help w/weight loss advice for chubby friend

[rphash49]

Ok I have a friend at work that is constantly asking me to help them set up on a clean diet and workout program but he is also inquiring on supplementation assistance. I'm a pretty firm believer that you have to get your diet and work out routine in check before going to supplements or they will be pointless to take. That being said he seems pretty motivated to use supplements and I'd rather give solid advise then for him to take something that will put too much stress on his body.

His stats(guessing on some of this):
Age low 40s
Height 5'9
Weight: guessing north of 230
High bf%
Very stressful job
Wife and kids

He told me that his doctor said he is very healthy as far as pb, cholesterol etc. That being said what would be a good non stimulant weight loss supp for this person?

 

[aaronuconn]

Like you said, let him get his diet and training in lone first before he looks towards supplements.

 

[rphash49]

Like you said, let him get his diet and training in lone first before he looks towards supplements.

Yep I already said that above thanks.....

 

[rphash49]

Only thing I've used in the past few years is alphamine which cuts me up between cycles but I personally don't want to recommend a stimulant to someone as overweight as he is. Any recommendations?

 

[kissdadookie]

Like you said, let him get his diet and training in lone first before he looks towards supplements.

Agreed. Like to add, not only get diet and training in line first and foremost but stick with it for awhile and THEN look into supplementation.

Only thing I've used in the past few years is alphamine which cuts me up between cycles but I personally don't want to recommend a stimulant to someone as overweight as he is. Any recommendations?

Supps are not going to do anything other than maybe give some placebo confidence boost at this point for your friend, seriously.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

you could let him try TT-33, its non stim fat burner. mind if I ask why non stim?

 

[DanaeZ82]

Diet is KEY first and foremost. Get that together then we'll talk.

 

[harbonah]

I would tell him to stick with staples first...

Creatine, Fish oil, protein powder, and maybe pop some caffeine" I know you said stim free but come on does he skip coffee also?"

 

[DanaeZ82]

Of course he can have coffee. He doesn't even need all of what you mentioned. Creatine will only hold water which will in turn make him believe he is not losing weight. I would say no to the creatine.

 

[toddmuelheim]

Give him tic tacs and tell him he's beta testing the newest fat loss supp from whatever company. If he's 5'9, a fat 230 and dead set on supplements, knee jerk reaction is that he wants the easy way out. Throw in some decent protein and teach him how to make pudding, pancakes, waffles, etc. Supps are great, but it sounds like he needs to learn a bit of hard work first.

 

[DanaeZ82]

Give him tic tacs and tell him he's beta testing the newest fat loss supp from whatever company. If he's 5'9, a fat 230 and dead set on supplements, knee jerk reaction is that he wants the easy way out. Throw in some decent protein and teach him how to make pudding, pancakes, waffles, etc. Supps are great, but it sounds like he needs to learn a bit of hard work first.

lol Right on the money Todd!!

 

[harbonah]

Of course he can have coffee. He doesn't even need all of what you mentioned. Creatine will only hold water which will in turn make him believe he is not losing weight. I would say no to the creatine.

He is trying to get his diet and work routine in check as the first poster stated. Creatine does not only cause you to hold water it does have other physiological benefits.

Creatine supplementation enhances muscular performance during high-intensity resistance exercise.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9216554

Effect of creatine supplementation and resistance-exercise training on muscle insulin-like growth factor in young adults.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18708688

Long-term creatine intake is beneficial to muscle performance during resistance training.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9390981

Effects of creatine supplementation on muscle power, endurance, and sprint performance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11828245

 

[DanaeZ82]

If you notice all your links are to HIGH INTENSITY, YOUNG, ENDURANCE training. He is NOT there yet.

If he wants to take it, fine, have him take it. I was just stating my personal opinion and results on Creatine.

 

[veaderko]

I have had a few friends like that too. I tell them that they need to try and go 1 month of strict dieting so they understand that supplements are just that, supplements. Most of the time they insist on just taking stuff or they already are since they have been trying to lose weight and get in better shape but are lacking something. 9 time out of 10 its nutrition. So here is what I do for my friends/clients:

Nutrition plan set to follow the training program I put them on.

Add a thermo, I prefer and use iForce Nutrition Dexaprine XR.
Starting off with 1 capsule in the morning upon waking up.

Quality whey protein which I use iForce Nutrition Protean. Love all the flavors, and the macros fit perfect. Not to mention I also give them various dessert recipes that I use with the Protean to curve those cravings.

Finally a sleep aid. If they prefer to train in the morning, I just use ZMA which I feel everyone could benefit from. iForce does a great job of having a good ratio of B6, Magnesium and Zinc. If they train at night, I advise something to help a little more including the ZMA which is Lights Out from iForce.

All of these products I use myself, so I can stand by them and help my friends/clients use them correctly.

 

[harbonah]

If you notice all your links are to HIGH INTENSITY, YOUNG, ENDURANCE training. He is NOT there yet.

If he wants to take it, fine, have him take it. I was just stating my personal opinion and results on Creatine.

Please do not take this as me picking a fight I simply prefer studies and scientific responses over non science based opinions.

There are many health benefits to creatine those were just the first few I have in my notes. It may hold water in some I see that point, but you are minimizing the many health benefits by stating it will only make him hold water. An unhealthy individual should start by trying to become healthy.

Also in my notes...creatine has many more health benefits then I think most realize even for instance in patients with congestive heart failure. < not so health men.

Creatine supplementation improves muscle strength in patients with congestive heart failure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16599263

The effect of dietary creatine supplementation on skeletal muscle metabolism in congestive heart failure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9597411

 

[harbonah]

I have had a few friends like that too. I tell them that they need to try and go 1 month of strict dieting so they understand that supplements are just that, supplements. Most of the time they insist on just taking stuff or they already are since they have been trying to lose weight and get in better shape but are lacking something. 9 time out of 10 its nutrition. So here is what I do for my friends/clients:

Nutrition plan set to follow the training program I put them on.

Add a thermo, I prefer and use iForce Nutrition Dexaprine XR.
Starting off with 1 capsule in the morning upon waking up.

Quality whey protein which I use iForce Nutrition Protean. Love all the flavors, and the macros fit perfect. Not to mention I also give them various dessert recipes that I use with the Protean to curve those cravings.

Finally a sleep aid. If they prefer to train in the morning, I just use ZMA which I feel everyone could benefit from. iForce does a great job of having a good ratio of B6, Magnesium and Zinc. If they train at night, I advise something to help a little more including the ZMA which is Lights Out from iForce.

All of these products I use myself, so I can stand by them and help my friends/clients use them correctly.

I myself fell victim to the idea of trying to out train and over supplement a bad diet for the first few months back after years away from bodybuilding....

 

[veaderko]

I myself fell victim to the idea of trying to out train and over supplement a bad diet for the first few months back after years away from bodybuilding....

Yeah so did I. When i first started out I tried to supplement my way to loosing fat by taking a thermo. Problem is that pizza and beer didn't help me get the body I am currently proud to have now.

 

[toddmuelheim]

Yeah so did I. When i first started out I tried to supplement my way to loosing fat by taking a thermo. Problem is that pizza and beer didn't help me get the body I am currently proud to have now.

Exactly. Plus, if you throw everything and the kitchen sink at the problem right off the bat, what do you have left down the line? Give the guy a thermo off the bat and he'll bitch about sweating within a week and then complain that his abs aren't showing.

 

[harbonah]

Yeah so did I. When i first started out I tried to supplement my way to loosing fat by taking a thermo. Problem is that pizza and beer didn't help me get the body I am currently proud to have now.

Exactly, I kept trying to up my cardio and increase the fat burners instead of fixing my diet... The worst part is I knew better when I was doing it also.. to many years away from bodybuilding leads to some bad habits.

 

[harbonah]

I can say after fixing my diet that I did toss the kitchen sink against the problem, So I could get on stage as fast as I could but meh I am the all or nothing kind of person...

 

[toddmuelheim]

I can say after fixing my diet that I did toss the kitchen sink against the problem, So I could get on stage as fast as I could but meh I am the all or nothing kind of person...

Stage ready kitchen sink throwing=logical
Fat guy asking for crutches before he tries to walk kitchen sink throwing= :-(

 

[harbonah]

Stage ready kitchen sink throwing=logical
Fat guy asking for crutches before he tries to walk kitchen sink throwing= :-(

LOL I started as a fat guy it took a bit to get stage ready....lol

 

[dkgreene88]

I know you stated he wants a non stim. But I found taking half a pill of DexaprineXR by iForce in the beginning of the day helped my friend Michael lose some weight. Not as fast as if he took the recommended dose but he was very stim intolerant.


He also did cardio at lunch 3-4 times a week. His diet was pretty weak though

 

[rphash49]

Thank you to everyone that posted exactly what I already said in the original post lmao. Yes diet is the most important part if not 90%+. Workout routine and sleep also are imperative in weight loss and overall health. I get asked daily how I do it or how do I get a six pack or how do I get in shape etc and I always say the same thing. #1 you must eat right...... I know it, I live it and I preach it so now that is out of the way.... He was a college athlete 15+ years ago so he understands hard work and I guarantee you he is motivated. I'm not wanting to recommend a stim supplement because the guy is really out of shape and with the hard work he is putting in I don't want the guy to have a heart attack. He Is going to use a supplement if I like it or not. Ok best recommendation so far is tic tacs. Can anyone top that lol

 

[kissdadookie]

Thank you to everyone that posted exactly what I already said in the original post lmao. Yes diet is the most important part if not 90%+. Workout routine and sleep also are imperative in weight loss and overall health. I get asked daily how I do it or how do I get a six pack or how do I get in shape etc and I always say the same thing. #1 you must eat right...... I know it, I live it and I preach it so now that is out of the way.... He was a college athlete 15+ years ago so he understands hard work and I guarantee you he is motivated. I'm not wanting to recommend a stim supplement because the guy is really out of shape and with the hard work he is putting in I don't want the guy to have a heart attack. He Is going to use a supplement if I like it or not. Ok best recommendation so far is tic tacs. Can anyone top that lol

My question is, since you state that you've been through the thick of it already and understand what is required to get in shape, then you should also be well aware that there's really no supplement that your friend can take right now that would really give any appreciable effect. So with that in mind, why recommend him supplements which would not have any appreciable effects for him this early in the game? It's practically like having your friend part ways with his money in exchange for placebo TBH.

 

[rphash49]

My question is, since you state that you've been through the thick of it already and understand what is required to get in shape, then you should also be well aware that there's really no supplement that your friend can take right now that would really give any appreciable effect. So with that in mind, why recommend him supplements which would not have any appreciable effects for him this early in the game? It's practically like having your friend part ways with his money in exchange for placebo TBH.

That's why I posted the question. If the answer at the end of the day is that they are a waste of money I'm fine with that and I will advise him to stick to the training and diet plan we laid out. I've used multiple products to build muscle and can advise to it. I don't have experience with weight loss supps because I don't use them which is why I'm asking.

 

[kissdadookie]

That's why I posted the question. If the answer at the end of the day is they are a waste of money I'm fine with that and I will advise him to stick the the training and diet plan we laid out. I've used multiple products to build muscle and can advise to it. I don't have experience with weight loss supps because I don't use them which is why I'm asking.

Fat burners, thyroid boosters, GDAs, etc. could help but for your friend right now, there's not going to be much appreciable effects thus I would suggest not to have him waste money on these supplements right now. All his progress are going to be coming from his training and diet right now as well as well into the future. The supps will be something to look into later on when your friend actually gets into shape in which he may get appreciable results from the supplements.

Be a good friend and just lay it out straight to your friend

 

[rphash49]

Fat burners, thyroid boosters, GDAs, etc. could help but for your friend right now, there's not going to be much appreciable effects thus I would suggest not to have him waste money on these supplements right now. All his progress are going to be coming from his training and diet right now as well as well into the future. The supps will be something to look into later on when your friend actually gets into shape in which he may get appreciable results from the supplements.

Be a good friend and just lay it out straight to your friend

Sounds good thanks

 

[DanaeZ82]

Please do not take this as me picking a fight I simply prefer studies and scientific responses over non science based opinions.

There are many health benefits to creatine those were just the first few I have in my notes. It may hold water in some I see that point, but you are minimizing the many health benefits by stating it will only make him hold water. An unhealthy individual should start by trying to become healthy.

Also in my notes...creatine has many more health benefits then I think most realize even for instance in patients with congestive heart failure. < not so health men.

Creatine supplementation improves muscle strength in patients with congestive heart failure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16599263

The effect of dietary creatine supplementation on skeletal muscle metabolism in congestive heart failure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9597411

I'm sorry mine wasn't a "science based opinion". I was stating off of my experience in taking it. To each his own. I don't feel this person is ready for all of this yet is all I'm saying.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

you said hes healthy as far as the dr reported. good blood pressure and cholesterol. I believe as long as hes not on any medication the best thing to do is get him a stimed fat burner. just follow directions on the label, he will thank u. plus he will actually feel the product wich is more likely to keep him motivated thus he will see some progress. a little bit of fat burner and a whole lot of placebo can go along way to getting into shape.

 

[MuscleGauge1]

First of all I would like to say it takes a lot of effort to post about your issues. I wish you all the best. I may have a solution for you. TrimDownAdvanced is a fat burner that works really well. This plus a good diet and exercise program and proper nutrition may be just what you need to succeed. Good luck

 

[rphash49]

First of all I would like to say it takes a lot of effort to post about your issues. I wish you all the best. I may have a solution for you. TrimDownAdvanced is a fat burner that works really well. This plus a good diet and exercise program and proper nutrition may be just what you need to succeed. Good luck

Actually it was really no effort at all. I even did it with one hand using my mobile. You didn't even read the original post did you lol. Anyway I'm going to stick to what I originally told my friend and that he needs to focus on diet, exercise and sleep.

 

[toddmuelheim]

First of all I would like to say it takes a lot of effort to post about your issues. I wish you all the best. I may have a solution for you. TrimDownAdvanced is a fat burner that works really well. This plus a good diet and exercise program and proper nutrition may be just what you need to succeed. Good luck

Would anavar stack well with that?

 

[aaronuconn]

Actually it was really no effort at all. I even did it with one hand using my mobile. You didn't even read the original post did you lol. Anyway I'm going to stick to what I originally told my friend and that he needs to focus on diet, exercise and sleep.

One handed typing on my phone takes me forever. Teach me your ways.

 

[rphash49]

One handed typing on my phone takes me forever. Teach me your ways.

Ok you caught me I used both hands. I was just trying to be a dick

 

[wtrankin]

I've seen success with a combination of:
1) detoxing (try a good detox program usually 20+ days of just fruits/vegetables/protein bars etc.)
2) regular weight/cardio mix
3) raspberry ketone
4) healthy diet
- green coffee extract is pretty good too.

 

[toddmuelheim]

I've seen success with a combination of:
1) detoxing (try a good detox program usually 20+ days of just fruits/vegetables/protein bars etc.)
2) regular weight/cardio mix
3) raspberry ketone
4) healthy diet
- green coffee extract is pretty good too.

Face meet palm

 

[mr.cooper69]

Face meet palm

Indeed

 

[rphash49]

I've seen success with a combination of:
1) detoxing (try a good detox program usually 20+ days of just fruits/vegetables/protein bars etc.)
2) regular weight/cardio mix
3) raspberry ketone
4) healthy diet
- green coffee extract is pretty good too.

^lol at this! Detox with protein bars....

 

[veaderko]

^lol at this! Detox with protein bars....

Man I have been doing it wrong this whole time. I need to try a detox, especially if protein bars are involved

 

[kissdadookie]

I've seen success with a combination of:
1) detoxing (try a good detox program usually 20+ days of just fruits/vegetables/protein bars etc.)
2) regular weight/cardio mix
3) raspberry ketone
4) healthy diet
- green coffee extract is pretty good too.

Wut? at:

 

[harbonah]

I've seen success with a combination of:
1) detoxing (try a good detox program usually 20+ days of just fruits/vegetables/protein bars etc.)
2) regular weight/cardio mix
3) raspberry ketone
4) healthy diet
- green coffee extract is pretty good too.

I hear you can drop a lot of weight fast with an enema just say..:footinmouth:

 

[Loudy Rowdy]

Ok I have a friend at work that is constantly asking me to help them set up on a clean diet and workout program but he is also inquiring on supplementation assistance. I'm a pretty firm believer that you have to get your diet and work out routine in check before going to supplements or they will be pointless to take. That being said he seems pretty motivated to use supplements and I'd rather give solid advise then for him to take something that will put too much stress on his body.

His stats(guessing on some of this):
Age low 40s
Height 5'9
Weight: guessing north of 230
High bf%
Very stressful job
Wife and kids

He told me that his doctor said he is very healthy as far as pb, cholesterol etc. That being said what would be a good non stimulant weight loss supp for this person?

I want to take the easy route and just recommend DexaprineXR + AlphaT2 stack. But first thing first, help your friend get his diet/training in order. Another thing and to make sure that he is getting enough sleep (cortisol issues due to high stress from his job). I know its beating a dead horse but the last thing we want is for him to have a crappy diet/training while on supplements and quit because the supplements werent working.

 

[LivingStrongE]

I've seen success with a combination of:
1) detoxing (try a good detox program usually 20+ days of just fruits/vegetables/protein bars etc.)
2) regular weight/cardio mix
3) raspberry ketone
4) healthy diet
- green coffee extract is pretty good too.

Detoxing using protein bars?.

Diet is key to fat loss along with a good training regiment. If you only put effort into only one then the other is useless. I used Dexaprine XR to help curb my appetite, I split my dosage in half throughout the day.

 

[good2Badawg]

Im going against the grain somewhat. I have a friend who WAS much more overweight than yours. He has lost around 70lbs in close to a yr & a half. His diet is so-so, certainly not great. He is very hardheaded. However, he does stick to the gym, mainly cardio but weights some. He takes suppps like crazy. (im all the time telling him be needs a stim break, cafeful what u stack, etc). He gives too much credit to supps imo. But, I would reccommend the supps to him, but first make him commit to the gym at least 5 days a week. Add some alphamine, oep, or dexaprine, etc. and then a non stim to help out maybe even a gda. If he can lose 15-20 lbs his motivation and confidence wi go through the roof. Get him a good vitamin, and overtime help him iron out his diet. First thing being only H2O to drink, nothing else. Then work on the other small steps. Just my 2¢ based on a similar situation

 

[dkgreene88]

I definitely agree with this! Ive never heard of detoxing with protein bars but who knows...

Dexaprine or DexaprineXR would definitely help curb the appetite and with some good cardio sessions you could lose quite a bit of fat!

 

[kissdadookie]

Im going against the grain somewhat. I have a friend who WAS much more overweight than yours. He has lost around 70lbs in close to a yr & a half. His diet is so-so, certainly not great. He is very hardheaded. However, he does stick to the gym, mainly cardio but weights some. He takes suppps like crazy. (im all the time telling him be needs a stim break, cafeful what u stack, etc). He gives too much credit to supps imo. But, I would reccommend the supps to him, but first make him commit to the gym at least 5 days a week. Add some alphamine, oep, or dexaprine, etc. and then a non stim to help out maybe even a gda. If he can lose 15-20 lbs his motivation and confidence wi go through the roof. Get him a good vitamin, and overtime help him iron out his diet. First thing being only H2O to drink, nothing else. Then work on the other small steps. Just my 2¢ based on a similar situation

Basically those supps in that situation acted as placebo. LoL. Not to knock placebo effects, good placebo effects are actually very effective.

 

[good2Badawg]

Basically those supps in that situation acted as placebo. LoL. Not to knock placebo effects, good placebo effects are actually very effective.

I wohld say this is certainly true to a degree. But not the complete story. But thanks for your uninformed opinion since youve never met the guy.

 

[kissdadookie]

I wohld say this is certainly true to a degree. But not the complete story. But thanks for your uninformed opinion since youve never met the guy.

Again, what we are concerned about is if supplements would have a perceivable impact on body comp with all other variables UNCHANGED. Your friend started working out and that is a HUGE change in variables and he also took supplements. You're essentially implying that the supplements played a notable tangible role outside of placebo for your friends weight loss. How do you assume this when at the end of the day, the BIGGEST changed variable is the increased physical activity? If you don't change your diet but do dramatically increase physical activity levels, you will lose a good amount of weight relatively quickly. That is a fact, has nothing to do with what supplements you are taking.

 

[cubsfan815]

I wouldn't say it's always placebo. I am extremely overweight, and suffer from what I believe to be a food addiction. Before I ever started working out I was 325lbs roughly. I started taking the old ephedra based products which would keep my from giving into my cravings. I used low carb/calorie restricted diets and went from 325-175 in a little over year and a half. Granted I was also unemployed, and going through a divorce, so I had all day to work out.

Once I hit 175, I wanted to bulk up. I started taking lots of supps/prohormones and worked my way to 240lbs. Then came stressful job, new relationship, eating all the foods I missed out on, and I found myself back at 320+. Only difference is I have a lot more muscle mass now.

I use supplements like Alphamine/Alpha T2 all the time. I know they won't magically make the fat disappear, but they do help curb my appetite/cravings, put me in good/relaxed mood, and keep me sweating.

In March I was 320, by end of May I was down to 298. I have just started restricting calories again this week, and will be keeping Alphamine/Alpha T2 in my system lol.