OTC pct/test booster - AI or no AI?
- 08-01-2013, 06:09 AM
OTC pct/test booster - AI or no AI?
Can someone tell me,
I was on a daa supplement for 12 days on/off/on/off, saw no benefit, so moved onto another, Alri BAM, saw some gains but felt my oestrogen was too low when stacked with (libido disappeared within 24 hours until I ceased usage (I proceeded to take a packet of stak every few days instead)
I got some (plan to run for 6 weeks) which contains resveratrol (As did the DAA and theres an AI is in animal stak) Im advised I need a mini 2 week pct afterwards - Originally I was going to do a bottle of but should I go for a pct product that doesn’t contain an AI? Im concerned ive been using an AI for too long (14 weeks by the time id take it) . I love it for the libido boosting, its unmatched! Or is it not a problem, as these have been very different products used over the last few months?
- 08-01-2013, 09:07 AM
Dermacrine is DHEA mainly right? Last time I checked, DHEA supplementation doesn't really boost test... think that it does have body comp effects though. Don't think you're really going to need a PCT for this stuff.
08-01-2013, 11:03 AM
BPS advise, a 6 week run will need a 'small pct'
Im going to go with BPS Endosurge, no AI but great natty test boost
08-01-2013, 11:06 AM
08-01-2013, 11:18 AM
As with something like this, I would recommend a cycle. As generic as I can make it, finish a bottle, take a couple weeks off, see how you feel.
I like to try and cycle things together, like using a test booster with Tribulus. Libido always seems to be increased, and I feel I am gaining some size and strength with it. What I like to do is always keeping Tribulus in is cycle between a few test booster products. This also depends on how close to a contest I am too.
The three products I like the most and have been using for a while now is iForce Nutrition Reversitol V2, Testabolan V2 and Tropinol XP, and as stated earlier also keeping in Tribulus.
The key I think is using the Reversitol V2 which helps to lower estrogen levels. Which can inhibit muscle growth, lower libido, and cause fat retention.
iForce Nutrition Anabolics Minion Member
iTrain. iCompete. iDominate
iForce Nutrition -www.iForceNutrition.com
08-01-2013, 11:22 AM
I'm thinking, I recall that what may possibly happen with DHEA in men is that it will convert into estrogen, so maybe that's the reason why an AI/PCT is suggested OP?
08-01-2013, 11:39 AM
and to quote:
The major risk with Dermacrine is suppression of HPTA; forget about suppressing DHEA. Even Eric agrees that LH values have come down drastically once testosterone levels went above baseline. That's why he recommends using the sustain afterward as a "post cycle therapy" for the Dermacrine. Basically the product is too strong of a prohormone. The study that he presented me with shows the test subjects having their Testosterone levels above baseline within 5 days of application of only 50mg/day of DHEA gel; therefore, dropping LH drastically. How about using the Dermacrine for the recommended four weeks??? ... might as well rub the old AndroGel packs on.. lol
I guess there's a huge difference between taking a 25mg orally vs. rubbing the same amount on one's skin. My understanding now is that the anzymes on the skin will convert the DHEA to testosterone, estrogen, etc.. too efficiently. That's why I see similarity to rubbing androgel on which is basically full blown HRT.
At this point I'm thinking I should just select the safe route and do what Dr. John has suggested to me in the first place and just take my LEF 25-50mg/day of oral DHEA... This will provide a very slow build up and avoid the huge jump dermacrine promises coupled with an HPTA shutdown. I just can't afford monkeying around with my HPTA at this point... lol
Or; I may do 5 days of Dermacrine at half the recommended dose and leave it alone; then do blood work a month later.
I'm still undecided.. Any valid input appreciated...
Here's the study:
Effects of transdermal application of DHEA on the levels of steroids, gonadotropins and lipids in men.
In order to ascertain the kinetics of absorption and metabolism of transdermally administered dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), 10 men 29-72 years old (mean 52.4+/-14.5) received 50 mg DHEA/day in a gel applied onto the skin of the abdomen for 5 consecutive days. The objective was to establish the extent to which DHEA influences the levels of gonadotropins, sex hormone-binding globulin and lipids. It was found that DHEA is well absorbed and rapidly metabolized to its sulfate (DHEAS), androstenedione, and consequently to testosterone and estradiol. The DHEA levels that markedly increased after the first doses gradually declined already during the application, and this decline proceeded even after it was discontinued, reaching levels significantly lower than the original ones. On the other hand, the levels of DHEA metabolites (with the exception of DHEAS) rose during the application and reached values significantly higher than the basal ones within 5 weeks. This effect was accompanied by significantly decreased levels of LH. The serum levels of lipids, namely of cholesterol (both HDL and LDL cholesterol), triglycerides, apolipoproteins A-I and B and lipoprotein(a) after DHEA application were not changed significantly, and the atherogenic index (AI) remained unaltered. However, some correlations between hormones and lipids were found. Negative correlations concerned the following indices: DHEA/Lp(a); DHEAS/cholesterol; DHEA, DHEAS, testosterone/TG; testosterone/AI. On the other hand, LH, FSH/cholesterol, FSH, SHBG/LDL cholesterol, FSH/Apo B, Lp(a) correlated positively. It can be concluded that transdermal short-time application of DHEA results in a decrease of endogenous DHEA after finishing the treatment, with a parallel marked increase in the levels of sex hormones. Using this application protocol, exogenous DHEA neither altered the lipid spectrum, nor did it influence the atherogenic index.
PMID: 11252535 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
08-01-2013, 11:55 AM
08-08-2013, 04:13 PM
08-08-2013, 07:35 PM
An AI is definitely beneficial regardless of whether or not it is needed, as it further elevates the T:E ratio. Erase is pretty much the best oral OTC AI on the market
08-08-2013, 09:01 PM
If you decide to give DAA another shot, stack it with Erase and Inhibit-P. Would be a great 12 week run.
08-08-2013, 10:04 PM
Usp Test Powder or Purus D-Pol stacked with Nolvadren XT for 8 weeks would be a killer stack!
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