Anyone take these? 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine, GABA

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    Anyone take these? 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine, GABA


    I have been reading more into neurotransmitters and these caught my attention. What's everyone's opinion on it?

    Seems cheap/too good to be true..?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnguy85 View Post
    I have been reading more into neurotransmitters and these caught my attention. What's everyone's opinion on it?

    Seems cheap/too good to be true..?
    5-HTP and Tyrosine put me in a great mood when I take them. Can't speak on GABA, however.

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    Do you use them together? Like Tyrosine in the AM and 5-HTP before bed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnguy85 View Post
    I have been reading more into neurotransmitters and these caught my attention. What's everyone's opinion on it?

    Seems cheap/too good to be true..?
    What are you trying to achieve? What are your goals? Help with sleep? Reducing anxiety? Growth hormone secretion? Deeper sleep? Dopamine or well being? Happiness/help depression??

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    I can tell you that GABA as well as L-Dopa(from velvet bean/mucuna pruriens) in the evening are just incredible for helping Dopamine and Growth Hormone. Noticeable relaxation, stronger erections, sexual stamina, deeper sleep, happiness and well being, body composition, even post cycle recovery. I love any natural GH support product.

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    I never feel full after eating. I have no control to stop eating food...even when my stomach is completely full to the point of discomfort. I thought it be trace minerals, vitamin deficiency etc. None of that has helped..yet. I am taking ZMK before bedtime.Recently I have been binge eating also.

    Some of it has to do with restrictive dieting but I am not sure how much these neurostransmitters affect such things. I read serotonin/Gaba levels can affect such behaviors. Every free meal that I plan ends up being a disaster.

    Is Gaba/5-htp addictive? Withdrawal symptoms?

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    Try Sam-E for serotonin and GABA but add in that L-Dopa. Swanson vitamins.com carries NOW L-Dopa for dirt cheap. I love the stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnguy85 View Post

    Is Gaba/5-htp addictive? Withdrawal symptoms?
    Anything medication/supplement that affects neurotransmitters in a positive/negative way taken for a period of time, can cause minor withdrawal symptoms if discontinued abruptly. Easy to avoid though.

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    5 HTP does have that appetite suppressant effect and if you take it with melatonin you won't have to worry much about eating because you will be comatosed....

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    I'd be careful with these types of supplements...Gaba I don't like much because of the "Gaba rush". Google "Gaba rush". It's extremely unpleasant. 5 Htp can increase serotonin levels. It can cause interactions with medications or some other supplements. It's just something I wouldn't mess with or take long term. Tyrosine I'm not too sure about. I believe it can increase dopamine levels somewhat. Gaba I believe to be relatively safe but I just don't react well to it at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I'd be careful with these types of supplements...Gaba I don't like much because of the "Gaba rush". Google "Gaba rush". It's extremely unpleasant. 5 Htp can increase serotonin levels. It can cause interactions with medications or some other supplements. It's just something I wouldn't mess with or take long term. Tyrosine I'm not too sure about. I believe it can increase dopamine levels somewhat. Gaba I believe to be relatively safe but I just don't react well to it at all.
    All good input and info. I start slow and take only when needed. Gaba and 5 htp together on the same night and I'm a zombie for three hours at work. I'll drink a whole pot of coffee before I feel normal. Some of these work just like a 'medication' meaning they have side effects too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    All good input and info. I start slow and take only when needed. Gaba and 5 htp together on the same night and I'm a zombie for three hours at work. I'll drink a whole pot of coffee before I feel normal. Some of these work just like a 'medication' meaning they have side effects too.
    Ever try PEA?...I think it works pretty well at reducing stress. Try SNS Pea-500 at Nutraplanet. It's a wicked good price and should last you a while. Pretty sure that that is a sale price though. You could get rid of the the Gaba and 5HTP and replace it with this one product. I don't think it will put you to sleep either. I've tried it a while back and it works well to reduce stress. To be honest it wasn't SNS brand but it was before I even knew SNS existed. It can act as a stimulant also, but won't have you freaking out. Of course PEA can also interact with prescriptions. Just be careful with any of these types of supplements and never go over the recommended dosage. Reason I say try PEA is because it can give you energy and focus and also help relieve stress. Plus I've tried it before and it worked pretty good for me. It's not something you want to take before bed. Try taking it before work with a cup of coffee. I wouldn't stack it with 5HTP, L-Dopa, or the other similar type supplements mentioned in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post

    Ever try PEA?...I think it works pretty well at reducing stress. Try SNS Pea-500 at Nutraplanet. It's a wicked good price and should last you a while. Pretty sure that that is a sale price though. You could get rid of the the Gaba and 5HTP and replace it with this one product. I don't think it will put you to sleep either. I've tried it a while back and it works well to reduce stress. To be honest it wasn't SNS brand but it was before I even knew SNS existed. It can act as a stimulant also, but won't have you freaking out.
    I'm inclined to agree if you are ONLY taking these for appetite suppression.

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    Dang, I'm super tired.....Must go lay down. Have a good night people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I'm inclined to agree if you are ONLY taking these for appetite suppression.

    Edited and updated my post a bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnguy85 View Post
    I have been reading more into neurotransmitters and these caught my attention. What's everyone's opinion on it?

    Seems cheap/too good to be true..?
    im a big fan of n-acetyl-tyrosine (said to be 20x better absorbed) and tyrosine ethyl ester; expensive getting them in a store, but oh so cheap in bulk. I find a noticeable improvement in energy at 1/4 teaspoon 3 times a day. a precursor to dopamine, adrenaline and noradrenaline whats not to love? it also benefits the thyroid. gaba is good for a lot of things and there is an uber-potent form of that bound to niacin, but as with 5-htp, I have a hard time welcoming the drowsiness being on the chill side already myself; ive seen labels for 5-htp will cautioning users not to drive after dosing, as the sleep can really come on. definitely powerful though

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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post

    im a big fan of n-acetyl-tyrosine (said to be 20x better absorbed) and tyrosine ethyl ester; expensive getting them in a store, but oh so cheap in bulk. I find a noticeable improvement in energy at 1/4 teaspoon 3 times a day. a precursor to dopamine, adrenaline and noradrenaline whats not to love? it also benefits the thyroid.
    I'm about to Google. Wow thyroid benefits & energy?!?! Any info in how it helps thyroid? Hypo or hyper? Which form is better the N.A.T? Or T.E.E.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    im a big fan of n-acetyl-tyrosine (said to be 20x better absorbed) and tyrosine ethyl ester; expensive getting them in a store, but oh so cheap in bulk. I find a noticeable improvement in energy at 1/4 teaspoon 3 times a day. a precursor to dopamine, adrenaline and noradrenaline whats not to love? it also benefits the thyroid. gaba is good for a lot of things and there is an uber-potent form of that bound to niacin, but as with 5-htp, I have a hard time welcoming the drowsiness being on the chill side already myself; ive seen labels for 5-htp will cautioning users not to drive after dosing, as the sleep can really come on. definitely powerful though
    N-Acetyl-Tyrosine actually has worse overall CNS penetration and body retention. Adding an ethyl ester is worthless too.

    Binding gaba to niacin doesn't make it more potent..it just makes it centrally penetrating.

    Also, PEA releases catecholamines and increases the stress response, not decreases it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I'm about to Google. Wow thyroid benefits & energy?!?! Any info in how it helps thyroid? Hypo or hyper? Which form is better the N.A.T? Or T.E.E.?
    L-Tyrosine is the best form. It doesn't benefit the thyroid, it's just a thyroid hormone precursor (but if you're not deficient, taking more won't induce T3 release...remember, thyroid hormone is stored as thyroglobulin)
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    TYROSINE OVERVIEW INFORMATION
    Tyrosine is one of the amino acids, which are the building blocks of protein. The body makes tyrosine from another amino acid called phenylalanine. Tyrosine can also be found in dairy products, meats, fish, eggs, nuts, beans, oats, and wheat.

    People take tyrosine for depression, attention deficit disorder (ADD), attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), the inability to stay awake (narcolepsy), and improving alertness following sleep deprivation. It is also used for stress, premenstrual syndrome (PMS), Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), alcohol and cocaine withdrawal, heart disease and stroke, ED (erectile dysfunction), loss of interest in sex, schizophrenia, and as a suntan agent and appetite suppressant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    TYROSINE OVERVIEW INFORMATION
    Tyrosine is one of the amino acids, which are the building blocks of protein. The body makes tyrosine from another amino acid called phenylalanine. Tyrosine can also be found in dairy products, meats, fish, eggs, nuts, beans, oats, and wheat.

    People take tyrosine for depression, attention deficit disorder (ADD), attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), the inability to stay awake (narcolepsy), and improving alertness following sleep deprivation. It is also used for stress, premenstrual syndrome (PMS), Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), alcohol and cocaine withdrawal, heart disease and stroke, ED (erectile dysfunction), loss of interest in sex, schizophrenia, and as a suntan agent and appetite suppressant.
    Here's all you should take away from that:

    L-tyrosine -> l-dopa -> dopamine -> NE -> E

    NE/E regulate the acute stress response. Thus, taking tyrosine allows you to better respond to stressors during stressful periods. It also suppresses appetite vicariously through this mechanism.

    I would never use tyrosine to treat any of those disorders as an aspiring physician, personally.
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    Cooper, do you take L-Tyrosine?

    I guess I can start with that one and see how I react before messing around with 5-HTP and Gaba.

    Where does L-Glutamine play into all this in terms of appetite suppression etc?

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    There is nothing wrong with taking 5htp ya ninnies. One person says one thing and then the thread spirals lol...

    For whoever 5htp turns into a "zombie" what dose are you taking? I've taken 5htp frequently in upwards of 200mg to help replenish serotonin after times of little sleep or strenuous workouts and fires. I've never even become overly drowsy lol

    The biggest thing with it us you want to be careful of down regulation of the other neurotransmitters etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnguy85 View Post
    Cooper, do you take L-Tyrosine?

    I guess I can start with that one and see how I react before messing around with 5-HTP and Gaba.

    Where does L-Glutamine play into all this in terms of appetite suppression etc?
    I take it from time to time. Just don't combine it with yohimbine.

    L-glutamine has no role here, supplementally

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    There is nothing wrong with taking 5htp ya ninnies. One person says one thing and then the thread spirals lol...

    For whoever 5htp turns into a "zombie" what dose are you taking? I've taken 5htp frequently in upwards of 200mg to help replenish serotonin after times of little sleep or strenuous workouts and fires. I've never even become overly drowsy lol
    Nor have I
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    L-Tyrosine is the best form. It doesn't benefit the thyroid, it's just a thyroid hormone precursor (but if you're not deficient, taking more won't induce T3 release...remember, thyroid hormone is stored as thyroglobulin)
    ive taken every form there is. never saw the energy benefits of straight up l-tyrosine. i have people tell me there's no difference between isolated B vitmains and coenzymated ones, and that 50g of protein a day is all i could ever need but im not going to wait out for all the literature to catch up

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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post

    i have people tell me there's no difference between isolated B vitmains and coenzymated ones,
    People that don't understand single nucleotide polymorphisms and methylation I would imagine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I'm about to Google. Wow thyroid benefits & energy?!?! Any info in how it helps thyroid? Hypo or hyper? Which form is better the N.A.T? Or T.E.E.?
    it's involved in the production of thyroxin. for some, its a missing piece of the equation toward having more thyroxin, so we are steering away from hypo. the dose i took of n-aceetyl is alot over label use, but far less than l-tyrosine recommendations. it was a very clean energy. ive heard people describe it as better than coffee, but i wouldnt go that far. theres just more motivation, less sleeping every night

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    People that don't understand single nucleotide polymorphisms and methylation I would imagine.

    haha, well they just stick to outdated studies or point to the absence of one, instead of trying it and realizing

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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post

    it's involved in the production of thyroxin. for some, its a missing piece of the equation toward having more thyroxin, so we are steering away from hypo. the dose i took of n-aceetyl is alot over label use, but far less than l-tyrosine recommendations. it was a very clean energy. ive heard people describe it as better than coffee, but i wouldnt go that far. theres just more motivation, less sleeping every night
    I'm going to give it a whirl, starting with a low dosage.
    Since having my DNA tested after labs showing hyperthyroidism in October, I have been able to get off of 4 of the 6 medications I was put on. For me Sam-E was an easy switch off of Zoloft. O side effects and increased relief from ocd/anxiety. Balancing methylation has been a struggle and an ongoing process but well worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I'm going to give it a whirl, starting with a low dosage.
    Since having my DNA tested after labs showing hyperthyroidism in October, I have been able to get off of 4 of the 6 medications I was put on. For me Sam-E was an easy switch off of Zoloft. O side effects and increased relief from ocd/anxiety. Balancing methylation has been a struggle and an ongoing process but well worth it.
    wow. congradulations! there a famous dr, browstein, who really has got alot of interesting information on altering thyroid levels. if i could find his free information books, id remember what minerals he was talking about that are involved with the thyroid as well. copper and selenium came up, but i cant clarify at the moment the effect they had toward what you are achieving. selenium is involved in converting the inactive form of thyroxin to the acitve one, but copper may align with what you are doing; i dont know, i would have to find it and check, but i think i ditched the books he sent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Binding gaba to niacin doesn't make it more potent..it just makes it centrally penetrating.
    well, what i mean to say is that less will do more, since we're talking blood-brain barrier penetration. sns makes a good encapsulated Picamilon (niacin-bound gaba) i think

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    There is nothing wrong with taking 5htp ya ninnies. One person says one thing and then the thread spirals lol...

    For whoever 5htp turns into a "zombie" what dose are you taking? I've taken 5htp frequently in upwards of 200mg to help replenish serotonin after times of little sleep or strenuous workouts and fires. I've never even become overly drowsy lol

    The biggest thing with it us you want to be careful of down regulation of the other neurotransmitters etc...

    haha. im not saying theres anything wrong with it, and I don't think anyone else is either; im just reporting my experience with it. I took a natrol brand at 200mg, 3x daily for a few days to see what it was all about. natrol is the brand that warns ou on the bottle not to drive until you see how it affects you. on the night of day 5, I went to bed and woke up groggy 14 hours later; It was winter and I only had like 3 hours of dayligt lieft upon rising. stopped taking it, don't plan on ever taking it again. I think a lot of people who spend money on sleeping medication would be way better off with something like 5-htp which also benefits the pineal gland. I also think there are people who might have an unusually low amount of serotonin going for them that would greatly benefit from this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I'm going to give it a whirl, starting with a low dosage.
    Since having my DNA tested after labs showing hyperthyroidism in October, I have been able to get off of 4 of the 6 medications I was put on. For me Sam-E was an easy switch off of Zoloft. O side effects and increased relief from ocd/anxiety. Balancing methylation has been a struggle and an ongoing process but well worth it.
    do you mean to say hypothyroidism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    ive taken every form there is. never saw the energy benefits of straight up l-tyrosine. i have people tell me there's no difference between isolated B vitmains and coenzymated ones, and that 50g of protein a day is all i could ever need but im not going to wait out for all the literature to catch up
    You can experience whatever anecdote you want, but there is human data comparing NAT to L-tyrosine, and it falls considerably short.

    B vitamins aren't a valid comparison unless you are extremely malnourished.

    The science already shows the benefits of a high protein diet. If you want to follow "the science" (aptly named), take note of what is real and what is psychological.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    it's involved in the production of thyroxin. for some, its a missing piece of the equation toward having more thyroxin, so we are steering away from hypo. the dose i took of n-aceetyl is alot over label use, but far less than l-tyrosine recommendations. it was a very clean energy. ive heard people describe it as better than coffee, but i wouldnt go that far. theres just more motivation, less sleeping every night
    Tyrosine is not the missing piece of the equation for anyone on a high protein diet, and it's not even the missing piece of the equation for almost the entirety of the 1st world. We see this problem a lot more in starving nations like Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    well, what i mean to say is that less will do more, since we're talking blood-brain barrier penetration. sns makes a good encapsulated Picamilon (niacin-bound gaba) i think
    The effects are different because GABA doesn't penetrate the BBB. GABA acts peripherally to induce physical sedation, whereas Picamilon has the ability to change perception
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    haha. im not saying theres anything wrong with it, and I don't think anyone else is either; im just reporting my experience with it. I took a natrol brand at 200mg, 3x daily for a few days to see what it was all about. natrol is the brand that warns ou on the bottle not to drive until you see how it affects you. on the night of day 5, I went to bed and woke up groggy 14 hours later; It was winter and I only had like 3 hours of dayligt lieft upon rising. stopped taking it, don't plan on ever taking it again. I think a lot of people who spend money on sleeping medication would be way better off with something like 5-htp which also benefits the pineal gland. I also think there are people who might have an unusually low amount of serotonin going for them that would greatly benefit from this.
    600mg daily is quite a bit
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You can experience whatever anecdote you want, but there is human data comparing NAT to L-tyrosine, and it falls considerably short.

    my bad, they said it is 20x more soluable in water than l-tyrosine. , i also think there is something to have the acetyl bonded on for utilization, especially when it comes to something intended for the brain.. people are paying big bucks for acetyl carnitine when they could get carnitine alot cheaper. they pay for it cuz it works better. i wish i could psychologically induce the wakefullness that comes on onsought. i actually tolerance mapped the stuff. too much and the bowels let you know it, i also experienced an intense body heat when taken that amount (think it was 1/4 teason 6x daily) on the day i got the runs from that dose on two occasions. nothing like that happened with l-tyrosine at a bigger dose; i cant accredit that to phychology.

    B vitamins aren't a valid comparison unless you are extremely malnourished.
    well my point is that people act like there is no additional benefit between taking b vits extracted from tar and taking coenzymated b vitamin supplements, just because the studies arent all over the place.
    The science already shows the benefits of a high protein diet. If you want to follow "the science" (aptly named), take note of what is real and what is psychological
    .

    im refering to, say jay cutler at 450 grams a day. its not like the literature walks in lockstep with what bodybuilders are sucessfully messing with



    Tyrosine is not the missing piece of the equation for anyone on a high protein diet, and it's not even the missing piece of the equation for almost the entirety of the 1st world. We see this problem a lot more in starving nations like Africa.
    well, ive read alot of stuff that says exactly that, and that nobody in america has any deficiencies because we are so well fed. of course, the reality is deficiencies are everywhere as evidenced by the tremendous benefit people get from supplements. you never know whats going on with someone enzymatically; for example, the argument could be made that there's no way anyone needs 1-carboxy on a high protein diet; fact is, tyrosine hydroxylase diminishes with age, so its hardly fair in that case to assume we all got normal levels of l-dopa. i got a spectracell test done; they make a good case for how poor blood tests indicate deficiencies. when you get the results, they send you where you sit compared to everyone whose taken the tests in america. they show vitamins, minerals, and aminos; there ALOT of deficiencies going on in this well fed country

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    600mg daily is quite a bit
    yeah. i used nutrabio with the plan to bump levels, see what its about, and then get off.

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    The position of the acetyl group matters, and in the case of NAT, it's not analagous to ALCAR. NAT also has like a 100-fold worse kinetic profile and poorer BBB permeability.

    The studies with B-vitamins do exist.

    Jay Cutler eats that much because he has a ton of LBM and runs all sorts of steroids.

    Lastly, you are completely overstating 1-carboxy (it's L-dopa...) and its utlity with aging. It's not about tyrosine hydroxylase, it's about neuronal death...and it's called parkinson's.

    NO ONE healthy should be deficient in tyrosine because it's not even an essential amino acid. Your body can make it on its own

    Come on. Change the username to TheAnecdote or something
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The position of the acetyl group matters, and in the case of NAT, it's not analagous to ALCAR. NAT also has like a 100-fold worse kinetic profile and poorer BBB permeability.


    you mean worse than acetyl carnitine, sure. you arent saying its worse than l-tyrosine. however poorer NALT BBB absorption to ALCAR may be, that doesnt mean its not better thal l-tyrosine. i also hear really bad things about ethyl-ester aminos as well. in the case of fish oil, i think the ethyl ester doesnt compare to, say, verctomega. HOWEVER, in the case of ornithing ethyl-ester, at a much smaller dose than l-ornithine: the pumps dont lie!!!!!




    The studies with B-vitamins do exist.
    ok. point taken, but they werent always there. ginko biloba worked thousands of years before a study was done on it to prove it; theres just as much of a chance of somebody being anecdotally off key with somethings's effects as there is with a study being corrupted, being as they are funded by people with motives

    Jay Cutler eats that much because he has a ton of LBM and runs all sorts of steroids.
    ok, but the point is there's alot we really dont know, yet the substances are available. bodybuilders are always exploring here; those guys are composed of secrets, secrets people would doubt if they heard them, secrets the laboratories dont know about
    Lastly, you are completely overstating 1-carboxy (it's L-dopa...) and its utlity with aging. It's not about tyrosine hydroxylase, it's about neuronal death...and it's called parkinson's.
    i saw this study on improving tyrosine hydroxylase with mice; it didnt occur to me that they might be pre- parkinsons, ibut they did experience improvent in tyrosine hydroxylase expression

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9011759

    NO ONE healthy should be deficient in tyrosine because it's not even an essential amino acid. Your body can make it on its own
    not sure if tyrosine was on that spectracell test, but there were MANY people who needed non-essential aminos in this country, as evidence on the national test results. my thought was, everybody has a story; some people have cysts and crap in their pancrease, and the enzymes dont get out like they should. pther people just arent making enzymes like they should; hell, we all run out of them, sooner or later; we have a preset amount of them, and when theyre gone, its death by natural causes. i just cant give any credence to any statement predicating what levels of nutrients EVERYBODY has of everything. if the studies on that knew everything, we wouldnt be learning more and more about everything beyond what we knew every year.

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    The problem here is that studies were done on NAT vs Tyrosine. There isn't an absence of data. There is only data proving NAT is inferior.

    Read: http://hightowerpharmacology.blogspo...-tyrosine.html
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

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