How much vitamin C is too much?

[horizons]

What doses are people taking and if not, then why? Is extra vitamin C from supplements necessary for body builders?

United States vitamin C recommendations

Recommended Dietary Allowance (adult male)90 mg per day
Recommended Dietary Allowance (adult female)75 mg per day
Tolerable Upper Intake Level (adult male)2,000 mg per day
Tolerable Upper Intake Level (adult female)2,000 mg per day

A lot of vitamins nowadays have 1000mg in them but is that necessary to add into someone's diet? There are a lot of health benefits as well

 

[Bryancap77]

In for answers. I take it in the morning if I drank the night before, does wonders for a hangover for me.

 

[horizons]

In for answers. I take it in the morning if I drank the night before, does wonders for a hangover for me.

Yeah I just added 1000mg a day too

Haven't tried that though!

 

[mr.cooper69]

Any effect vitamin C has on hangovers is likely placebo honestly. I don't see much merit in supplementing vitamin C unless using nitrates or warding off illness (Ester-C)

 

[criticalbench]

When i take a ton.. i Pee a ton!

 

[horizons]

Any effect vitamin C has on hangovers is likely placebo honestly. I don't see much merit in supplementing vitamin C unless using nitrates or warding off illness (Ester-C)

Good point. I know a few people that dose it high as 2000mg ED

A bit of a overkill

 

[Jiigzz]

Plasma saturation occurs at 500mg so any more than this at any one time will be excreted. I'm not too sure why you would go much above this to be honest.

 

[Quadzilla99]

Plasma saturation occurs at 500mg so any more than this at any one time will be excreted. I'm not too sure why you would go much above this to be honest.

That's wrong the percentage utilized decreases as you increase the dose but there is no 500 mg limit.

 

[horizons]

That's wrong the percentage utilized decreases as you increase the dose but there is no 500 mg limit.

Interesting

 

[BBB]

Check out this link:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminC/index.html

 

[Bryancap77]

Check out this link:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminC/index.html

Interesting read. Kind of supports the reason I use it. Maybe that's why I'm rarely ever sick?

 

[BBB]

Interesting read. Kind of supports the reason I use it. Maybe that's why I'm rarely ever sick?

Don't forget the D3 and Fish Oil.

 

[Bryancap77]

Don't forget the D3 and Fish Oil.

Fish oil twice a day, about 1800mg's omega 3's, does wonders for my joints!

 

[aaronuconn]

I don't really see the need to supplement with Vit. C in the first place.

 

[eros62d]

I take 500mgs EsterC 3-4 times throughout the day usually with meals or with my pre-workout drink. Spacing my doses out helps works better for me,no issues with diarrea that way I think it helps with my immune system,cortisol control and with all the nitrates I consume.

 

[Jiigzz]

That's wrong the percentage utilized decreases as you increase the dose but there is no 500 mg limit.

I stand corrected. However supplementing with over 1000mg will increase half-life to 30 minutes compared to normal dietary intakes which may last 8-40 days.

 

[Clemenza]

I use Ascorbic Acid crystals and bump it up to 8g a day when I feel a cold or virus coming on and 9 out of 10 times it stops it dead in its tracks. Then I slowly scale it down to 1 to 2g daily maintenance.

Host of benefits. If I recall its also a potent NOS inhibitor.

 

[horizons]

Very interesting info!

I think maybe vitamin C is starting to show more benefits

 

[aaronuconn]

I use Ascorbic Acid crystals and bump it up to 8g a day when I feel a cold or virus coming on and 9 out of 10 times it stops it dead in its tracks. Then I slowly scale it down to 1 to 2g daily maintenance.Host of benefits. If I recall its also a potent NOS inhibitor.

You're not concerned with Vit. C becoming pro-oxidant at that point?

 

[kaikara]

I take about 3000mg spread evenly throughout the day. I've read that somewhere around 8000mg and you start getting the squirts.

I haven't been sick in years.

 

[Quadzilla99]

Fwiw NO HYPE is/was a fan of mega dosing vitamin C for glutathione enhancing reasons

 

[horizons]

Fwiw NO HYPE is/was a fan of mega dosing vitamin C for glutathione enhancing reasons

I've heard it's excellent for eye health

 

[Clemenza]

You're not concerned with Vit. C becoming pro-oxidant at that point?

I am. But I guess you can make the argument that too much of many anti oxidants can promote pro oxidant activities. Like ALCAR. But how much is too much? At what dose does an anti oxidant become a dangerous pro oxidant?

Theres a study that showed the potential for ascorbic acid to exhibit pro oxidant / cytotoxic activity in tumors but not in normal cells.

With all the environmental toxicities out there I'd rather take my chances with extra anti oxidants. Unless I find overwhelming exidence of a specific dose of an anti oxidant to be dangerous.

You do bring up a good point though.

 

[Quadzilla99]

I am. But I guess you can make the argument that too much of many anti oxidants can promote pro oxidant activities. Like ALCAR. But how much is too much? At what dose does an anti oxidant become a dangerous pro oxidant?

Theres a study that showed the potential for ascorbic acid to exhibit pro oxidant / cytotoxic activity in tumors but not in normal cells.

With all the environmental toxicities out there I'd rather take my chances with extra anti oxidants. Unless I find overwhelming exidence of a specific dose of an anti oxidant to be dangerous.

You do bring up a good point though.

You should dose anything more than 500 mg well away from workouts though. Like maybe take your biggest doses upon waking or before going to bed

 

[aaronuconn]

You should dose anything more than 500 mg well away from workouts though. Like maybe take your biggest doses upon waking or before going to bed

Agreed. Anything with COX-2 inhibiting properties (anti-inflammatories typically fall in this category) should be dosed ~4 hours peri-workout.

 

[Clemenza]

You should dose anything more than 500 mg well away from workouts though. Like maybe take your biggest doses upon waking or before going to bed

Of vitamin c? How come? I usually try and do 500mg pre workout. 1g breakfast. 500mg before bed.

 

[horizons]

http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/58/1/103.abstract

Glutathione effects

 

[Quadzilla99]

Of vitamin c? How come? I usually try and do 500mg pre workout. 1g breakfast. 500mg before bed.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4356443&page=1

 

[Jiigzz]

I use Ascorbic Acid crystals and bump it up to 8g a day when I feel a cold or virus coming on and 9 out of 10 times it stops it dead in its tracks. Then I slowly scale it down to 1 to 2g daily maintenance.

Host of benefits. If I recall its also a potent NOS inhibitor.

No real evidence to suggest mega-dosing actually works beyond that of placebo, although it isn't well researched so who knows; but at those dosages, the half life would be incredible low.

Edit: It seems as though the ascorbyl radical itself (technically a prooxidant) is not overly potent due to the position of the free radical group

I think many people get carried away with Vit C supplementation and assume that because it is so good at lower dosages; it must be better at higher dosages.

Vit C also doesn't preserve eNO2 per se, that is a function of any antioxidant; not just that of Vit C.

 

[Clemenza]

No real evidence to suggest mega-dosing actually works beyond that of placebo, although it isn't well researched so who knows; but at those dosages, the half life would be incredible low.

Edit: It seems as though the ascorbyl radical itself (technically a prooxidant) is not overly potent due to the position of the free radical group

I think many people get carried away with Vit C supplementation and assume that because it is so good at lower dosages; it must be better at higher dosages.

Vit C also doesn't preserve eNO2 per se, that is a function of any antioxidant; not just that of Vit C.

Low half life which is why when mega dosing its recommended to divide over 4 to 8 doses a day. Even during maintenance I don't take over 500mg at a time.

There is a ton of evidence showing vitamin c to be anti bacterial, anti viral, promoting immune function, even necessary in the development of t cells.

I don't know how anyone can say immune benefits from vitamin c are placebo.

 

[Clemenza]

No real evidence to suggest mega-dosing actually works beyond that of placebo, although it isn't well researched so who knows; but at those dosages, the half life would be incredible low.

Edit: It seems as though the ascorbyl radical itself (technically a prooxidant) is not overly potent due to the position of the free radical group

I think many people get carried away with Vit C supplementation and assume that because it is so good at lower dosages; it must be better at higher dosages.

Vit C also doesn't preserve eNO2 per se, that is a function of any antioxidant; not just that of Vit C.

I believe there is s mouse study showing mega dosing vitamin c to be anti tumor. Another study showing mega dosing to be relatively safe. I haven't seen any studies showing mega dosing c to be of zero benefit so maybe its still up in the air.

I'm a big follower of Linus Pauling who I believe was way ahead of his time.

Anecdotally I can say when I feel a cold coming on while maintaining at 1g a day and I bump up to 4 to 8g, that cold is gone almost immediately every time.

 

[Jiigzz]

Low half life which is why when mega dosing its recommended to divide over 4 to 8 doses a day. Even during maintenance I don't take over 500mg at a time.

There is a ton of evidence showing vitamin c to be anti bacterial, anti viral, promoting immune function, even necessary in the development of t cells.

I don't know how anyone can say immune benefits from vitamin c are placebo.

I didn't say they were placebo, what I meant was that there is very limited evidence that superdosing vit C will yield any further benefits than 200mg-500mg-1000mg or whatever the recommendation is. Those benefits occur at the daily recommended dose regardless, that doesn't mean the effects are enhanced the more you take. Or are they? lol

 

[Jiigzz]

I believe there is s mouse study showing mega dosing vitamin c to be anti tumor. Another study showing mega dosing to be relatively safe. I haven't seen any studies showing mega dosing c to be of zero benefit so maybe its still up in the air.

I'm a big follower of Linus Pauling who I believe was way ahead of his time.

Anecdotally I can say when I feel a cold coming on while maintaining at 1g a day and I bump up to 4 to 8g, that cold is gone almost immediately every time.

Ann Intern Med. 2004 Apr 6;140(7):533-7.
Vitamin C pharmacokinetics: implications for oral and intravenous use.
Padayatty SJ, Sun H, Wang Y, Riordan HD, Hewitt SM, Katz A, Wesley RA, Levine M.
Source

National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, the National Cancer Institut, and the Clinical Center, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892-1372, USA.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Vitamin C at high concentrations is toxic to cancer cells in vitro. Early clinical studies of vitamin C in patients with terminal cancer suggested clinical benefit, but 2 double-blind, placebo-controlled trials showed none. However, these studies used different routes of administration.
OBJECTIVE:

To determine whether plasma vitamin C concentrations vary substantially with the route of administration.
DESIGN:

Dose concentration studies and pharmacokinetic modeling.
SETTING:

Academic medical center.
PARTICIPANTS:

17 healthy hospitalized volunteers.
MEASUREMENTS:

Vitamin C plasma and urine concentrations were measured after administration of oral and intravenous doses at a dose range of 0.015 to 1.25 g, and plasma concentrations were calculated for a dose range of 1 to 100 g.
RESULTS:

Peak plasma vitamin C concentrations were higher after administration of intravenous doses than after administration of oral doses (P < 0.001), and the difference increased according to dose. Vitamin C at a dose of 1.25 g administered orally produced mean (+/-sd) peak plasma concentrations of 134.8 +/- 20.6 micromol/L compared with 885 +/- 201.2 micromol/L for intravenous administration. For the maximum tolerated oral dose of 3 g every 4 hours, pharmacokinetic modeling predicted peak plasma vitamin C concentrations of 220 micromol/L and 13 400 micromol/L for a 50-g intravenous dose. Peak predicted urine concentrations of vitamin C from intravenous administration were 140-fold higher than those from maximum oral doses.
LIMITATIONS:

Patient data are not available to confirm pharmacokinetic modeling at high doses and in patients with cancer.
CONCLUSIONS:

Oral vitamin C produces plasma concentrations that are tightly controlled. Only intravenous administration of vitamin C produces high plasma and urine concentrations that might have antitumor activity. Because efficacy of vitamin C treatment cannot be judged from clinical trials that use only oral dosing, the role of vitamin C in cancer treatment should be reevaluated.

This study?

I guess it wouldn't matter much anyway, high dosages yield low half-lives and those doses being spaced out (i.e. 500mg-1000mg at any one time) doesn't appear damaging. But I don't know much else about Vit C lol

 

[Bryancap77]

I didn't say they were placebo, what I meant was that there is very limited evidence that superdosing vit C will yield any further benefits than 200mg-500mg. Those benefits occur at the daily recommended dose regardless, that doesn't mean the effects are enhanced the more you take.

Coop said it was placebo, at least my vit c as hangover cure haha

 

[Clemenza]

Ann Intern Med. 2004 Apr 6;140(7):533-7.
Vitamin C pharmacokinetics: implications for oral and intravenous use.
Padayatty SJ, Sun H, Wang Y, Riordan HD, Hewitt SM, Katz A, Wesley RA, Levine M.
Source

National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, the National Cancer Institut, and the Clinical Center, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892-1372, USA.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Vitamin C at high concentrations is toxic to cancer cells in vitro. Early clinical studies of vitamin C in patients with terminal cancer suggested clinical benefit, but 2 double-blind, placebo-controlled trials showed none. However, these studies used different routes of administration.
OBJECTIVE:

To determine whether plasma vitamin C concentrations vary substantially with the route of administration.
DESIGN:

Dose concentration studies and pharmacokinetic modeling.
SETTING:

Academic medical center.
PARTICIPANTS:

17 healthy hospitalized volunteers.
MEASUREMENTS:

Vitamin C plasma and urine concentrations were measured after administration of oral and intravenous doses at a dose range of 0.015 to 1.25 g, and plasma concentrations were calculated for a dose range of 1 to 100 g.
RESULTS:

Peak plasma vitamin C concentrations were higher after administration of intravenous doses than after administration of oral doses (P < 0.001), and the difference increased according to dose. Vitamin C at a dose of 1.25 g administered orally produced mean (+/-sd) peak plasma concentrations of 134.8 +/- 20.6 micromol/L compared with 885 +/- 201.2 micromol/L for intravenous administration. For the maximum tolerated oral dose of 3 g every 4 hours, pharmacokinetic modeling predicted peak plasma vitamin C concentrations of 220 micromol/L and 13 400 micromol/L for a 50-g intravenous dose. Peak predicted urine concentrations of vitamin C from intravenous administration were 140-fold higher than those from maximum oral doses.
LIMITATIONS:

Patient data are not available to confirm pharmacokinetic modeling at high doses and in patients with cancer.
CONCLUSIONS:

Oral vitamin C produces plasma concentrations that are tightly controlled. Only intravenous administration of vitamin C produces high plasma and urine concentrations that might have antitumor activity. Because efficacy of vitamin C treatment cannot be judged from clinical trials that use only oral dosing, the role of vitamin C in cancer treatment should be reevaluated.

This study?

I guess it wouldn't matter much anyway, high dosages yield low half-lives and those doses being spaced out (i.e. 500mg-1000mg at any one time) doesn't appear damaging. But I don't know much else about Vit C lol

Doesnt intravenous administration of just about everything lead to higher plasma concentrations compared to oral?

Good study. It's basically confirming why I said even when megadosing its necessary to space out dosing.

I'm not sure if this study is the be all end all in proving oral dosing of C is not anti tumor. Especially when previous studies believed it was. It does prove higher oral dosing leads to slightly higher plasma concentrations which may fight influenza and other viruses, no?

 

[Clemenza]

But I do see your point well taken in the study in that jumping from 1g to 3g oral dose does not raise plasma levels a ton especially when you look at plasma levels of intravenous admin.

I would like to see more studies done on this though.

 

[horizons]

But I do see your point well taken in the study in that jumping from 1g to 3g oral dose does not raise plasma levels a ton especially when you look at plasma levels of intravenous admin.

I would like to see more studies done on this though.

I would too

 

[mr.cooper69]

You shouldn't be megadosing any antioxidant, that's a rule that applies to vitamin C too.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Doesnt intravenous administration of just about everything lead to higher plasma concentrations compared to oral?

Bioavailability is the % of ingested material that ends up in the bloodstream. So IV is 100% bioavailability...oral will always be equal or lower.

 

[horizons]

You shouldn't be megadosing any antioxidant, that's a rule that applies to vitamin C too.

I have green tea & vitamin E (tocotrienols) ED already so I tend to agree with you there

Too much of a good thing

 

[Clemenza]

You shouldn't be megadosing any antioxidant, that's a rule that applies to vitamin C too.

I never said to megadose on a regular basis.

I have found that bumping the dose up from 1g to 6-8g for anti viral / immune boosting purposes for 1 to 3 days seems beneficial and rather side effect free.

 

[Clemenza]

Bioavailability is the % of ingested material that ends up in the bloodstream. So IV is 100% bioavailability...oral will always be equal or lower.

It was a rhetorical question lol.

 

[Lutztenways]

It's funny, I hear to avoid Vitamin C peri-workout because the antioxidant action could blunt the hypertrophy response.

What if I mega dose Vitamin C post workout, so it goes pro-oxidant and supercharges hypertrophy?

Keanu Reeves meme

 

[mr.cooper69]

I'm making general statements clem lol, a lot of people actually don't know that

 

[horizons]

So even supplementing with 250mg of vitamin C ED could be too much

 

[chedapalooza]

Interested in finding the best dose to help with reducing chronic inflammation. Sounds like 500mg am, 500mg post workout, 500mg after that?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Interested in finding the best dose to help with reducing chronic inflammation. Sounds like 500mg am, 500mg post workout, 500mg after that?

Ched, come on dude, you gotta at least read page 1/2 of the thread

But no, vitamin C won't aid with chronic inflammation in the sense you want it to, unless you have endothelial dysfunction

 

[chedapalooza]

Ched, come on dude, you gotta at least read page 1/2 of the thread

But no, vitamin C won't aid with chronic inflammation in the sense you want it to, unless you have endothelial dysfunction

I actually read the whole damn thing!! I swear

 

[chedapalooza]

Been doing 500mg upon rising, 1000mg post workout, and 500mg with last meal of day for two months now...

I read in amino iv write up that anti oxidants can actually reduce adaptations to weight training..
So does my C Intake fall into this category?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Been doing 500mg upon rising, 1000mg post workout, and 500mg with last meal of day for two months now...

I read in amino iv write up that anti oxidants can actually reduce adaptations to weight training..
So does my C Intake fall into this category?

Ched...I won't answer any more Qs until you prove to me that you've put some effort in on your end. This thread, that you just bumped, has all the answers in it. No, you should not be doing 1000mg postworkout, ever.