Cissus leaves me feeling sick - where now?

[bakerwil]

From the last time I used Super Cissus, it leaves me feeling 'crappy', but I know it works if I can get through a bottle. I have tried as directed 2 caps, 2 x a day with food. I take a probiotic daily

Any ideas on what I can do to get Cissus into me?
Any alternatives?

 

[T-Bone]

From the last time I used Super Cissus, it leaves me feeling 'crappy', but I know it works if I can get through a bottle. I have tried as directed 2 caps, 2 x a day with food. I take a probiotic daily

Any ideas on what I can do to get Cissus into me?
Any alternatives?

What do mean by "Feeling Crappy"?. Why not try a different brand?. Or maybe start with 1 and 1 and raise the dosage in a week or two.

 

[heavylifter33]

From the last time I used Super Cissus, it leaves me feeling 'crappy', but I know it works if I can get through a bottle. I have tried as directed 2 caps, 2 x a day with food. I take a probiotic daily

Any ideas on what I can do to get Cissus into me?
Any alternatives?

You can take caps and see if that helps. SNS offers 5% Cissus caps, best in the industry for joint/ligament health.

 

[bakerwil]

What do mean by "Feeling Crappy"?. Why not try a different brand?. Or maybe start with 1 and 1 and raise the dosage in a week or two.

Sometimes their is some GI issues. Their is this overall feeling like when you have a bit of the flu and it last's for hours. Sometimes this is mild and sometimes it is more pronounced. This ends up leaving me feeling irritated, anti social etc. Just not worth it. I am using what is supposed to be the best capped product in the industry. I have tried starting with 1 and raising the dose after a week. I can feel the crappy feeling coming on at 1. At 2, it's way too much. However, I could really used some food for my joints....maybe I should SNS. I just think it may be Cissus in general. I guess I could try 1 twice a day, but I don't think I will get any results at this low dosage.

 

[T-Bone]

I believe Cissus can lower blood sugar. I'm not sure how much though and not sure if that is the problem you are having. Are you taking anything else that can also lower blood sugar?. Maybe try eating more immediately after you take it. Have a good solid meal, nothing light. I'm really not sure but it would be worth a try.

 

[bakerwil]

I believe Cissus can lower blood sugar. I'm not sure how much though and not sure if that is the problem you are having. Are you taking anything else that can also lower blood sugar?. Maybe try eating more immediately after you take it. Have a good solid meal, nothing light. I'm really not sure but it would be worth a try.

Thanks T-bone. I have been dieting. I will try using 1 when I am eating the biggest portions and then move to 2 if that works!

 

[T-Bone]

Thanks T-bone. I have been dieting. I will try using 1 when I am eating the biggest portions and then move to 2 if that works!

Cool. Let me know if it works out or not.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Cissus doesn't reduce blood glucose, but it does increase plasma serotonin. Are you taking an SSRI?

 

[bakerwil]

Cissus doesn't reduce blood glucose, but it does increase plasma serotonin. Are you taking an SSRI?

I am in fact. Please tell me more...

 

[mr.cooper69]

I am in fact. Please tell me more...

You may be experiencing serotonin syndrome, i.e. serotonin release elevated (via Cissus) while reuptake is blocked (via SSRI). I wouldn't combine the two...looks like Cissus isn't for you.

 

[JD261985]

You may be experiencing serotonin syndrome, i.e. serotonin release elevated (via Cissus) while reuptake is blocked (via SSRI). I wouldn't combine the two...looks like Cissus isn't for you.

Ok it could be a number of things though. I've been taking cissus for months and months and I take an SSRI

 

[mr.cooper69]

Ok it could be a number of things though. I've been taking cissus for months and months and I take an SSRI

Thats fine. Neurophysiology is highly variable interindividually. You are likely on different medication and a different dose too. Given everything OP posted, a drug-supplement interaction seems to be the most plausible explanation, although I can't say with certainty that its the reason

 

[McBurly]

would you advise those taking 5htp or a-y supps to avoid cissus for that reason?

 

[mr.cooper69]

would you advise those taking 5htp or a-y supps to avoid cissus for that reason?

No, because those don't even hold a candle to an SSRI. 5HTP acts similarly to cissus as far as the endpoint is concerned (increased serotonin release), and a-y is actually a serotonin receptor blocker (anti-serotonergic), albeit very mildly.

 

[JD261985]

Thats fine. Neurophysiology is highly variable interindividually. You are likely on different medication and a different dose too. Given everything OP posted, a drug-supplement interaction seems to be the most plausible explanation, although I can't say with certainty that its the reason

Yea also length of time probably plays a role. I've been on this antidepressant since I was 12...I'm 27 now..yikes..I've tried to come off I just can't..its like my brain needs it now..if that makes any sense

 

[mr.cooper69]

Yea also length of time probably plays a role. I've been on this antidepressant since I was 12...I'm 27 now..yikes..I've tried to come off I just can't..its like my brain needs it now..if that makes any sense

As long as it keeps doing its job as far as keeping major depressive episodes at bay

 

[bakerwil]

You may be experiencing serotonin syndrome, i.e. serotonin release elevated (via Cissus) while reuptake is blocked (via SSRI). I wouldn't combine the two...looks like Cissus isn't for you.

Mr. Cooper, what do you think would be the best alternative? I do take fish oil...

 

[T-Bone]

Cissus doesn't reduce blood glucose, but it does increase plasma serotonin. Are you taking an SSRI?

Sorry, just googled for the answer. What led me to believe that it does was this,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1800848/

Under the heading

Conclusion

CQR-300 (300 mg daily) and CORE (1028 mg daily) brought about significant reductions in weight and blood glucose levels, while decreasing serum lipids thus improving cardiovascular risk factors. The increase in plasma 5-HT and creatinine for both groups hypothesizes a mechanism of controlling appetite and promoting the increase of lean muscle mass by Cissus quadrangularis, thereby supporting the clinical data for weight loss and improving cardiovascular health.

And also this,

Reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes

The number of people being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes has increased drastically in the past few years. Because cissus quadrangularis can help lower blood sugar, it can also reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes. Furthermore, cissus quadrangularis helps reduce the risk of this condition by helping promote weight loss. Type 2 diabetes is strongly correlated with obesity.

-from http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-cissus-quadrangularis.html

Also this,

Drug Interactions
Cissus quadrangularis may interact with diabetes drugs, as it can lower blood sugar. If you take such drugs, talk to a health care provider before trying cissus quadrangularis. Using herbs that affect blood sugar along with drugs meant to control blood sugar including insulin, can increase your risk of becoming hypoglycemic, meaning your blood-sugar levels will fall too low, according to "The Essential Herb-Drug-Vitamin Interaction Guide," by George T. Grossberg and Barry Fox.

From- http://www.livestrong.com/article/125567-side-effects-cissus-quadrangularis/

 

[mr.cooper69]

Sorry, just googled for the answer. What led me to believe that it does was this,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1800848/

Under the heading

And also this,

-from http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-cissus-quadrangularis.html

Also this,

From- http://www.livestrong.com/article/125567-side-effects-cissus-quadrangularis/

Tbone, the first link is showing how cissus improved parameters of metabolic syndrome by assisting with fat loss. The reduction in blood glucose is secondary to fat loss, not a GDA effect. The other two links are neither real sources nor accurate

 

[mr.cooper69]

Mr. Cooper, what do you think would be the best alternative? I do take fish oil...

I really enjoyed Antaeus Achilles which has a small amount of cissus. High dosed msm is another option

 

[T-Bone]

Tbone, the first link is showing how cissus improved parameters of metabolic syndrome by assisting with fat loss. The reduction in blood glucose is secondary to fat loss, not a GDA effect. The other two links are neither real sources nor accurate

Thanks Coop. I was just wanting to explain why and how I came to the conclusion of believing cissus might lower blood glucose. I appreciate your help. Didn't mean to give wrong information to the OP, and am glad you took the time to help out.

 

[gymratluke]

I have never experienced any problems with Cissus personally, and I have taken it both empty stomach and with food. Lots of great info in this thread, I had no idea it messes with Serotonin release!

 

[mr.cooper69]

Thanks Coop. I was just wanting to explain why and how I came to the conclusion of believing cissus might lower blood glucose. I appreciate your help. Didn't mean to give wrong information to the OP, and am glad you took the time to help out.

T, your info wasn't wrong, it just needed further elaboration. I admire your drive to continually educate yourself and others

 

[PharmAnalyst]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the purported antidiabetic effect is due to the presence of inhibitors of pancreatic lipase, alpha glucosidase, and alpha amylase similar in mechanism to acarbose/miglitol though not nearly as efficacious. Its very much not a hypoglycemic/GDA as Coop stated, but in theory should slow the rate of enzymatic digestion of consumed carbohydrates and therefore allow for a more effective insulin response.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the purported antidiabetic effect is due to the presence of inhibitors of pancreatic lipase, alpha glucosidase, and alpha amylase similar in mechanism to acarbose/miglitol though not nearly as efficacious. Its very much not a hypoglycemic/GDA as Coop stated, but in theory should slow the rate of enzymatic digestion of consumed carbohydrates and therefore allow for a more effective insulin response.

This is correct and one of the theories by which cissus suppresses appetite (lowered food intake) as per some of the weight loss trials. Of course, the rise in plasma serotonin is also consistent with appetite suppression

 

[PharmAnalyst]

Makes sense to me.

In the same vein as the earlier discussion about SSRI's being contraindicated, does Methyl Synephrine possess enough MAOI activity to be of similar concern when taken concurrently with Cissus?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Makes sense to me.

In the same vein as the earlier discussion about SSRI's being contraindicated, does Methyl Synephrine possess enough MAOI activity to be of similar concern when taken concurrently with Cissus?

I'd say no. The serotonergic effects of cissus really shouldn't be a deterrent to anyone who is combining a few supplements. When you throw something into the mix that has a massive, supraphysiological effect on synaptic serotonin levels (i.e. SSRI), it changes the picture a bit

 

[Clemenza]

Coop don't tannins promote glucose lowering effects?