Anyone take these? 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine, GABA

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Binding gaba to niacin doesn't make it more potent..it just makes it centrally penetrating.
    well, what i mean to say is that less will do more, since we're talking blood-brain barrier penetration. sns makes a good encapsulated Picamilon (niacin-bound gaba) i think


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    There is nothing wrong with taking 5htp ya ninnies. One person says one thing and then the thread spirals lol...

    For whoever 5htp turns into a "zombie" what dose are you taking? I've taken 5htp frequently in upwards of 200mg to help replenish serotonin after times of little sleep or strenuous workouts and fires. I've never even become overly drowsy lol

    The biggest thing with it us you want to be careful of down regulation of the other neurotransmitters etc...

    haha. im not saying theres anything wrong with it, and I don't think anyone else is either; im just reporting my experience with it. I took a natrol brand at 200mg, 3x daily for a few days to see what it was all about. natrol is the brand that warns ou on the bottle not to drive until you see how it affects you. on the night of day 5, I went to bed and woke up groggy 14 hours later; It was winter and I only had like 3 hours of dayligt lieft upon rising. stopped taking it, don't plan on ever taking it again. I think a lot of people who spend money on sleeping medication would be way better off with something like 5-htp which also benefits the pineal gland. I also think there are people who might have an unusually low amount of serotonin going for them that would greatly benefit from this.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I'm going to give it a whirl, starting with a low dosage.
    Since having my DNA tested after labs showing hyperthyroidism in October, I have been able to get off of 4 of the 6 medications I was put on. For me Sam-E was an easy switch off of Zoloft. O side effects and increased relief from ocd/anxiety. Balancing methylation has been a struggle and an ongoing process but well worth it.
    do you mean to say hypothyroidism?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    ive taken every form there is. never saw the energy benefits of straight up l-tyrosine. i have people tell me there's no difference between isolated B vitmains and coenzymated ones, and that 50g of protein a day is all i could ever need but im not going to wait out for all the literature to catch up
    You can experience whatever anecdote you want, but there is human data comparing NAT to L-tyrosine, and it falls considerably short.

    B vitamins aren't a valid comparison unless you are extremely malnourished.

    The science already shows the benefits of a high protein diet. If you want to follow "the science" (aptly named), take note of what is real and what is psychological.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    it's involved in the production of thyroxin. for some, its a missing piece of the equation toward having more thyroxin, so we are steering away from hypo. the dose i took of n-aceetyl is alot over label use, but far less than l-tyrosine recommendations. it was a very clean energy. ive heard people describe it as better than coffee, but i wouldnt go that far. theres just more motivation, less sleeping every night
    Tyrosine is not the missing piece of the equation for anyone on a high protein diet, and it's not even the missing piece of the equation for almost the entirety of the 1st world. We see this problem a lot more in starving nations like Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    well, what i mean to say is that less will do more, since we're talking blood-brain barrier penetration. sns makes a good encapsulated Picamilon (niacin-bound gaba) i think
    The effects are different because GABA doesn't penetrate the BBB. GABA acts peripherally to induce physical sedation, whereas Picamilon has the ability to change perception
  5. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    Spaniard's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    haha. im not saying theres anything wrong with it, and I don't think anyone else is either; im just reporting my experience with it. I took a natrol brand at 200mg, 3x daily for a few days to see what it was all about. natrol is the brand that warns ou on the bottle not to drive until you see how it affects you. on the night of day 5, I went to bed and woke up groggy 14 hours later; It was winter and I only had like 3 hours of dayligt lieft upon rising. stopped taking it, don't plan on ever taking it again. I think a lot of people who spend money on sleeping medication would be way better off with something like 5-htp which also benefits the pineal gland. I also think there are people who might have an unusually low amount of serotonin going for them that would greatly benefit from this.
    600mg daily is quite a bit
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  6. [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You can experience whatever anecdote you want, but there is human data comparing NAT to L-tyrosine, and it falls considerably short.

    my bad, they said it is 20x more soluable in water than l-tyrosine. , i also think there is something to have the acetyl bonded on for utilization, especially when it comes to something intended for the brain.. people are paying big bucks for acetyl carnitine when they could get carnitine alot cheaper. they pay for it cuz it works better. i wish i could psychologically induce the wakefullness that comes on onsought. i actually tolerance mapped the stuff. too much and the bowels let you know it, i also experienced an intense body heat when taken that amount (think it was 1/4 teason 6x daily) on the day i got the runs from that dose on two occasions. nothing like that happened with l-tyrosine at a bigger dose; i cant accredit that to phychology.

    B vitamins aren't a valid comparison unless you are extremely malnourished.
    well my point is that people act like there is no additional benefit between taking b vits extracted from tar and taking coenzymated b vitamin supplements, just because the studies arent all over the place.
    The science already shows the benefits of a high protein diet. If you want to follow "the science" (aptly named), take note of what is real and what is psychological
    .

    im refering to, say jay cutler at 450 grams a day. its not like the literature walks in lockstep with what bodybuilders are sucessfully messing with



    Tyrosine is not the missing piece of the equation for anyone on a high protein diet, and it's not even the missing piece of the equation for almost the entirety of the 1st world. We see this problem a lot more in starving nations like Africa.
    well, ive read alot of stuff that says exactly that, and that nobody in america has any deficiencies because we are so well fed. of course, the reality is deficiencies are everywhere as evidenced by the tremendous benefit people get from supplements. you never know whats going on with someone enzymatically; for example, the argument could be made that there's no way anyone needs 1-carboxy on a high protein diet; fact is, tyrosine hydroxylase diminishes with age, so its hardly fair in that case to assume we all got normal levels of l-dopa. i got a spectracell test done; they make a good case for how poor blood tests indicate deficiencies. when you get the results, they send you where you sit compared to everyone whose taken the tests in america. they show vitamins, minerals, and aminos; there ALOT of deficiencies going on in this well fed country

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    600mg daily is quite a bit
    yeah. i used nutrabio with the plan to bump levels, see what its about, and then get off.

  8. The position of the acetyl group matters, and in the case of NAT, it's not analagous to ALCAR. NAT also has like a 100-fold worse kinetic profile and poorer BBB permeability.

    The studies with B-vitamins do exist.

    Jay Cutler eats that much because he has a ton of LBM and runs all sorts of steroids.

    Lastly, you are completely overstating 1-carboxy (it's L-dopa...) and its utlity with aging. It's not about tyrosine hydroxylase, it's about neuronal death...and it's called parkinson's.

    NO ONE healthy should be deficient in tyrosine because it's not even an essential amino acid. Your body can make it on its own

    Come on. Change the username to TheAnecdote or something

  9. [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The position of the acetyl group matters, and in the case of NAT, it's not analagous to ALCAR. NAT also has like a 100-fold worse kinetic profile and poorer BBB permeability.


    you mean worse than acetyl carnitine, sure. you arent saying its worse than l-tyrosine. however poorer NALT BBB absorption to ALCAR may be, that doesnt mean its not better thal l-tyrosine. i also hear really bad things about ethyl-ester aminos as well. in the case of fish oil, i think the ethyl ester doesnt compare to, say, verctomega. HOWEVER, in the case of ornithing ethyl-ester, at a much smaller dose than l-ornithine: the pumps dont lie!!!!!




    The studies with B-vitamins do exist.
    ok. point taken, but they werent always there. ginko biloba worked thousands of years before a study was done on it to prove it; theres just as much of a chance of somebody being anecdotally off key with somethings's effects as there is with a study being corrupted, being as they are funded by people with motives

    Jay Cutler eats that much because he has a ton of LBM and runs all sorts of steroids.
    ok, but the point is there's alot we really dont know, yet the substances are available. bodybuilders are always exploring here; those guys are composed of secrets, secrets people would doubt if they heard them, secrets the laboratories dont know about
    Lastly, you are completely overstating 1-carboxy (it's L-dopa...) and its utlity with aging. It's not about tyrosine hydroxylase, it's about neuronal death...and it's called parkinson's.
    i saw this study on improving tyrosine hydroxylase with mice; it didnt occur to me that they might be pre- parkinsons, ibut they did experience improvent in tyrosine hydroxylase expression

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9011759

    NO ONE healthy should be deficient in tyrosine because it's not even an essential amino acid. Your body can make it on its own
    not sure if tyrosine was on that spectracell test, but there were MANY people who needed non-essential aminos in this country, as evidence on the national test results. my thought was, everybody has a story; some people have cysts and crap in their pancrease, and the enzymes dont get out like they should. pther people just arent making enzymes like they should; hell, we all run out of them, sooner or later; we have a preset amount of them, and when theyre gone, its death by natural causes. i just cant give any credence to any statement predicating what levels of nutrients EVERYBODY has of everything. if the studies on that knew everything, we wouldnt be learning more and more about everything beyond what we knew every year.

  10. The problem here is that studies were done on NAT vs Tyrosine. There isn't an absence of data. There is only data proving NAT is inferior.

    Read: http://hightowerpharmacology.blogspo...-tyrosine.html
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Come on. Change the username to TheAnecdote or something
    its got a ring to it, doesnt it? ironically, i think sometimes people miss out on a new discovery and athletic enhancement because a study dissuedes them. i cant find anything of the utmost tangibilty supporting n-acetyl-tyrosine over l-tyrosine and nothing proving theyre the same, but at least 20 companies selling it claim its better absorbed and it crosses the blood brain barrier better. i know they have motive to make claims, but theyre also the only ones around with motive to study that. i take alot of skepticism toward studies about anything pertaining to neurotrasnmitters, given the billions at stake for competing pyschdrugs.

    hahahah got your message.

  12. great thread, friends. i need to look into some of these mood boosters.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The problem here is that studies were done on NAT vs Tyrosine. There isn't an absence of data. There is only data proving NAT is inferior.

    Read: http://hightowerpharmacology.blogspo...-tyrosine.html
    interesting, but thats based on whats seen in the bloodstream; the link didnt get into any measurements lost in urine whatsoever. that's only speculated and they admit it. he fact that there's less nalt in the bloodstream could imply better utilization or absorption into the body. ive heard plenty of arguements that the stuff that remains in the bloodstream is the stuff that isnt getting into the body better; case in point is that natto version of vitamin k. proponents say the stuff is better because its so large that it remains in the bloodstream longer, enabling more opportunity for absorption from the bloodstream. people who say its crap argue that its so big, it just floats around in the bloodstream for 3 days before i it is eventually excreted, being to big to find absorption in the body. i dont know anyone who want a muscle or brain biopsy to adequately test absorption, but blood tests are such a minute and transient representation of what's happening in the body.

  14. I take dymatize GABA and like it, i sleep so much better when taking it.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    interesting, but thats based on whats seen in the bloodstream; the link didnt get into any measurements lost in urine whatsoever. that's only speculated and they admit it. he fact that there's less nalt in the bloodstream could imply better utilization or absorption into the body. ive heard plenty of arguements that the stuff that remains in the bloodstream is the stuff that isnt getting into the body better; case in point is that natto version of vitamin k. proponents say the stuff is better because its so large that it remains in the bloodstream longer, enabling more opportunity for absorption from the bloodstream. people who say its crap argue that its so big, it just floats around in the bloodstream for 3 days before i it is eventually excreted, being to big to find absorption in the body. i dont know anyone who want a muscle or brain biopsy to adequately test absorption, but blood tests are such a minute and transient representation of what's happening in the body.
    Did you read the cited texts? Urinary excretion was the prime measurement, and NAT was excreted much more rapidly (consistent with its greater solubility). I can't do everything here man, gotta do some of your own research too.

    We can go back and forth on this all day, but why do you support NAT so much? The entirety of the body of science shows its inferior, and this is a sizable amount of literature conducted in humans. There is literally no reason to believe NAT is superior other than a couple claims made by marketing hype artists when NAT was first introduced to the supplement market

  16. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Did you read the cited texts? Urinary excretion was the prime measurement, and NAT was excreted much more rapidly (consistent with its greater solubility). I can't do everything here man, gotta do some of your own research too.

    We can go back and forth on this all day, but why do you support NAT so much? The entirety of the body of science shows its inferior, and this is a sizable amount of literature conducted in humans. There is literally no reason to believe NAT is superior other than a couple claims made by marketing hype artists when NAT was first introduced to the supplement market
    bravo. youre right, i should have looked at those; it was late. i guess i just cant be persuaded because ive tried both forms extensively. the fact that high doses of nalt messed with my bowels supports those studies, as unabsorbed substances can do that, but i have to set my gaze to a study that hasnt been performed yet; for all we know, more is excreted with nalt because peak cellular amounts are achieved more rapidly with much less, which no blood reading can attest to.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    bravo. youre right, i should have looked at those; it was late. i guess i just cant be persuaded because ive tried both forms extensively. the fact that high doses of nalt messed with my bowels supports those studies, as unabsorbed substances can do that, but i have to set my gaze to a study that hasnt been performed yet; for all we know, more is excreted with nalt because peak cellular amounts are achieved more rapidly with much less, which no blood reading can attest to.
    If more is excreted, that means less has made it into the cell and gotten converted into L-dopa and downstream compounds

  18. Hey mr cooper- I take tyrosine. Is it ok with my alphamine? I noticed that you mentioned avoiding yohimbine.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by GIJane1928 View Post
    Hey mr cooper- I take tyrosine. Is it ok with my alphamine? I noticed that you mentioned avoiding yohimbine.
    While yohimbe and yohimbine aren't synonymous, I would not advise tyrosine with alphamine concurrently. You can certainly take it at a different time of day though

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    What are you trying to achieve? What are your goals? Help with sleep? Reducing anxiety? Growth hormone secretion? Deeper sleep? Dopamine or well being? Happiness/help depression??
    i am looking for all of those things, actually.

  21. Thanks for the input. Out of curiosity- why?

  22. who doesn't like happiness, lack of anxiety and depression, and restful sleep?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by johnnybeegood View Post
    who doesn't like happiness, lack of anxiety and depression, and restful sleep?
    Well everyone likes them. But for those who have suffered severe anxiety attacks, moderate/severe depression and have lost countless hours of sleep, who are looking to alternatives to benzodiazepines, hypnotic sedative sleep aids and libido destroying antidepressants, finding the right balance of supplements at the right doses for the right symptoms can be tricky. Especially if you are shooting in the dark without having DNA tested and methylation balanced.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by johnnybeegood View Post

    i am looking for all of those things, actually.
    I have used gaba, melatonin, 5-htp and velvet bean(L-dopa) st johns wort. My vote goes to velvet bean and st johns wort tea. So far, I've had serious trouble with the morning after with Gaba. And 5-htp is expensive and I havent given it a fair chance yet.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by GIJane1928 View Post
    Thanks for the input. Out of curiosity- why?
    The best link I have is on BB.com. Not sure if I can link it but there's a dangerous central interaction

  26. I can only respond by sharing with you what I take on a daily basis for the past several years.

    I start in the morning with a multivitamin and add to that two capsules of L-Dopa, one capsule each of L-tyrosine, 5-HTP and Tribulus. In addition, I take one 20 mg capsule of Adderall XR and one Wellbutrin pill as well as one 10 mg pseudoephedrine pill, two 5 mg ephedrine pills, one zinc pill, two T1 capsules, one or two ibuprofen pills and about 1000 mg of PEA.

    Later in the day, I'll repeat this dosage one more time.

    Before bed, I will take one GABA, one 5-HTP and three 5 mg melatonin pills.

    I have been following this regimen with minor variations for many years now and as I approach my 64th birthday, I remain in top physical, mental and emotional health.

    This regimen may not suit everyone but it has certainly worked for me.
  

  
 

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