3,7 keto dhea the same as arimistane(Androst-3,5-dien-7,1)

[infraredline]

Hey all, is the ingredient 3,7 keto dhea the same thing as arimistane (Androst-3,5-dien-7,17-dione)

 

[infraredline]

Bump...

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

no I don't belive so. your thinking of formastane.

 

[MuscleGauge1]

No they are not the same at all. Two different ingredients. I think he is right you are thinking of formastane. It is a different type of ingredient also. What product are you specifically speaking of?

 

[aaronuconn]

3,7-Keto DHEA can mean Androst-3,5-dien-7,17-dione. It's far from perfect nomenclature however.

 

[infraredline]

I can see why you would think that but I am not referring to formestane. I am referring to one of the ingredients in the product free test by applied nutriceuticals. It is actually listed as 3,7-oxo dhea (sorry about the mix up).

Also is arimistane a suitable ai in one's pct?

 

[mr.cooper69]

They are the same, but the nomenclature on "3,7 keto dhea" is quite wrong as aaron pointed out. Should be 3-desoxy,7-keto dhea.

 

[Bry17]

They are the same, but the nomenclature on "3,7 keto dhea" is quite wrong as aaron pointed out. Should be 3-desoxy,7-keto dhea.

i may sound like a smart ass here, and forgive me cooper if i do but that's also "technically" a misnomer. It's just easier to say that version. What it should more accurately be is 3-deoxy-delta-3-7-keto-dhea. we can't forget to account for the double bond from C3-C4.

It's kind of like how people call Phera "DMT" when that's also kind of a misnomer. "desoxymethyltestosterone"(if we're referring to loss of 3-oxygen) would actually more accurately be 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-en. Deoxy is a loose term though, and can mean many things (not just loss of keto/hydroxy functionality)

That name has always bothered me(people will inevitably use it though), and I was unsure if you (et al.) were aware of that or not.

 

[mr.cooper69]

i may sound like a smart ass here, and forgive me cooper if i do but that's also "technically" a misnomer. It's just easier to say that version. What it should more accurately be is 3-deoxy-delta-3-7-keto-dhea. we can't forget to account for the double bond from C3-C4.

It's kind of like how people call Phera "DMT" when that's also kind of a misnomer. "desoxymethyltestosterone"(if we're referring to loss of 3-oxygen) would actually more accurately be 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-en. Deoxy is a loose term though, and can mean many things (not just loss of keto/hydroxy functionality)

That name has always bothered me, and I was unsure if you (et al.) were aware of that or not.

I was aware, and you're right, technically that name is correct. But it opens up the door for ambiguity, which a lesser company (certainly not AN) could capitalize on by using an ingredient that's accurate on the label but not the ingredient used in studies.

It's actually not terribly easy to get a pure synthesis on this compound, so minutia like this can matter

 

[toddmuelheim]

i may sound like a smart ass here, and forgive me cooper if i do but that's also "technically" a misnomer. It's just easier to say that version. What it should more accurately be is 3-deoxy-delta-3-7-keto-dhea. we can't forget to account for the double bond from C3-C4.

It's kind of like how people call Phera "DMT" when that's also kind of a misnomer. "desoxymethyltestosterone"(if we're referring to loss of 3-oxygen) would actually more accurately be 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-en. Deoxy is a loose term though, and can mean many things (not just loss of keto/hydroxy functionality)

That name has always bothered me(people will inevitably use it though), and I was unsure if you (et al.) were aware of that or not.

What's with the dash between the three and the seven?

 

[mr.cooper69]

What's with the dash between the three and the seven?

It's what we call a comma

 

[infraredline]

Ok cool, now would arimistane be a suitable ai to use in pct?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Ok cool, now would arimistane be a suitable ai to use in pct?

As a standalone? Clinical is always preferred

 

[Bry17]

I was aware, and you're right, technically that name is correct. But it opens up the door for ambiguity, which a lesser company (certainly not AN) could capitalize on by using an ingredient that's accurate on the label but not the ingredient used in studies.It's actually not terribly easy to get a pure synthesis on this compound, so minutia like this can matter

I had a feeling you were. And thanks for the clarification.

What's with the dash between the three and the seven?

"delta-3" denotes the location of the double bond from carbon three to carbon four and the "7" indicates the position where a ketone is (C7). The dash is used to separate them so it can be read more clearly.

 

[infraredline]

As a standalone? Clinical is always preferred

No as your ai in your pct in addition to your serm, avenacosoides from increasing free test, libido support, and d-aspartic acid.

 

[toddmuelheim]

I had a feeling you were. And thanks for the clarification."delta-3" denotes the location of the double bond from carbon three to carbon four and the "7" indicates the position of the ketone (C7). The dash is used to separate them so it can be read more clearly.

I think cooper picked up what I was putting down, unless we are both missing something. I figured since we were being nitpicky, we should do it according to the rules.

 

[mr.cooper69]

No as your ai in your pct in addition to your serm, avenacosoides from increasing free test, libido support, and d-aspartic acid.

Then yes, it works great in PCT

 

[Bry17]

I think cooper picked up what I was putting down, unless we are both missing something. I figured since we were being nitpicky, we should do it according to the rules.

according to IUPAC standards delta-[#],[#] would indicate that there are two double bonds. So if it looked like delta-3,7-keto one might misinterpret that for two double bonds (at C3 and C7)

because the ketone is a separate group a dash is used. regardless, I was only trying to clear things up. I would think people would rather learn more accurate terms rather than nicknames.

 

[Bry17]

according to IUPAC standards delta-[#],[#] would indicate that there are two double bonds.

example by random google:

delta-4,9,11-trienic steroids

In this case it's delta-[#],[#],[#]

^http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7017853

 

[toddmuelheim]

example by random google:

In this case it's delta-[#],[#],[#]

^http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7017853

It shouldn't be a dash, why would you continue to argue this? If you think it is ambiguous, use one of the other naming methods.

 

[Bry17]

It shouldn't be a dash, why would you continue to argue this? If you think it is ambiguous, use one of the other naming methods.

Edit: apologies

 

[toddmuelheim]

you clearly don't get it. thread is now about dashes vs commas.

whatever bro

Dude I'm just orgo-trolling you. On an unrelated note what are your thoughts on CellTech? I heard it gives steroid like gains.

 

[infraredline]

Dude I'm just orgo-trolling you. On an unrelated note what are your thoughts on CellTech? I heard it gives steroid like gains.

Dude dat there cell tech is what all the ifbb pros take lol

 

[Dr.Veritas]

I was aware, and you're right, technically that name is correct. But it opens up the door for ambiguity, which a lesser company (certainly not AN) could capitalize on by using an ingredient that's accurate on the label but not the ingredient used in studies.

It's actually not terribly easy to get a pure synthesis on this compound, so minutia like this can matter

Agreed, good way to look at the subtle differences