How much vitamin C is too much?

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    How much vitamin C is too much?


    What doses are people taking and if not, then why? Is extra vitamin C from supplements necessary for body builders?

    United States vitamin C recommendations

    Recommended Dietary Allowance (adult male)90 mg per day
    Recommended Dietary Allowance (adult female)75 mg per day
    Tolerable Upper Intake Level (adult male)2,000 mg per day
    Tolerable Upper Intake Level (adult female)2,000 mg per day

    A lot of vitamins nowadays have 1000mg in them but is that necessary to add into someone's diet? There are a lot of health benefits as well

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    In for answers. I take it in the morning if I drank the night before, does wonders for a hangover for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryancap77 View Post
    In for answers. I take it in the morning if I drank the night before, does wonders for a hangover for me.
    Yeah I just added 1000mg a day too

    Haven't tried that though!
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    Any effect vitamin C has on hangovers is likely placebo honestly. I don't see much merit in supplementing vitamin C unless using nitrates or warding off illness (Ester-C)
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Any effect vitamin C has on hangovers is likely placebo honestly. I don't see much merit in supplementing vitamin C unless using nitrates or warding off illness (Ester-C)
    Good point. I know a few people that dose it high as 2000mg ED

    A bit of a overkill
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    Plasma saturation occurs at 500mg so any more than this at any one time will be excreted. I'm not too sure why you would go much above this to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Plasma saturation occurs at 500mg so any more than this at any one time will be excreted. I'm not too sure why you would go much above this to be honest.
    That's wrong the percentage utilized decreases as you increase the dose but there is no 500 mg limit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post
    That's wrong the percentage utilized decreases as you increase the dose but there is no 500 mg limit.
    Interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    Interesting read. Kind of supports the reason I use it. Maybe that's why I'm rarely ever sick?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryancap77 View Post
    Interesting read. Kind of supports the reason I use it. Maybe that's why I'm rarely ever sick?
    Don't forget the D3 and Fish Oil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post

    Don't forget the D3 and Fish Oil.
    Fish oil twice a day, about 1800mg's omega 3's, does wonders for my joints!
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    I don't really see the need to supplement with Vit. C in the first place.

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    I take 500mgs EsterC 3-4 times throughout the day usually with meals or with my pre-workout drink. Spacing my doses out helps works better for me,no issues with diarrea that way I think it helps with my immune system,cortisol control and with all the nitrates I consume.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post
    That's wrong the percentage utilized decreases as you increase the dose but there is no 500 mg limit.
    I stand corrected. However supplementing with over 1000mg will increase half-life to 30 minutes compared to normal dietary intakes which may last 8-40 days.
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    I use Ascorbic Acid crystals and bump it up to 8g a day when I feel a cold or virus coming on and 9 out of 10 times it stops it dead in its tracks. Then I slowly scale it down to 1 to 2g daily maintenance.

    Host of benefits. If I recall its also a potent NOS inhibitor.
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    Very interesting info!

    I think maybe vitamin C is starting to show more benefits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    I use Ascorbic Acid crystals and bump it up to 8g a day when I feel a cold or virus coming on and 9 out of 10 times it stops it dead in its tracks. Then I slowly scale it down to 1 to 2g daily maintenance.Host of benefits. If I recall its also a potent NOS inhibitor.
    You're not concerned with Vit. C becoming pro-oxidant at that point?

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    I take about 3000mg spread evenly throughout the day. I've read that somewhere around 8000mg and you start getting the squirts.

    I haven't been sick in years.
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    Fwiw NO HYPE is/was a fan of mega dosing vitamin C for glutathione enhancing reasons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post
    Fwiw NO HYPE is/was a fan of mega dosing vitamin C for glutathione enhancing reasons
    I've heard it's excellent for eye health
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    You're not concerned with Vit. C becoming pro-oxidant at that point?
    I am. But I guess you can make the argument that too much of many anti oxidants can promote pro oxidant activities. Like ALCAR. But how much is too much? At what dose does an anti oxidant become a dangerous pro oxidant?

    Theres a study that showed the potential for ascorbic acid to exhibit pro oxidant / cytotoxic activity in tumors but not in normal cells.

    With all the environmental toxicities out there I'd rather take my chances with extra anti oxidants. Unless I find overwhelming exidence of a specific dose of an anti oxidant to be dangerous.

    You do bring up a good point though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    I am. But I guess you can make the argument that too much of many anti oxidants can promote pro oxidant activities. Like ALCAR. But how much is too much? At what dose does an anti oxidant become a dangerous pro oxidant?

    Theres a study that showed the potential for ascorbic acid to exhibit pro oxidant / cytotoxic activity in tumors but not in normal cells.

    With all the environmental toxicities out there I'd rather take my chances with extra anti oxidants. Unless I find overwhelming exidence of a specific dose of an anti oxidant to be dangerous.

    You do bring up a good point though.
    You should dose anything more than 500 mg well away from workouts though. Like maybe take your biggest doses upon waking or before going to bed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post
    You should dose anything more than 500 mg well away from workouts though. Like maybe take your biggest doses upon waking or before going to bed
    Agreed. Anything with COX-2 inhibiting properties (anti-inflammatories typically fall in this category) should be dosed ~4 hours peri-workout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla99 View Post

    You should dose anything more than 500 mg well away from workouts though. Like maybe take your biggest doses upon waking or before going to bed
    Of vitamin c? How come? I usually try and do 500mg pre workout. 1g breakfast. 500mg before bed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    Of vitamin c? How come? I usually try and do 500mg pre workout. 1g breakfast. 500mg before bed.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...4356443&page=1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    I use Ascorbic Acid crystals and bump it up to 8g a day when I feel a cold or virus coming on and 9 out of 10 times it stops it dead in its tracks. Then I slowly scale it down to 1 to 2g daily maintenance.

    Host of benefits. If I recall its also a potent NOS inhibitor.
    No real evidence to suggest mega-dosing actually works beyond that of placebo, although it isn't well researched so who knows; but at those dosages, the half life would be incredible low.

    Edit: It seems as though the ascorbyl radical itself (technically a prooxidant) is not overly potent due to the position of the free radical group

    I think many people get carried away with Vit C supplementation and assume that because it is so good at lower dosages; it must be better at higher dosages.

    Vit C also doesn't preserve eNO2 per se, that is a function of any antioxidant; not just that of Vit C.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    No real evidence to suggest mega-dosing actually works beyond that of placebo, although it isn't well researched so who knows; but at those dosages, the half life would be incredible low.

    Edit: It seems as though the ascorbyl radical itself (technically a prooxidant) is not overly potent due to the position of the free radical group

    I think many people get carried away with Vit C supplementation and assume that because it is so good at lower dosages; it must be better at higher dosages.

    Vit C also doesn't preserve eNO2 per se, that is a function of any antioxidant; not just that of Vit C.
    Low half life which is why when mega dosing its recommended to divide over 4 to 8 doses a day. Even during maintenance I don't take over 500mg at a time.

    There is a ton of evidence showing vitamin c to be anti bacterial, anti viral, promoting immune function, even necessary in the development of t cells.

    I don't know how anyone can say immune benefits from vitamin c are placebo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    No real evidence to suggest mega-dosing actually works beyond that of placebo, although it isn't well researched so who knows; but at those dosages, the half life would be incredible low.

    Edit: It seems as though the ascorbyl radical itself (technically a prooxidant) is not overly potent due to the position of the free radical group

    I think many people get carried away with Vit C supplementation and assume that because it is so good at lower dosages; it must be better at higher dosages.

    Vit C also doesn't preserve eNO2 per se, that is a function of any antioxidant; not just that of Vit C.
    I believe there is s mouse study showing mega dosing vitamin c to be anti tumor. Another study showing mega dosing to be relatively safe. I haven't seen any studies showing mega dosing c to be of zero benefit so maybe its still up in the air.

    I'm a big follower of Linus Pauling who I believe was way ahead of his time.

    Anecdotally I can say when I feel a cold coming on while maintaining at 1g a day and I bump up to 4 to 8g, that cold is gone almost immediately every time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    Low half life which is why when mega dosing its recommended to divide over 4 to 8 doses a day. Even during maintenance I don't take over 500mg at a time.

    There is a ton of evidence showing vitamin c to be anti bacterial, anti viral, promoting immune function, even necessary in the development of t cells.

    I don't know how anyone can say immune benefits from vitamin c are placebo.
    I didn't say they were placebo, what I meant was that there is very limited evidence that superdosing vit C will yield any further benefits than 200mg-500mg-1000mg or whatever the recommendation is. Those benefits occur at the daily recommended dose regardless, that doesn't mean the effects are enhanced the more you take. Or are they? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    I believe there is s mouse study showing mega dosing vitamin c to be anti tumor. Another study showing mega dosing to be relatively safe. I haven't seen any studies showing mega dosing c to be of zero benefit so maybe its still up in the air.

    I'm a big follower of Linus Pauling who I believe was way ahead of his time.

    Anecdotally I can say when I feel a cold coming on while maintaining at 1g a day and I bump up to 4 to 8g, that cold is gone almost immediately every time.
    Ann Intern Med. 2004 Apr 6;140(7):533-7.
    Vitamin C pharmacokinetics: implications for oral and intravenous use.
    Padayatty SJ, Sun H, Wang Y, Riordan HD, Hewitt SM, Katz A, Wesley RA, Levine M.
    Source

    National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, the National Cancer Institut, and the Clinical Center, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892-1372, USA.
    Abstract
    BACKGROUND:

    Vitamin C at high concentrations is toxic to cancer cells in vitro. Early clinical studies of vitamin C in patients with terminal cancer suggested clinical benefit, but 2 double-blind, placebo-controlled trials showed none. However, these studies used different routes of administration.
    OBJECTIVE:

    To determine whether plasma vitamin C concentrations vary substantially with the route of administration.
    DESIGN:

    Dose concentration studies and pharmacokinetic modeling.
    SETTING:

    Academic medical center.
    PARTICIPANTS:

    17 healthy hospitalized volunteers.
    MEASUREMENTS:

    Vitamin C plasma and urine concentrations were measured after administration of oral and intravenous doses at a dose range of 0.015 to 1.25 g, and plasma concentrations were calculated for a dose range of 1 to 100 g.
    RESULTS:

    Peak plasma vitamin C concentrations were higher after administration of intravenous doses than after administration of oral doses (P < 0.001), and the difference increased according to dose. Vitamin C at a dose of 1.25 g administered orally produced mean (+/-sd) peak plasma concentrations of 134.8 +/- 20.6 micromol/L compared with 885 +/- 201.2 micromol/L for intravenous administration. For the maximum tolerated oral dose of 3 g every 4 hours, pharmacokinetic modeling predicted peak plasma vitamin C concentrations of 220 micromol/L and 13 400 micromol/L for a 50-g intravenous dose. Peak predicted urine concentrations of vitamin C from intravenous administration were 140-fold higher than those from maximum oral doses.
    LIMITATIONS:

    Patient data are not available to confirm pharmacokinetic modeling at high doses and in patients with cancer.
    CONCLUSIONS:

    Oral vitamin C produces plasma concentrations that are tightly controlled. Only intravenous administration of vitamin C produces high plasma and urine concentrations that might have antitumor activity. Because efficacy of vitamin C treatment cannot be judged from clinical trials that use only oral dosing, the role of vitamin C in cancer treatment should be reevaluated.

    This study?

    I guess it wouldn't matter much anyway, high dosages yield low half-lives and those doses being spaced out (i.e. 500mg-1000mg at any one time) doesn't appear damaging. But I don't know much else about Vit C lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    I didn't say they were placebo, what I meant was that there is very limited evidence that superdosing vit C will yield any further benefits than 200mg-500mg. Those benefits occur at the daily recommended dose regardless, that doesn't mean the effects are enhanced the more you take.
    Coop said it was placebo, at least my vit c as hangover cure haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Ann Intern Med. 2004 Apr 6;140(7):533-7.
    Vitamin C pharmacokinetics: implications for oral and intravenous use.
    Padayatty SJ, Sun H, Wang Y, Riordan HD, Hewitt SM, Katz A, Wesley RA, Levine M.
    Source

    National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, the National Cancer Institut, and the Clinical Center, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892-1372, USA.
    Abstract
    BACKGROUND:

    Vitamin C at high concentrations is toxic to cancer cells in vitro. Early clinical studies of vitamin C in patients with terminal cancer suggested clinical benefit, but 2 double-blind, placebo-controlled trials showed none. However, these studies used different routes of administration.
    OBJECTIVE:

    To determine whether plasma vitamin C concentrations vary substantially with the route of administration.
    DESIGN:

    Dose concentration studies and pharmacokinetic modeling.
    SETTING:

    Academic medical center.
    PARTICIPANTS:

    17 healthy hospitalized volunteers.
    MEASUREMENTS:

    Vitamin C plasma and urine concentrations were measured after administration of oral and intravenous doses at a dose range of 0.015 to 1.25 g, and plasma concentrations were calculated for a dose range of 1 to 100 g.
    RESULTS:

    Peak plasma vitamin C concentrations were higher after administration of intravenous doses than after administration of oral doses (P < 0.001), and the difference increased according to dose. Vitamin C at a dose of 1.25 g administered orally produced mean (+/-sd) peak plasma concentrations of 134.8 +/- 20.6 micromol/L compared with 885 +/- 201.2 micromol/L for intravenous administration. For the maximum tolerated oral dose of 3 g every 4 hours, pharmacokinetic modeling predicted peak plasma vitamin C concentrations of 220 micromol/L and 13 400 micromol/L for a 50-g intravenous dose. Peak predicted urine concentrations of vitamin C from intravenous administration were 140-fold higher than those from maximum oral doses.
    LIMITATIONS:

    Patient data are not available to confirm pharmacokinetic modeling at high doses and in patients with cancer.
    CONCLUSIONS:

    Oral vitamin C produces plasma concentrations that are tightly controlled. Only intravenous administration of vitamin C produces high plasma and urine concentrations that might have antitumor activity. Because efficacy of vitamin C treatment cannot be judged from clinical trials that use only oral dosing, the role of vitamin C in cancer treatment should be reevaluated.

    This study?

    I guess it wouldn't matter much anyway, high dosages yield low half-lives and those doses being spaced out (i.e. 500mg-1000mg at any one time) doesn't appear damaging. But I don't know much else about Vit C lol
    Doesnt intravenous administration of just about everything lead to higher plasma concentrations compared to oral?

    Good study. It's basically confirming why I said even when megadosing its necessary to space out dosing.

    I'm not sure if this study is the be all end all in proving oral dosing of C is not anti tumor. Especially when previous studies believed it was. It does prove higher oral dosing leads to slightly higher plasma concentrations which may fight influenza and other viruses, no?
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    But I do see your point well taken in the study in that jumping from 1g to 3g oral dose does not raise plasma levels a ton especially when you look at plasma levels of intravenous admin.

    I would like to see more studies done on this though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    But I do see your point well taken in the study in that jumping from 1g to 3g oral dose does not raise plasma levels a ton especially when you look at plasma levels of intravenous admin.

    I would like to see more studies done on this though.
    I would too
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    You shouldn't be megadosing any antioxidant, that's a rule that applies to vitamin C too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    Doesnt intravenous administration of just about everything lead to higher plasma concentrations compared to oral?
    Bioavailability is the % of ingested material that ends up in the bloodstream. So IV is 100% bioavailability...oral will always be equal or lower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You shouldn't be megadosing any antioxidant, that's a rule that applies to vitamin C too.
    I have green tea & vitamin E (tocotrienols) ED already so I tend to agree with you there

    Too much of a good thing
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