Senator calls for regulation in wake of USA today story

[De__eB]

And so it begins.

Wal-Mart suspends sales of Craze after USA TODAY report

End well this will not.

 

[aaronuconn]

Walmart first, the world next?

 

[Touey]

Noone EVER get in on the good foot for the breaking the NEWS before De__eB....Is the Walter Cronkite in Anabolic Minds

 

[De__eB]

Heh, just the title of the article...I get the vibe Wal Mart doesn't even sell much Craze...it's the Durbin speech that has me concerned.

 

[kbayne]

Didn't even know Wally World sold Craze.

 

[De__eB]

Didn't even know Wally World sold Craze.

They sell everything on their website a la Amazon.

 

[Touey]

They sell everything on their website a la Amazon.

Pulling on fast eddie for De__eB? NO.!.. luck out too for AM keeping in the vigil on shenanigans

 

[Spaniard]

And so it begins.

Wal-Mart suspends sales of Craze after USA TODAY report

End well this will not.

Eventually the supplement industry will be completely regulated.

 

[De__eB]

Eventually the supplement industry will be completely regulated.

But not until every supplement user is an SNS rep under the influence of Focus XT.

 

[JD261985]

News like this annoys the **** outta me. Having the word **** asterisked also annoys the **** outta me

 

[JudoJosh]

Eventually the supplement industry will be completely regulated.

Im probably alone in this statement but I actually have no problem with it being regulated

 

[Sean1332]

Im probably alone in this statement but I actually have no problem with it being regulated

Quality control purposes?

 

[DJBeanPole]

I read that entire article. Basically talked about the amphetamines found in Craze, but was moreso about the CEO of (then) Designer Supplements and how he was incarcerated for putting a pesticide into a weight loss pill... and then making Superdrol... sold the formula to another company... that company got sued by a guy who had liver damage because the label didn't warn of anything... then going on to form Driven Sports while making money off of royalties from Superdrol... creating Craze... etc. It was a good read.

 

[pyrobatt]

Eventually the supplement industry will be completely regulated.

Doesn't matter. If I can get amphetamines shipped to my house* not the analogs * then getting my hands on the ingredients I want shouldn't be hard.

 

[Spaniard]

Im probably alone in this statement but I actually have no problem with it being regulated

After I get my PA license I'll be writing Rx for supplements after the FDA takes the supp industry over so either way I'll be alright. It's a damn unfortunate thing when people feel the need to take advantage of their consumer base.

 

[De__eB]

Doesn't matter. If I can get amphetamines shipped to my house* not the analogs * then getting my hands on the ingredients I want shouldn't be hard.

Well yes, savvy users will always be able to get an ingredient they really want.

The issue is the average consumer and the significant price increases they're likely to see.

 

[Celorza]

Im probably alone in this statement but I actually have no problem with it being regulated

Hm...how can you be so ok with it? If the government starts they wont stop...they could go to the extent of banning every supplement that has ever contained a potentially dangerous (or harmless, depending how mad they are) side effect...They could take the mentality of: "It's our duty to protect Americans! Thus, we will take off the market ANY supplement we deem might give them the choice of freedom...the right to weigh their risks and rewards.

Or why...? I just wanna know really what's the reason you would be ok about it...

Quality control purposes?

Quality control is directly the control of error in mass production by reducing variance in the procedure of creation or provision of a service (alas talking concepts of 6-sigma distribution of error in the production of millions of items) , not what's deemed good or not. I would call it scrutiny power.

 

[mtinsideout]

Ephedra, DMAA, Dendrobium... Looks like any new stim is going to be highly scrutinized by the FDA from here on out.

 

[Celorza]

Ephedra, DMAA, Dendrobium... Looks like any new stim is going to be highly scrutinized by the FDA from here on out.

I understand where your anger is coming from...but did you know that they have tried to pass even bills for banning everything down to the point of us just having the choice of Vitamins? Ephedra was horrible, and Ephedrine is still readily available and cheap. DMAA...yeah that was a loss I can't deny it. Wasn't dendobrium the way they tried to mask that it actually is a synthetic stimulant? Just wondering.

 

[pyrobatt]

I understand where your anger is coming from...but did you know that they have tried to pass even bills for banning everything down to the point of us just having the choice of Vitamins? Ephedra was horrible, and Ephedrine is still readily available and cheap. DMAA...yeah that was a loss I can't deny it. Wasn't dendobrium the way they tried to mask that it actually is a synthetic stimulant? Just wondering.

Don't forget dnp,clen,and when testosterone was put on the class 3 list in 90 I believe.

Moral of story? As with other supplements people will always find a replacement. As for the "average user" they can do a quick Google seach and find it.

 

[mtinsideout]

I understand where your anger is coming from...but did you know that they have tried to pass even bills for banning everything down to the point of us just having the choice of Vitamins? Ephedra was horrible, and Ephedrine is still readily available and cheap. DMAA...yeah that was a loss I can't deny it. Wasn't dendobrium the way they tried to mask that it actually is a synthetic stimulant? Just wondering.

Eh I'm a little mad about DMAA lol... I'm just trying to understand the logic, as long as it is clearly on the label it should be good to go. I get the feeling that the FDA is going to use these as a tool to make supplement companies pay for there approval thus the cost of any supplement will go up.

 

[kissdadookie]

Eh I'm a little mad about DMAA lol... I'm just trying to understand the logic, as long as it is clearly on the label it should be good to go. I get the feeling that the FDA is going to use these as a tool to make supplement companies pay for there approval thus the cost of any supplement will go up.

From the sound of how the Senator presented the bill, the amendment is only requiring companies to register their products with the FDA and provide the full label info before the product can be placed on sale in the market. So it doesn't sound like an actual FDA regulation that requires the approval for new ingredients, just a registration of products along with the ingredients contained so that if a certain ingredient becomes an issue, they can trace it back to what products contains what ingredients.

 

[aaronuconn]

From the sound of how the Senator presented the bill, the amendment is only requiring companies to register their products with the FDA and provide the full label info before the product can be placed on sale in the market. So it doesn't sound like an actual FDA regulation that requires the approval for new ingredients, just a registration of products along with the ingredients contained so that if a certain ingredient becomes an issue, they can trace it back to what products contains what ingredients.

Sounds like it will take companies much longer to get products to market.

 

[mtinsideout]

Sounds like it will take companies much longer to get products to market.

If they have someone reviewing these labels that means the companies will have to pay for the approval. The cost of all supps would go up.

 

[De__eB]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/9527817/amphetamines-latest-concern-supplement-industry

ESPN is in on the issue now.

How soon until rushed legislation gets forced through congress even though the FDA has plenty of regulatory authority already, and no resources to use it fully.

 

[rob112]

Eh I'm a little mad about DMAA lol... I'm just trying to understand the logic, as long as it is clearly on the label it should be good to go. I get the feeling that the FDA is going to use these as a tool to make supplement companies pay for there approval thus the cost of any supplement will go up.

The problem is it isn't clear on the label. Dendrobium is not a stimulant, eth is. Eth is not on the label.

 

[johnnybeegood]

good to see our friend Patrick quoted in the espn article.

 

[aaronuconn]

The problem is it isn't clear on the label. Dendrobium is not a stimulant, eth is. Eth is not on the label.

I don't think we'll see Dendrobium get the boot from the FDA anyways.

 

[rob112]

I don't think we'll see Dendrobium get the boot from the FDA anyways.

I don't either bc that is DSHEA compliant.

Primaforce sells it in bulk now so some solo reviews will be interesting to say the least.

 

[kissdadookie]

I don't think we'll see Dendrobium get the boot from the FDA anyways.

Dendrobex people, Dendrobex

 

[De__eB]

Dendrobex people, Dendrobex

Dendrobex is just one companies proprietary tradename for dendrobium. Not sure what your point is?

 

[kissdadookie]

Dendrobex is just one companies proprietary tradename for dendrobium. Not sure what your point is?

Was just poking fun at it. Not claiming anything, heck, I still use Craze Used it this morning actually.

 

[TheSwanks]

I wish the FDA would give an equal sh!t about stuff that actually kills people like cigarettes

 

[JD261985]

I wish the FDA would give an equal sh!t about stuff that actually kills people like cigarettes

This

 

[blackjackcat]

This lady(Allison Young) PM'd me to interview about this story(she asked me via PM from another site). I told her if its a supplement bashing article, I have no interest. She never really did say what it was going to be about, but she gave me her email address and wanted me to give her my phone # and what was the best time to reach me, I never did.

 

[rob112]

This

I think you and swanks are missing the point. The do care as much about cigarettes...hence the numerous warnings on the label. There isn't an eth warning on the craze label...or even a mention of it being in there for that matter. That is the major problem.

If it was on there with warnings and dosage I personally wouldn't give a ****. I think people can take what ever the **** they want, including cigarettes.

 

[johnnybeegood]

i think people should be allowed to use meth, cocaine, heroin, etc if they so desire as well. eliminate the black market and tax the hell out of it. use the tax money for drug abuse treatment and education.

 

[TheSwanks]

If it was on there with warnings and dosage I personally wouldn't give a ****. I think people can take what ever the **** they want, including cigarettes.

This^^^

BUT that's not what they do with supplements. They either a) ban them or b) ban them from OTC purchased and only allow pharmaceutical companies to sell them.

Don't let the fda fool you into thinking they actually give a sh!t about your wellbeing. Lol honestly

 

[rob112]

This^^^

BUT that's not what they do with supplements. They either a) ban them or b) ban them from OTC purchased and only allow pharmaceutical companies to sell them.

Don't let the fda fool you into thinking they actually give a sh!t about your wellbeing. Lol honestly

I do agree...they do not truly care, and I am not sure I want them to. I'm like ghandi.

 

[kissdadookie]

This all comes back to the core of the issue now doesn't it? If big players in the industry can't be trusted enough to either put out honest labels or at least do more thorough QC (not saying that this is the case with the majority, but even just one big player getting caught with this problem and which then leads to big media field day, that's a big issue) and self regulation ends up being mostly reactive rather than proactive, what is the solution to the problem? If the answer is to have FDA regulate and govern more diligently, that creates the problem of getting products to market as well as pricing concerns. If the answer is to have tighter self regulation, which entity is going to be responsible for taking on the position?

 

[aaronuconn]

This all comes back to the core of the issue now doesn't it? If big players in the industry can't be trusted enough to either put out honest labels or at least do more thorough QC (not saying that this is the case with the majority, but even just one big player getting caught with this problem and which then leads to big media field day, that's a big issue) and self regulation ends up being mostly reactive rather than proactive, what is the solution to the problem? If the answer is to have FDA regulate and govern more diligently, that creates the problem of getting products to market as well as pricing concerns. If the answer is to have tighter self regulation, which entity is going to be responsible for taking on the position?

The answer is a bigger penalty.

Think SMU college football penalty in the 1980's big.

 

[kissdadookie]

The answer is a bigger penalty.

Think SMU college football penalty in the 1980's big.

One would think that bigger penalties would motivate better practices but there is the issue of the FDA actually having a pretty good amount of power as it is but the problem being that they do not have the resources for which they can carry out acting on the power they have.

Chicken and the egg dilemma?

 

[De__eB]

One would think that bigger penalties would motivate better practices but there is the issue of the FDA actually having a pretty good amount of power as it is but the problem being that they do not have the resources for which they can carry out acting on the power they have.

Chicken and the egg dilemma?

The FDA has every bit of legal authority necessary, but to fully implement that authority would cosr many many millions. And spending that much money regulating an industry most people see as unnecessary instead of just dropping the hammer on them is not something that seems likely.

 

[aaronuconn]

The FDA has every bit of legal authority necessary, but to fully implement that authority would cosr many many millions. And spending that much money regulating an industry most people see as unnecessary instead of just dropping the hammer on them is not something that seems likely.

How much do you estimate it cost Ron Kramer to get his Craze independently tested? Think of that amount for every batch of every product. Daunting number I'm sure.

 

[De__eB]

How much do you estimate it cost Ron Kramer to get his Craze independently tested? Think of that amount for every batch of every product. Daunting number I'm sure.

That amount is substantially less for repeat testing, from inside a company, with known identities and quantities.

If you're a manufacturer and you say 'Here's exactly what's supposed to be in this product, the exact quantities, and what specific compounds we're standardizing for' that's a lot easier and cheaper to do than 'Here's a product, and a proprietary blended label, can you figure out what's inside it'

Companies are already supposed to be doing batch testing of everything they make. That's the law.

 

[aaronuconn]

That amount is substantially less for repeat testing, from inside a company, with known identities and quantities.

If you're a manufacturer and you say 'Here's exactly what's supposed to be in this product, the exact quantities, and what specific compounds we're standardizing for' that's a lot easier and cheaper to do than 'Here's a product, and a proprietary blended label, can you figure out what's inside it'

Companies are already supposed to be doing batch testing of everything they make. That's the law.

Which it should be the law, but if the FDA does step in, I was insinuating it would be real expensive (like you mentioned in the bolded).

 

[De__eB]

Which it should be the law, but if the FDA does step in, I was insinuating it would be real expensive (like you mentioned in the bolded).

Yeah, but if the FDA puts that burden on the company and uses existing regulatory authority to say 'batch test your **** or we're putting an injunction on your sales', then companies can do it a lot cheaper than the FDA can.

The FDA also doesn't want to get into testing every product, because then they're on the legal hook for saying 'yes this product contains what it says on the label'

 

[TheSwanks]

Yeah, but if the FDA puts that burden on the company and uses existing regulatory authority to say 'batch test your **** or we're putting an injunction on your sales', then companies can do it a lot cheaper than the FDA can.

The FDA also doesn't want to get into testing every product, because then they're on the legal hook for saying 'yes this product contains what it says on the label'

Which is why they'll move everything to pharma because the regulations and enforcement infrastructure are already there.

I work around fda regs daily at my job. They exist solely as a source of fee and penalty revenue for the government. They do very little that can be truly characterized as action on behalf of the common good for the public.

Believe me.

 

[carpee]

Which is why they'll move everything to pharma because the regulations and enforcement infrastructure are already there.

....

Believe me.

bingo.

follow the money trail.

big pharma wants you to go to it for everything, including fish oil and vitamin c.