Coop's Corner #2: L-Norvaline?

mr.cooper69

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L-Norvaline has been advertised for several years as an arginase inhibitor, capable of preventing the degradation of arginine. This is thought to increase NO levels by virtue of increased arginine availability as a precursor to nitric oxide.

Today we will look at what L-Norvaline will and will not do in healthy men.

L-norvaline is a mixed arginase inhibitor, meaning that it degrades arginine not only in the liver (the site of urea production), but also various other locations including the GI lumen and endothelium of vasculature.

To date, every study showing that norvaline was effective in improving vascular parameters was conducted in unhealthy populations: be it metabolic syndrome, hypertension, or diabetes. The common denominator in all these cases is vascular inflammation and subsequent endothelial dysfunction.

Without getting too sciency, here are some passages worth reading:

"In conditions of normally functioning endothelium, the balance between vasoconstriction and vasodilatation factors is supported. The basic vasodilatation agent in endothelium is NO. Infringement of the given balance leads to development of endothelial dysfunction. L-arginine serves as a source of NO in a cell. Inhibitors of arginase, suppressing activity of the given enzyme, promote NO biosynthesis increase, preventing the development of endothelial dysfunction. Application of L-norvaline promotes suppression of activity of arginase enzyme which allows for a raise in L-arginine stocks."

Arginase Inhibitor in the Pharmacological Correction of Endothelial Dysfunction

"Emerging evidence suggests that increased endothelial arginase activity decreases L-arginine availability for eNOS to produce NO under various pathological conditions [17]. The arginase inhibitor L-norvaline has been previously shown to improve endothelial NO release via inhibition of arginase [18]. Treatment of ApoE-/- mice with arginase inhibitors has been reported to improve endothelial function and reduce plaque formation [19]. It is however, not clear whether arginase is indeed involved in vascular inflammation responses, a crucial mechanism in atherogenesis. The present study further investigated whether arginase is involved in the modulation of endothelial inflammatory responses and whether this is dependent on NOS activity in endothelial cells. In cultured human endothelial cells, we demonstrate that the arginase inhibitor L-norvaline exerts anti-inflammatory effect at the same concentration ranges which exhibit arginase inhibitory activity [18]."

Inhibition of S6K1 accounts partially for the anti-inflammatory effects of the arginase inhibitor L-norvaline


What this is essentially saying is that people with endothelial dysfunction end up overexpressing arginase, which not only depletes the body of the arginine necessary for the NO/cGMP pathway, but it also seems to be involved in inflammation and atherogenesis. This is effectively an arginine deficiency. Norvaline ameliorates this deficiency by taking the activity of the arginase enzyme back to normal levels.

Unfortunately, a similar effect would not be expected in healthy humans, wherein arginase expression is adequate and further reduction in endothelial arginase will prove worthless due to a lack of concomitant increases in eNOS expression. Furthermore, the anti-inflammatory effect of norvaline on the endothelium will be absent since healthy individuals should not have signs of atherosclerosis to begin with.

In fact, supplementing with norvaline (at high doses) may be detrimental to health, as norvaline has demonstrated to reduce arginase expression in hepatocytes. Arginase is a key enzyme in ridding the body of nitrogenous waste. It catalyzes the last step of urea production. Urea is primarily how nitrogen is removed from the human body. If you inhibit hepatic arginase to a strong enough degree, there is potential for hyperammonemia due to negative feedback loops in the urea cycle, which often result in psychotic symptoms. Indeed, we see this with the rare care of congenital arginase deficiency.

Lastly, norvaline may be able to inhibit arginase activity in the GI lumen. This is the sole potential utility that I see for norvaline in a healthy human. By inhibiting arginase activity in the lumen, it is possible that more ingested arginine will reach the plasma. Unfortunately, the same issue with eNOS expression holds true, and arginine has repeatedly failed to raise NO in healthy human subjects. Arginine may have other benefits, again seen primarily in cases of metabolic disorders.



So the verdict on Norvaline?


Low doses won't do anything, high doses may be detrimental to health, and medium doses co-ingested with arginine may increase arginine's bioavailability.

The story changes completely if you have endothelial dysfunction.

Stay tuned for round 3 next time I take a good stimulant dose :D
 
rob112

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Another awesome thread. Awesome work Coop.
 

mr.cooper69

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Thanks guys. These mini-articles will be exclusive to AM only (feel free to repost but I will only be posting them here). Only a major forum with ethics, such as this, will be empowered (with knowledge).

These are all written fairly quickly and deviate from formal articles on multiple levels, but it should allow most people to understand what's going on without having to dig too much themselves. Due to the rapid nature of the writing process, I can do one every few days and look to have over a hundred by next year
 

mr.cooper69

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I tried taking it around 7 or 8 years ago in bulk. It never did anything for me.
I'd strongly advise against the use of Norvaline in bulk. People seem to like to "up the dose," which can have toxic consequences as detailed above.

In fact, since BBers consume high protein diets, the need for proper arginase function is tremendous
 

jking4

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Thanks guys. These mini-articles will be exclusive to AM only (feel free to repost but I will only be posting them here). Only a major forum with ethics, such as this, will be empowered (with knowledge).

These are all written fairly quickly and deviate from formal articles on multiple levels, but it should allow most people to understand what's going on without having to dig too much themselves. Due to the rapid nature of the writing process, I can do one every few days and look to have over a hundred by next year
I use to have an account on this one but I forgot my user name and email, it's been a long time. I have an account on other forums but I prefer this one as I just recently started posting in them again.
 
T-Bone

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I'd strongly advise against the use of Norvaline in bulk. People seem to like to "up the dose," which can have toxic consequences as detailed above.

In fact, since BBers consume high protein diets, the need for proper arginase function is tremendous

That was years ago, I've long since thrown it in the trash.
 

domore

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If you are looking to have 100 or so in the future, it would be nice to have a sub-forum specifically for the articles. Only you would have permission to post new threads, and members could only post replies.
 

mr.cooper69

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If you are looking to have 100 or so in the future, it would be nice to have a sub-forum specifically for the articles. Only you would have permission to post new threads, and members could only post replies.
The thing is, I don't want this to be advanced discussion. I want this to be something all the regulars can understand. Am I succeeding in that so far?
 

mr.cooper69

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Almost, I have ADID though....
Maybe I'll just add a "bottom line" at the end of each one. Though it pains me that most people will probably skip everything and go to that :(
 
jwa254

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There will always be those people. However, there will also be others that are eager to learn (especially considering you break it down into layman's terms). Regardless of what you end up deciding to do, you'll have readers. Guaranteed.
 

domore

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The thing is, I don't want this to be advanced discussion. I want this to be something all the regulars can understand. Am I succeeding in that so far?
Absolutely. It would be nice to reference past threads, instead of searching the mass quantity. I don't want them to get lost in the abyss.

By explaining in layman's terms, you demonstrate commanding knowledge of the subject. It is easy to explain something among those in your field, but many seem to struggle explaining concepts to those outside of it. You definitely succeed at making it understandable.
 
rob112

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I may be way off but I'll ask anyways...wasn't an older GDA product previously recommend as a prebed dosing to increase recovery and GH? I'm not looking for a "what is GH and why are we trying to boost it?" I'm merely asking to see if you came across anything supporting this GH theory is my memory serves me correctly.
 

mr.cooper69

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I may be way off but I'll ask anyways...wasn't an older GDA product previously recommend as a prebed dosing to increase recovery and GH? I'm not looking for a "what is GH and why are we trying to boost it?" I'm merely asking to see if you came across anything supporting this GH theory is my memory serves me correctly.
The OG Slin sane wouldnt do this anyway because the main ingredient was a glucose blocker, not a GLUT4 translocator. I personally recommended it pre-bed because it enhanced my sleep quality, but I can't say there's any science to that
 
rob112

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The OG Slin sane wouldnt do this anyway because the main ingredient was a glucose blocker, not a GLUT4 translocator. I personally recommended it pre-bed because it enhanced my sleep quality, but I can't say there's any science to that
Thank you sir.
 
booneman77

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These threads are great so far coop. Solid, detailed, factual, referenced info; followed by simple overall thoughts and overview. A little for everyone. Keep them coming for sure!
 
Jiigzz

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Great info Coop
 

aceroni

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Much appreciated coop


Keep them coming brother.
 
TheMovement

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The thing is, I don't want this to be advanced discussion. I want this to be something all the regulars can understand. Am I succeeding in that so far?
Most definitely and you leave the door open for personal research to be followed up upon. Thank you Mr. Cooper for taking the time out to help shine light on topics that always seem gray. looking forward to the next installment
 
bolt10

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Loving these posts. Maybe add in what is considered low, medium, and high dosing, but otherwise solid content that is very nicely broken down. :cool:
 
thebigt

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Loving these posts. Maybe add in what is considered low, medium, and high dosing, but otherwise solid content that is very nicely broken down. :cool:
indeed..i was thinking what a medium dose would be, and how much arginine could or would be added????
 
ELROCK

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Good write-up Cooper! Thanks for the interesting info.
 
Touey

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Good write-up Cooper! Thanks for the interesting info.
lol am I barely speaking the English with you brotatos. Too not understanding how the phraseology is too flat or maybe language..how about for you to say.:)

Cooper! Good write-up!!! "Man, this baby corners like it's on rails!",- Vivian aka Pretty Woman about the Lotus car.:D:)
 
Driven2lift

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Fantastic write ups Coop, loving your corner and in for more
 

kissdadookie

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I can hear the "we want more we want more" chant.
 
R-Mac

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The thing is, I don't want this to be advanced discussion. I want this to be something all the regulars can understand. Am I succeeding in that so far?
Yes - great write ups, some of the best stuff I've read in the many years I've been on AM- - you break it down in an easy to understand manner for us..Thx Coop
 
bioman

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Sincere thanks to Coop. Your input is always appreciated.

Like Tbone, I tried this stuff way back when it was all the rage. Didn't notice a thing and have never bothered with it again. Agmatine and nitrates are so much better than the days of AAKG and norvalline, it's not even funny.
 

kissdadookie

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Sincere thanks to Coop. Your input is always appreciated.

Like Tbone, I tried this stuff way back when it was all the rage. Didn't notice a thing and have never bothered with it again. Agmatine and nitrates are so much better than the days of AAKG and norvalline, it's not even funny.
Sadly AAKG and Norvalline seems to never want to go away :p
 
3clipseGT

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How much Norvaline is considered to much or a toxic dose?
 
FL3X MAGNUM

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Too many responses to read through, but what about combining norvaline and cit/mal?
 
Afi140

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There's insufficient data for me to make a judgment call, but I'd consider 200mg a low-medium dose
So would you still drink purple wrathh? 100mg. Has me a little worried :/

Edit: nm. Just read low wont do anything so I think it's ok? Haha
 
Mikeyjd

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Muchas Gracias
 
Auslifter

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Mr Coop, i recently had an issue where i thought i had to much zinc and depleted copper, or thought it was from xgels

when infact i had been getting to much L-norvaline, i had weird health issues and stopped using it right away/everything that had it

was on

Peak Beta + (with the xgels) 75mg L-Norvaline x2 serves a day
Cellucor NO3 (100mg L-Norvaline)

then later added in Slin Sane which has it in it, but this was before it. not sure how much was in it.

i made a thread, infact felt as if i was having some sort hypertension issue, stange changes in hand colour like red hands, numbness and tingly feelings very fkd up its gone now, i went to the doctor had bloods done, liver values were elevated and urea was up.. i first thought creatine but now am sure norvaline was the cause
 

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so if you're saying that the increase in substrate (arginine) induced by arginase antagonism will not lead to increased NO production without a concomitant rise in eNOS, what's the point of supplementing with citrulline (for vasodilation)?
 

mr.cooper69

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Because citrulline increases eNOS expression as well
 

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