Acetyl l-carnitine v l-carnitine

[alphanik]

Can someone explain to me the difference between Acetyl l-carnitine and l-carnitine....

 

[thedarce]

ALCAR compared to? theres a few choices, PLCAR, LCLT, LCF.

 

[alphanik]

Hmm unsure,I went to buy some yesterday and I saw one labeled as l-carnitine and one labelled as acetyl l-carnitine...both the same brand,both in pill form

 

[heavylifter33]

What is your reason for buying carnitine? The simple form l-carnitine won't really do much for you. ALCAR is a great neuroprotectant and study-aid. Really helps with retention and focus.

 

[alphanik]

As a fat mobiliser..so my body taps into fat cells as an energy source...

 

[RecompMan]

What is your reason for buying carnitine? The simple form l-carnitine won't really do much for you. ALCAR is a great neuroprotectant and study-aid. Really helps with retention and focus.

Alcar also shown to reduce leptin resistance ...

 

[ericool007]

propinyl carnitine and carnitine tartrate
(PLC) (LCLT)

 

[JudoJosh]

ALCAR = acetic acid bonded to carnitine and it is what I would recommend over l-carnitine

 

[Spaniard]

Check out SNS ALCAR man it's more than likely cheaper than what you were going to pick up in the store

 

[aaronuconn]

As a fat mobiliser..so my body taps into fat cells as an energy source...

Carnitine won't do much, if anything, for fat loss (directly).

 

[De__eB]

Carnitine won't do much, if anything, for fat loss (directly).

^This

Carnitine will not effectively increase fat burning unless you're elderly or deficient (via vegetarianism/veganism, low dietary intake of high carnitine sources such as meats, etc...). If you are old or deficient however, the effects are fairly significant.

ALCAR is still great for its nootropic purposes though, and does have some performance benefits which could indirectly help with fat loss.

 

[Celorza]

^This

Carnitine will not effectively increase fat burning unless you're elderly or deficient (via vegetarianism/veganism, low dietary intake of high carnitine sources such as meats, etc...). If you are old or deficient however, the effects are fairly significant.

ALCAR is still great for its nootropic purposes though, and does have some performance benefits which could indirectly help with fat loss.

PLCAR will however (though to a minor degree) affect fat loss positively...and it so happens we have it so cheap on the web for the OP to dose it on an empty stomach!

 

[aaronuconn]

Does SNS plan to keep PLCAR around indefinitely?

 

[Celorza]

Does SNS plan to keep PLCAR around indefinitely?

The higher ups would like to see it being moved more that's for sure ^_^ besides it is really useful!!

 

[aaronuconn]

The higher ups would like to see it being moved more that's for sure ^_^ besides it is really useful!!

Just asking because I thought at one time you guys were thinking of stopping production.

 

[De__eB]

Just asking because I thought at one time you guys were thinking of stopping production.

I would imagine PLCAR is a relatively tough sell due to the marketing of GPLC, even though I wouldn't anticipate a great deal of difference between bonded GPLC and PLCAR + Glycine.

 

[USPlabsRep]

Carnitine won't do much, if anything, for fat loss (directly).

Why?

 

[USPlabsRep]

What is your reason for buying carnitine? The simple form l-carnitine won't really do much for you. ALCAR is a great neuroprotectant and study-aid. Really helps with retention and focus.

why?

 

[USPlabsRep]

^This

Carnitine will not effectively increase fat burning unless you're elderly or deficient (via vegetarianism/veganism, low dietary intake of high carnitine sources such as meats, etc...).

.

you sure?

 

[Spaniard]

you sure?

I'm not entirely sure but I think they're referring specifically to LCLT and what it's main beneficial use is.

 

[jimbuick]

I feel like there is about to be a large amount of beneficial info dropped in this thread.

 

[De__eB]

you sure?

Pretty sure, studies are relatively consistent on that.

There was one on young trained adults showing no change in fat loss. Meanwhile studies in the elderly do show an increase in fat loss.

The potential for anecdotal "fat loss" benefit in younger athletes that could be seen would likely be a byproduct of additional exercise capacity.

Which is of course positive and makes carnitine a good ingredient to supplement, but from a strict perspective to call something a 'fat burner' it should be able to increase fat loss with other variables being the same. (E.g. ephedrine or higenamine will increase metabolism while maintaining the same activity level)

Meanwhile ingredients that increase the potential for fat loss while not directly causing fat loss should be categorized differently.

Or at the very least, the distinction is important and needs to be made for the sake of expectations and having your fitness/diet/nutrition plans setup optimally.

The ambiguity of MOA given in many companies fat burners is probably the second biggest cause of disappointment in fat burning supplement (first being unrealistic expectations of miracle fat loss)

--

 

[Celorza]

Pretty sure, studies are relatively consistent on that.

There was one on young trained adults showing no change in fat loss. Meanwhile studies in the elderly do show an increase in fat loss.

The potential for anecdotal "fat loss" benefit in younger athletes that could be seen would likely be a byproduct of additional exercise capacity.

Which is of course positive and makes carnitine a good ingredient to supplement, but from a strict perspective to call something a 'fat burner' it should be able to increase fat loss with other variables being the same. (E.g. ephedrine or higenamine will increase metabolism while maintaining the same activity level)

Meanwhile ingredients that increase the potential for fat loss while not directly causing fat loss should be categorized differently.

Or at the very least, the distinction is important and needs to be made for the sake of expectations and having your fitness/diet/nutrition plans setup optimally.

The ambiguity of MOA given in many companies fat burners is probably the second biggest cause of disappointment in fat burning supplement (first being unrealistic expectations of miracle fat loss)

--

Yeah gotta agree here. A fat burner will be an agent that aids via different mechanisms to direct fat cell deflation ceteris paribus that is. Though like mentioned the indirect effect of LCLT in fat loss is noticeable when taken pre-workout for its recovery advantages, yet it's not keeping everything constant due to increase in caloric expenditure due to more activity rather than by own thermogenesis or self generated lipolysis, me thinks... Though I could be wrong hehe

 

[JudoJosh]

I wouldn't anticipate a great deal of difference between bonded GPLC and PLCAR + Glycine.

nitric oxide production

 

[De__eB]

nitric oxide production

You'll notice that Sigma-Tau only used GPLC and a control, and made no comparison of GPLC to PLC+Glycine...or any other form of carnitine for that matter to demonstrate any benefit of buying their proprietary bonded compound.

If the argument for the amino acid chelate is that it increases bioavailability, you could exceed that bioavailability increase for cheaper by increasing your dose of glycine + PLCAR alone given the markup sigma-tau puts out on the ingredient.

Also, they funded a study on Arginine+ALCAR bonded, and found that it increased nitric oxide as well but you won't see them touting that one as much since they want to sell GPLC. Luckily for them, they've patented every possible amino acid chelate of carnitine.

 

[aaronuconn]

Why?

Please explain to us how it will.

I like studies posted as well.

 

[Celorza]

Please explain to us how it will.

I like studies posted as well.

I think I might be wrong on this one...but I think he was just taunting and trolling De__eB into an argument for the sake of it... I don't know why though, we are all adults and the past is past right?

 

[aaronuconn]

I think I might be wrong on this one...but I think he was just taunting and trolling De__eB into an argument for the sake of it... I don't know why though, we are all adults and the past is past right?

I suck at internet sarcasm.

 

[De__eB]

I think I might be wrong on this one...but I think he was just taunting and trolling De__eB into an argument for the sake of it... I don't know why though, we are all adults and the past is past right?

I really don't think either of us was looking for an argument.

It's mostly a tomato/tomato issue with clarifying the way in which carnitine facilitates fat burning.

The past is definitely the past on the issue you're probably referring to.

 

[Celorza]

I really don't think either of us was looking for an argument.

It's mostly a tomato/tomato issue with clarifying the way in which carnitine facilitates fat burning.

The past is definitely the past on the issue you're probably referring to.

Hehe I know Jacob can get a little upset easily, just wanted to avoid any mishaps.

 

[JudoJosh]

It seemed like you were intentionally trying to be inflammatory

 

[mr.cooper69]

Carnitine will help fat loss if administered properly. A new study was recently published, the second of such

http://jp.physoc.org/content/early/2013/06/26/jphysiol.2013.255364.abstract

 

[mr.cooper69]

You'll notice that Sigma-Tau only used GPLC and a control, and made no comparison of GPLC to PLC+Glycine...or any other form of carnitine for that matter to demonstrate any benefit of buying their proprietary bonded compound.

If the argument for the amino acid chelate is that it increases bioavailability, you could exceed that bioavailability increase for cheaper by increasing your dose of glycine + PLCAR alone given the markup sigma-tau puts out on the ingredient.

Also, they funded a study on Arginine+ALCAR bonded, and found that it increased nitric oxide as well but you won't see them touting that one as much since they want to sell GPLC. Luckily for them, they've patented every possible amino acid chelate of carnitine.

Yeah GPLC is quite a load of ______. The glycine serves no purpose and the PLCAR (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1537189113000773) is responsible for NO production

 

[JudoJosh]

@De_eb would you happen have the arginine + alcar paper?

 

[aaronuconn]

Carnitine will help fat loss if administered properly. A new study was recently published, the second of such

http://jp.physoc.org/content/early/2013/06/26/jphysiol.2013.255364.abstract

How dose dependent do you believe Carnitine + Carbs is in regards to increasing whole-body energy expenditure?

In your opinion, could the carbs be decreased and the carnitine be increased for similar or better results?

 

[mr.cooper69]

How dose dependent do you believe Carnitine + Carbs is in regards to increasing whole-body energy expenditure?

In your opinion, could the carbs be decreased and the carnitine be increased for similar or better results?

Carnitine uptake is insulin dependent. The key is to take your carnitine with your meals (moderate carbs/protein preferable) and to continue to do this for a few months.

 

[aaronuconn]

Carnitine uptake is insulin dependent. The key is to take your carnitine with your meals (moderate carbs/protein preferable) and to continue to do this for a few months.

So based on present literature, is L-Carnitine superior or at least on par with the various carnitine salts for fat loss? Given its cost, it would seem regular Carnitine would be the way to go if weight loss is your main objective.

 

[mr.cooper69]

So based on present literature, is L-Carnitine superior or at least on par with the various carnitine salts for fat loss? Given its cost, it would seem regular Carnitine would be the way to go if weight loss is your main objective.

L-carnitine and LCLT are the kinetically superior forms of carnitine, yes. That said, there is interesting data showing PLCAR may have an improved ability to enter the myocyte, and ALCAR can independently stimulate AMPK (another fat loss pathway). The carnitine salts also have benefits independent of fat loss. So your best bet is to pick your poison, because they all rock (except GPLC and L-Car-L-Fumarate)

 

[toddmuelheim]

Carnitine uptake is insulin dependent. The key is to take your carnitine with your meals (moderate carbs/protein preferable) and to continue to do this for a few months.

If one generally works out fasted, aside from the caloric value of GMS as part of the ArA/LCLT/GMS stack, would it be effective to take the ArA and GMS pre workout and the LCLT with the post workout meal and a later meal?

 

[De__eB]

@De_eb would you happen have the arginine + alcar paper?

Nutr Metab (Lond). 2009 Jun 2;6:25. doi: 10.1186/1743-7075-6-25.

ALCA, but not placebo, resulted in an increase in nitrate/nitrite (25.4 ± 1.9 to 30.1 ± 2.8 mumol·L⁻¹) from pre to post intervention, with post intervention values greater compared to placebo (p = 0.01)

It seemed like you were intentionally trying to be inflammatory

Hmm? Didn't mean to come across that way.

 

[toddmuelheim]

Nutr Metab (Lond). 2009 Jun 2;6:25. doi: 10.1186/1743-7075-6-25.

ALCA, but not placebo, resulted in an increase in nitrate/nitrite (25.4 ± 1.9 to 30.1 ± 2.8 mumol·L?¹) from pre to post intervention, with post intervention values greater compared to placebo (p = 0.01)

Hmm? Didn't mean to come across that way.

Inflammation isn't always bad anyway. It's all the rage right now.

 

[JudoJosh]

Hmm? Didn't mean to come across that way.

That comment wasnt about your post.

Thanks for the reference

 

[De__eB]

Inflammation isn't always bad anyway. It's all the rage right now.

Touche! Well played!

Carnitine will help fat loss if administered properly. A new study was recently published, the second of such

http://jp.physoc.org/content/early/2013/06/26/jphysiol.2013.255364.abstract

So they consumed carnitine and neither their body mass or fat mass changed at all after 12 weeks?

I really don't see how that equates to fat burning if their fat mass was identical before and after the study?

But maybe I'm missing something.

Again, I'm questioning the logic of carnitine as a direct fat burner. Not its usefulness as a fat loss facilitator.

 

[jimbuick]

Touche! Well played!

So they consumed carnitine and neither their body mass or fat mass changed at all after 12 weeks?

I really don't see how that equates to fat burning if their fat mass was identical before and after the study?

But maybe I'm missing something.

I think that may have been the point, I thought the point was the extra carbohydrates they consumed with the carnitine didn't become fat mass.

I just skimmed it though.

 

[jimbuick]

Or the gene expression. (Just read the link through)

Sounds like the gene expression shown was the exciting part, I wish I could get the full study to read it through. But generally when CY is excited about something, its worth looking into.

 

[RecompMan]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11925454/

Alcat been shown to aid letting resistance. Although in rats I'd like to see a human study

 

[Celorza]

It seemed like you were intentionally trying to be inflammatory

Anyone would think that, coming from me that is. However, I argue it it will look bad...so I'll just say sorry if it looked that way.

 

[De__eB]

Anyone would think that, coming from me that is. However, I argue it it will look bad...so I'll just say sorry if it looked that way.

Excuse me sir, would you take your hostile tone and please calm the **** down.

 

[Celorza]

Excuse me sir, would you take your hostile tone and please calm the **** down.

...seriously trying to be positive here. Heck I know it must seem impossible from me, but meh, time will tell and help spread the news. My actions are not with ill will no more, but one cannot just wash away the mistakes and damage done.

 

[aaronuconn]