergogenic benefits however could be way too much to use in such a combo though :P
    I've never used artichoke and I hope the forskolin isn't too much cause I'm running 100mg for 12 weeks up until show time. I've ran it before and seemed fine though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhfarris View Post
    I've never used artichoke and I hope the forskolin isn't too much cause I'm running 100mg for 12 weeks up until show time. I've ran it before and seemed fine though.
    Supposedly artichoke extract + forskolin makes your mind focus razor sharp. Supposedly, I never tried it myself :P Was just kidding around more than anything else (but artichoke is a PDE4 inhibitor as well as some other PDEs, so theoretically this makes sense as it would synergize with the forskolin's cAMP promoting qualities, and PDE4 inhibition would be pro-cognitive).
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    Kissadookie: You have me interested in this artichoke

    Can anyone else provide some anecdotal or empirical insight for this stuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Supposedly artichoke extract + forskolin makes your mind focus razor sharp. Supposedly, I never tried it myself :P Was just kidding around more than anything else (but artichoke is a PDE4 inhibitor as well as some other PDEs, so theoretically this makes sense as it would synergize with the forskolin's cAMP promoting qualities, and PDE4 inhibition would be pro-cognitive).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Kissadookie: You have me interested in this artichoke Can anyone else provide some anecdotal or empirical insight for this stuff?
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...st4137449.html

    I use AS F95 and from time to time add a PDE4 inhibitor. I haven't tried artichoke extract yet, but have used a Resveratrol. It's hard saying how much of the Resv. is actually acting as a PDE4-i.

    I'd say it helps a bit (for me) with concepts while I'm studying. But it's not making me have a "beautiful mind" all of the sudden.

    Coop touches on it in the link above... There might be better options that I need to explore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteCedillo View Post
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...st4137449.html

    I use AS F95 and from time to time add a PDE4 inhibitor. I haven't tried artichoke extract yet, but have used a Resveratrol. It's hard saying how much of the Resv. is actually acting as a PDE4-i.

    I'd say it helps a bit (for me) with concepts while I'm studying. But it's not making me have a "beautiful mind" all of the sudden.

    Coop touches on it in the link above... There might be better options that I need to explore.
    Artichoke extract is apparently a pretty good PDE4 inhibitor(for the purpose of what is currently called a CILTEP stack) but there is also Zembrin which is Kanna extract, that one is supposedly very strong for a natural PDE4 inhibitor.

    For ref: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic...y-induced-ltp/
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Supposedly artichoke extract + forskolin makes your mind focus razor sharp. Supposedly, I never tried it myself :P Was just kidding around more than anything else (but artichoke is a PDE4 inhibitor as well as some other PDEs, so theoretically this makes sense as it would synergize with the forskolin's cAMP promoting qualities, and PDE4 inhibition would be pro-cognitive).
    Artichoke extract is something of a joke for that purpose compared to Lodhra in ABE, which is incidentally why they are in the same formula
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Artichoke extract is something of a joke for that purpose compared to Lodhra in ABE, which is incidentally why they are in the same formula
    From some guy named Coop (lol)...,


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Lodhra Bark Extract Aka Symplocos Racemosa Extract Phosphodiesterase (PDE) Inhibition PDE inhibitors are used clinically for erectile dysfunction (PDE5i like Viagra), weight loss, and bronchodilation/asthma treatment. Symplocos Racemosa is one of nature's most well-documented phosphodiesterase inhibitors. Phosphodiesterase is the enzyme responsible for breaking down cyclic-AMP (cAMP). cAMP is a second messenger that has beneficial effects like improved fat loss, increased muscle mass, improved thyroid function, and improved steroidogenesis. Indeed, the very reason forskolin works is because it increases levels of cAMP in the body by increasing levels of the enzyme that creates cyclic AMP. A simplified model: Enzyme A -> cAMP pool of the body -> Enzyme B Enzyme A is creating more cAMP for the aforementioned benefits. This is the enzyme that forskolin increases, resulting in the well-documented effects on human body composition. Enzyme B is breaking down cAMP and working against enzyme A. Enzyme B is known as phosphodiesterase (PDE). Symplocos racemosa contains PDE inhibitors, so levels of Enzyme B decrease and levels of cAMP increase. The net result is increased levels of cAMP. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15643556 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...nticated=false http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/12...VmR5GtJexNnE.4 The specific PDE they tested against in these studies was PDE1, but this does not mean that Lodhra bark is not active against other PDE isoforms. PDE1 inhibition is a mechanism shared by selegiline (Deprenyl), but its main documented role is enhanced pulmonary function, improved energy levels, and increased vasodilation in response to nitric oxide (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2650605/). Hormonal Effects Aside from increasing cAMP which increases steroidogenesis, Lodhra also increases LH/FSH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15261983) and was effective in treating a murine model analogous to secondary infertility. In males, LH is known to stimulate testosterone production while FSH nourishes developing sperm. Complementary Effects with Arachidonic Acid (ArA) ArA has three primary metabolites: prostaglandins (associated with muscle accretion and vasodilation), thromboxanes (associated with blood clotting; inhibited by carnitines or aspirin), and leukotrienes (associated with constriction of smooth muscle, such as bronchoconstriction). The latter two effects are typically considered unfavorable. Lodhra Bark is a lipoxygenase inhibitor, preventing the conversion of ArA to leukotrienes. This leaves more ArA available to be converted to prostaglandins or thromboxanes, the latter of which can be inhibited by methods stated above. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15938197
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