Supps for PCT

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    Here's a hint to why forskolin is exceptionally beneficial in PCT:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1423030
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mp859 View Post
    I know the supposed logic behind it but I don't feel it's possible for one hormone to shut you down and another to say your not shut down. The test wins the battle and you waste hcg instead of just blasting it after your test before pct which is effective IMO to each his own each person will have there opinion or they will go off someone else's opinion from an Internet protocol
    This literally makes no sense lol. It is possible, because that is what hCG does. It mimics LH. You are of course welcome to disagree, but hCG on cycle helps keep testicular function and sensitivity whilst 'on'. I'm not sure why you think it is 'supposed' logic; this is literally what happens.
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    I tend to stray from AAS/PCT discussion, but I'd caution heavily against prolonged HCG use (which would be needed if using it through the cycle)
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I tend to stray from AAS/PCT discussion, but I'd caution heavily against prolonged HCG use (which would be needed if using it through the cycle)
    On cycle, especially longer cycles, one would use 100ius to maintain testicular sensitivity and function (enough that it mimics the bodys own LH secretion to minimize estrogen conversion). Although it should also be used concurrently with an AI to prevent gyno.

    I'm curious though, why would you suggest avoiding it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    On cycle, especially longer cycles, one would use 100ius to maintain testicular sensitivity and function (enough that it mimics the bodys own LH secretion to minimize estrogen conversion). Although it should also be used concurrently with an AI to prevent gyno.

    I'm curious though, why would you suggest avoiding it?
    I suggest avoiding prolonged use (emphasis on "prolonged") because data shows the possibility of gonadotrope loss
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I suggest avoiding prolonged use (emphasis on "prolonged") because data shows the possibility of gonadotrope loss
    Always good to know.

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    Nolva
    Clomid
    Erase
    Daa
    Cel post cycle assist
    Anabeta
    Versa 1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mp859 View Post

    I know the supposed logic behind it but I don't feel it's possible for one hormone to shut you down and another to say your not shut down. The test wins the battle and you waste hcg instead of just blasting it after your test before pct which is effective IMO to each his own each person will have there opinion or they will go off someone else's opinion from an Internet protocol
    I would never touch aas without 250iu hcg mon/wed/fri. Night and day difference
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    Lean fx
    Anabeta elite
    Hmb
    Creatine
    X-gels
    Finaflex revolution pct
    D-pol

    Clomid
    Nolva

    Im Doing all that for pct
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    I woudent really run Nolva, its a old piece of **** drug made to cure oestrogen cancers.. nevertheless it works by inhibiting the estrogen receptor so that the estrogen cannot bind thereby causing side-effects.. Problem is that your body is still aromatising testosteron into estrogene, resulting in a estrogen buildup. Hence why some people get "rebound" gyno, because at one point u have to stop taking nolva, and then the receptors are open with a massive estorgene builded up

    My advise would be:
    Hcg= HTPA/LH/FLH
    OTC estrogene blockers such as triazole/erase "bump up to high dose" could work as AI - mild serm?
    Testosteron booster= Activate xtreme has allways worked as OTC for me..
    and run an AI such as aromasin letro ect.

    Nevertheless, i would not advise you to run steroids in any means... they are great at building mass/strength, but the mental tuffness you get through hard workouts and extreme dieting is a whole another aspect of working out! Now i dont know anything about you, but it is kinda math that the gains you have made on tren/test is not keepable, your body produces 75mg test a week = no possible way to keep it all
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    why are people still advising clomid/nolva, both are crap pill drugs that have pronounced side-effects.. they are old school, bet my as that your better off on erase - triazole otcs "healthwise" wich is far more important then keeping ALLLLLLLLLL your gains :> wich eventually will vanish depending on how far above your genetical maximum you are.. or inject some jjjuice more
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    Quote Originally Posted by Profion View Post
    why are people still advising clomid/nolva, both are crap pill drugs that have pronounced side-effects.. they are old school, bet my as that your better off on erase - triazole otcs "healthwise" wich is far more important then keeping ALLLLLLLLLL your gains :> wich eventually will vanish depending on how far above your genetical maximum you are.. or inject some jjjuice more
    Rule numero uno, no SERM, no cycle. This isn't the anabolics section though and I have derailed this thread enough. However, suggesting Triazole (a herbal supplement) as a sole AI for PCT, especially for stronger gear, is not a good suggestion.

    If you want we can debate this further down in the anabolics forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Rule numero uno, no SERM, no cycle. This isn't the anabolics section though and I have derailed this thread enough. However, suggesting Triazole (a herbal supplement) as a sole AI for PCT, especially for stronger gear, is not a good suggestion.

    If you want we can debate this further down in the anabolics forum.
    I couldn't agree more. Get a propped pct buddy. It's not worth it to cycle without one. Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido1983 View Post
    Starting my post and was for looking to get a few extra supps. Any ideas??

    Was getting
    More protein
    Test booster
    Creatine

    PCT- Titanium +Erase + DAA (+torem if you can get some)

    Creatine - Creignite

    Can't go wrong with any of these.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgementDay View Post

    PCT- Titanium +Erase + DAA (+torem if you can get some)

    Creatine - Creignite

    Can't go wrong with any of these.
    Is torem better than nolva ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolce View Post
    Is torem better than nolva ?
    Well Nolva has been around longer, I myself prefer Torem, it shows to have less sides, but everyone reacts different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolce View Post

    Is torem better than nolva ?
    Nolva is garbage in my opinion
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    Quote Originally Posted by infraredline View Post
    Nolva is garbage in my opinion
    Welp, your opinion is garbage in my opinion.


    Personally, Clomid over all.. .wouldn't touch torem with a 10 foot pole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by infraredline View Post
    Nolva is garbage in my opinion
    Curious, why do you consider it garbage?

    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    Welp, your opinion is garbage in my opinion.


    Personally, Clomid over all.. .wouldn't touch torem with a 10 foot pole.

    Mike
    Why's that? I haven't really seen too much bad on it (out of the ordinary at least) but TBH I haven't looked into Torem much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Curious, why do you consider it garbage?

    Why's that? I haven't really seen too much bad on it (out of the ordinary at least) but TBH I haven't looked into Torem much.
    I know personally with torem I FEEL like i rebound much faster then other serms. And higher doses of Clomid at the front of pct make me moody.
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    I like to use a serm + a host of goodies. usually I like something like, but not limited to: reversitol + intimidate/tropinol
    this plan usually takes me to the promised land.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post

    I know personally with torem I FEEL like i rebound much faster then other serms. And higher doses of Clomid at the front of pct make me moody.
    Agreed. Clomid works for me but with torem I have zero sides and I "feel" recovered in days not weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Curious, why do you consider it garbage?

    Why's that? I haven't really seen too much bad on it (out of the ordinary at least) but TBH I haven't looked into Torem much.
    1) nolvadex is a carcinogen
    2) increases clotting factor which is not something you want to do in an environment with and already high rbc
    3) decreases collagen synthesis and igf-1 production
    4) does nothing to restore the hpta, it's only use is to help prevent gyno formation, Dan Duchaine even said this. We now have AI's for this purpose which have less sides and quite frankly work better.
    5) in most, again I say most not all, people it makes them feel like garbage

    Torem is the superior serm. It should always be used unless you have run a 19-nor which you should then use clomid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post

    Welp, your opinion is garbage in my opinion.

    Personally, Clomid over all.. .wouldn't touch torem with a 10 foot pole.

    Mike
    My friend I suggest you get out of the 80's with your knowledge regarding pct. Your almost as bad as the people that still believe evolution doesn't exist
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    Quote Originally Posted by infraredline View Post

    1) nolvadex is a carcinogen
    2) increases clotting factor which is not something you want to do in an environment with and already high rbc
    3) decreases collagen synthesis and igf-1 production
    4) does nothing to restore the hpta, it's only use is to help prevent gyno formation, Dan Duchaine even said this. We now have AI's for this purpose which have less sides and quite frankly work better.
    5) in most, again I say most not all, people it makes them feel like garbage

    Torem is the superior serm. It should always be used unless you have run a 19-nor which you should then use clomid.
    #1 is true to a degree but not at te dose or length you use it

    2 and 3. Most serms and ai"s do this with exception of exemestane

    4. It does a lot to restore the hpga mainly through the hypothalamus where clomid is through the pituitary. Torem is 4 chloro tamoxifen making it better for lowering e2 which Nolva won't do. But mg for mg isn't as Strong and more expensive.

    5. Clomid shouldn't make anyone feel like garbage if ran with an AI

    You comment about being stuck in the 80s was rude. There's a lot of tried and true value in what critical was saying. Pick up Seth Roberts anabolic pharmacology. It'll shed new light on a lot of stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post

    #1 is true to a degree but not at te dose or length you use it

    2 and 3. Most serms and ai"s do this with exception of exemestane

    4. It does a lot to restore the hpga mainly through the hypothalamus where clomid is through the pituitary. Torem is 4 chloro tamoxifen making it better for lowering e2 which Nolva won't do. But mg for mg isn't as Strong and more expensive.

    5. Clomid shouldn't make anyone feel like garbage if ran with an AI

    You comment about being stuck in the 80s was rude. There's a lot of tried and true value in what critical was saying. Pick up Seth Roberts anabolic pharmacology. It'll shed new light on a lot of stuff.
    Formestane also does not hence why I never recommend using anything by aromasin or formestane for an ai. Arimistane also seems to not have a negative effect regarding this either.

    I wasn't referring to clomid I was referring to nolvadex with the ****ty feeling point.

    And how was the other posters comment not rude? "in my opinion your opinion is garbage" I firmly believe in the saying do unto others as you would have done unto yourself, if he wants to be a dick then I'm gonna be one back.

    Also that book was published in 2007, a whole 6 years ago. So much has been learned an a lot has changed in that short 6 years so I don't feel that is an up to date source of info. Even the most recent anabolics which was published 3 years ago is outdated regarding a lot of its information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by infraredline View Post

    Formestane also does not hence why I never recommend using anything by aromasin or formestane for an ai. Arimistane also seems to not have a negative effect regarding this either.

    I wasn't referring to clomid I was referring to nolvadex with the ****ty feeling point.

    And how was the other posters comment not rude? "in my opinion your opinion is garbage" I firmly believe in the saying do unto others as you would have done unto yourself, if he wants to be a dick then I'm gonna be one back.

    Also that book was published in 2007, a whole 6 years ago. So much has been learned an a lot has changed in that short 6 years so I don't feel that is an up to date source of info. Even the most recent anabolics which was published 3 years ago is outdated regarding a lot of its information.
    It's still a very good read.

    Your right I didn't comment on the other posters actions. He's been on this forum a long time and more then likely ment no disrespect

    Arimistane for me feels like it lowers cortisol more then estrogen.

    Form and 6 bromos for the legal stuff. However the fact that form lowers dht some what I do not like that's why when it was available bromo all the wah
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