MANSports PF3: what to look for. compiled testimony - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 3

MANSports PF3: what to look for. compiled testimony

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Mr. Science don't make me taze you! Glutamine is chiefly synthesized by the body, not acquired from diet. Anyone who's not a burn victim has just the right amount
    Mr. Coop! When did you start rolling like that!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    Mr. Coop! When did you start rolling like that!!!
    I'm just busting his balls, but if you're gonna name yourself thescience, be prepared for the assault!
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    A CoA hands down (I'm being totally serious). I can't be bought like that, I don't even trust my own anecdote over real data (and rightfully so, everyone is subject to placebo, and strongly at that).

    I will take a lunch date with your employee allnatural as a substitute however
    haha. now think about this coop, the COA aint gonna make you grow, and it aint going to smack away the doms like PF3 could.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I'm just busting his balls, but if you're gonna name yourself thescience, be prepared for the assault!
    haha from what ive seen, a man need only log onto anabolicminds to experience an assault. fortunately for me, I have a tough hide
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    haha. now think about this coop, the COA aint gonna make you grow, and it aint going to smack away the doms like PF3 could.
    My mind needs to grow from seeing the specs first

    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    haha from what ive seen, a man need only log onto anabolicminds to experience an assault. fortunately for me, I have a tough hide
    It's hyde.

    Prosupps aint happy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Mr. Science don't make me taze you! Glutamine is chiefly synthesized by the body, not acquired from diet. Anyone who's not a burn victim has just the right amount
    you ever heard of this stuff called TAG (trans-alanyl glutamine)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
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    bwahahaha!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    It's hyde.
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    My mind needs to grow from seeing the specs first
    mind's always going to grow. explode out of there! Im sure Danielle steele has all kinds of educational insight on love, but I for one would rather just take a girl home
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    Maybe it's late right now and I'm dreaming, but I have no idea what's going on in the last few posts. I think I need to lie down for a bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Maybe it's late right now and I'm dreaming, but I have no idea what's going on in the last few posts. I think I need to lie down for a bit.
    Or maybe Honda need catching up for his Danielle Steele before exploding out there

    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post

    mind's always going to grow. explode out of there! Im sure Danielle steele has all kinds of educational insight on love, but I for one would rather just take a girl home
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    coops answer was impressively consistant, seriously. coop, I gotta ask though: suppose you take a supplement; over the next few weeks you notice you don't have doms anymore and so you decide to work out 5 times a week instead of two. this continues as long as you take the supplement. then you stop taking it and you feel sore and you go back to working out twice a week. you take the supplement again, and behold! you want to work out 5 times a week again and your doms are gone. now the question is, in all consistantcy, do you doubt your own testimony as anecdotal? do you say, "im not going to use this anymore until I have a chance to read about it at the library." ?

    not trying to buy anybody; fact is the supplements flow through me freely and I value anecdotal testimony. i dont shield my eyes from reviews on a product page, because there are astute observers who post them on their principles for the sake of a rapid transfer of information. .
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    coops answer was impressively consistant, seriously. coop, I gotta ask though: suppose you take a supplement; over the next few weeks you notice you don't have doms anymore and so you decide to work out 5 times a week instead of two. this continues as long as you take the supplement. then you stop taking it and you feel sore and you go back to working out twice a week. you take the supplement again, and behold! you want to work out 5 times a week again and your doms are gone. now the question is, in all consistantcy, do you doubt your own testimony as anecdotal? do you say, "im not going to use this anymore until I have a chance to read about it at the library." ?

    not trying to buy anybody; fact is the supplements flow through me freely and I value anecdotal testimony. i dont shield my eyes from reviews on a product page, because there are astute observers who post them on their principles for the sake of a rapid transfer of information. .
    Yes, I absolutely doubt it. I'm not being blinded. I know when I'm taking _______ and when I'm not, so there's no placebo control.

    Now, if there are overwhelming reports from people all over the world and the data hasn't yet been studied, then I will be much more open minded. I'm congizant of the fact that an absence of evidence does not indicate that something won't work. However, if there is data showing that _____________ doesn't work (i.e. with our N-Acetyl-Tyrosine debate), then I'm siding with the data.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Yes, I absolutely doubt it. I'm not being blinded. I know when I'm taking _______ and when I'm not, so there's no placebo control.

    Now, if there are overwhelming reports from people all over the world and the data hasn't yet been studied, then I will be much more open minded. I'm congizant of the fact that an absence of evidence does not indicate that something won't work. However, if there is data showing that _____________ doesn't work (i.e. with our N-Acetyl-Tyrosine debate), then I'm siding with the data.

    ok, so if you took a magic supplement that made you bench an extra 200lbs consistantly year in year out as long as you took it


    and nobody else saw that effect when they took it


    and there was no literature besides that indicating it is safe, would you stop taking it and deny any claim that it has benefit?
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    Hey thescience, I've got a magic supplement that adds 200 lbs to my bench, and I'll sell it to you for $50/month with no data whatsoever to back it and in fact there are several studies saying it can't possibly work the way I'm claiming it does, I expect you to fully support my innovative product and pay me money because that's how you roll.

    And that's where your logical path meets its fateful end.
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    I think we're getting way sidetracked here...wouldn't want people to think pf3 increases bench by 200 lbs.

    We hope everyone applying is patient as we build for the product's reveal. We appreciate everyone's interest and we totally understand how/why everyone is so inquisitive! We're just not at liberty to reveal anything quite yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post

    hey coop. let me ask you a question; What would you rather have in your hand in 3 months? a certificate of analysis, or a free tub of PF3? there is a right answer to this question

    the answer is both. if either can be possible, then it should be both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    hey coop. let me ask you a question; What would you rather have in your hand in 3 months? a certificate of analysis, or a free tub of PF3? there is a right answer to this question
    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    haha. now think about this coop, the COA aint gonna make you grow, and it aint going to smack away the doms like PF3 could.
    I hope these weren't serious posts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjwav34 View Post
    I hope these weren't serious posts.
    I'm just assuming nothing he has posted in this thread has been a serious post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    ok, so if you took a magic supplement that made you bench an extra 200lbs consistantly year in year out as long as you took it


    and nobody else saw that effect when they took it


    and there was no literature besides that indicating it is safe, would you stop taking it and deny any claim that it has benefit?
    There are real-world scenarios, and then there is fantasy. What you just laid out is fantasy. In the real world, placebo is comparable to real drug effects.
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    Thats what happened when i took tribulus.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    1) it has a molecular weight that's over 5x that of casein. upon its release, this will be the KING of slow-digesting protein. there is a ton of research on the benefits of casein over whey; having a constant trickle of amino's being absorbed improves protein synthesis.
    Not necessarily true. Amino acid levels must rise above previous levels to increase protein synthesis. The studies of whey vs casein you've read are done on a 10 hour fast. That's the main reason casein increased protein synthesis as much as it did. Casein is better at reducing protein catabolism than increasing protein synthesis. In normal conditions, eating every ~3 hours, whey becomes superior for muscle building because casein just couldn't increase amino acid levels above the last meals levels. Casein would be best for muscle preservation during a cut(and before bed).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    We hope everyone applying is patient as we build for the product's reveal. We appreciate everyone's interest and we totally understand how/why everyone is so inquisitive! We're just not at liberty to reveal anything quite yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vengeance187 View Post
    Not necessarily true. Amino acid levels must rise above previous levels to increase protein synthesis. The studies of whey vs casein you've read are done on a 10 hour fast. That's the main reason casein increased protein synthesis as much as it did. Casein is better at reducing protein catabolism than increasing protein synthesis. In normal conditions, eating every ~3 hours, whey becomes superior for muscle building because casein just couldn't increase amino acid levels above the last meals levels. Casein would be best for muscle preservation during a cut(and before bed).
    Spot-on. More on that to come for those who are PES insiders

    Casein may create a greater nitrogen retention effect, but whey creates plasma amino acid spikes, chiefly leucine, that spike MPS.
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    Exciting too I think The Solution some time off may take from busy schedule for designing especially PES delicious new creation recipes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vengeance187 View Post
    Not necessarily true. Amino acid levels must rise above previous levels to increase protein synthesis. The studies of whey vs casein you've read are done on a 10 hour fast. That's the main reason casein increased protein synthesis as much as it did. Casein is better at reducing protein catabolism than increasing protein synthesis. In normal conditions, eating every ~3 hours, whey becomes superior for muscle building because casein just couldn't increase amino acid levels above the last meals levels. Casein would be best for muscle preservation during a cut(and before bed).
    sure. I took a hydrolyzed whey for a long time, but I read a lot of stuff that said its gone after like an hour. I think that's why ive seen such a dramatic difference when I switched to casein, as I wasn't pumping in more hydrolyzed when every 2 hours
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    There are real-world scenarios, and then there is fantasy. What you just laid out is fantasy. In the real world, placebo is comparable to real drug effects.
    well, its a hypothetical scenario. I take it you would acknowledge efficacy in that scenario, as absurd as it is. I don't doubt the potential for placebo, but I don't think its this all-governing factor either; plenty of times people though a supplement was going to be the best thing ever, and then it didn't do anything; where was their placebo?. there have been a few times when I thought some supps had something going on, but over time I never saw my weights go up. if placebo was consistently the force its made to sound here, people wouldn't need supplements that work. I just cant see throwing any personal observation out the window, and the labs are missing out on something by so doing; for example, what if a study was done on a product's endurance where the participants checked in every day for tests. those tests can measure various parameters for any increased endurance, but they may overlook the fact that the participants went home, and with newfound endurance, performed physical feets beyond anything they've ever done, so much so that their test the next day show they are more worn out instead of less. anyone running that lab would be a fool to discount that information, SINCE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A COMPLETELY CONTROLLED SETTING. I know that user testimony is ripe for abuse, but studies are ripe for it also, besides being narrow in scope often.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Shall I retrieve one showing increased focus from glycerol monostearate (a saturated fat...no I'm not kidding, it's a BB.com review).
    focus is such a broad word, and not everybody uses it in the way intended with a substance. for example, a person may find they are sticking with their workout, being better hydrated, and consequently feel that they are not straying from their focus. I can find just as many twisted studies, like the one that just came out about fish oil increasing risk of prostate cancer, as if the subjects were completely isolated from pollution and the million other carcinogenic factors out there.
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    All these new Protein choices. Usplabs, PES, MAN... My head may explode. I still chuckle when I see dudes wearing size S holister shirts walking through Walmart with Walmart protein..

    Ok back to the peeing contest
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    Still wish GF-Pro was still around. The plasma/isolate blend was the best ever made, plus it had great flavor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGame84 View Post
    Still wish GF-Pro was still around. The plasma/isolate blend was the best ever made, plus it had great flavor.
    Oh man those were the best. If I remember it was Dreamsicle, Rasp Lemonade, and Blueberry. I went through so many tubs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubsfan815 View Post
    All these new Protein choices. Usplabs, PES, MAN... My head may explode. I still chuckle when I see dudes wearing size S holister shirts walking through Walmart with Walmart protein..

    Ok back to the peeing contest
    hahaha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Hey thescience, I've got a magic supplement that adds 200 lbs to my bench, and I'll sell it to you for $50/month with no data whatsoever to back it and in fact there are several studies saying it can't possibly work the way I'm claiming it does, I expect you to fully support my innovative product and pay me money because that's how you roll.

    And that's where your logical path meets its fateful end.
    come on guys, there's research. on release date, things will be made known. I would be interested in any such product; trying stuff out is my thing, though over the years ive learned to restrict my focuse to companies that have shown they make solid products, products with unique ingredients and products that have awesomely high extracts if im going to anticipate gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    the answer is both. if either can be possible, then it should be both.
    true. definitely true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjwav34 View Post
    I hope these weren't serious posts.
    dead serious. coops an interesting guy and I want to know where he stands. As someone who uses supplements, I hear about what effects people notice, and then I test those claims out for myself. bodybuilding has a long history of word of mouth and while we all know it isn't always accurate, like anything else, its still a piece of the puzzle. Look at all the supplements companies give away in beta-testing, all for the sake of hearing somebody's testimony.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    sure. I took a hydrolyzed whey for a long time, but I read a lot of stuff that said its gone after like an hour.
    It's not gone in an hour, that's when it peaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    I think that's why ive seen such a dramatic difference when I switched to casein, as I wasn't pumping in more hydrolyzed when every 2 hours
    I don't use whey as a meal replacement, I use it as a supplement. I eat real food an hour after whey. When casein is comparable to whole food in it's effects, and whey has supraphysiological effects that you couldn't get otherwise, which one seems like the better deal/option? If I want casein's effects, I will eat chicken...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vengeance187 View Post
    It's not gone in an hour, that's when it peaks.I don't use whey as a meal replacement, I use it as a supplement. I eat real food an hour after whey. When casein is comparable to whole food in it's effects, and whey has supraphysiological effects that you couldn't get otherwise, which one seems like the better deal/option? If I want casein's effects, I will eat chicken...
    I hear that. I think people will always be working with a variety of proteins, and of course protein supps aren't supposed to replace food. since I started taking protein powder, I have noticed im able to get a lot more grams in per day, and that I eat less calories in a day without being hungry. I saw in some of the PF3 beta-tester reviews that they felt more satiated and less hungry than with just their usual protein powders
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    dead serious. coops an interesting guy and I want to know where he stands. As someone who uses supplements, I hear about what effects people notice, and then I test those claims out for myself. bodybuilding has a long history of word of mouth and while we all know it isn't always accurate, like anything else, its still a piece of the puzzle. Look at all the supplements companies give away in beta-testing, all for the sake of hearing somebody's testimony.
    What relevance does that have toward a CoA?

    Beta-testing, word of mouth, and company promos are the worst way to get feedback. They all rely on anecdotal feedback which isn't reliable in the slightest. With company promos and beta testing you will more than likely get positive feedback regardless of the product's effectiveness since the user received it for free. Word of mouth, well that's how the term broscience was coined. Arginine and Glutamine still get touted around by word of mouth in every gym.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    I will take a lunch date with your employee allnatural as a substitute however
    Coop, first nice to see you as always, you'll have to stop by the shop on a Monday if possible, only day I'm in there now

    PM me for my email/contact info
    MAN Sports Online Lead Rep and Sales
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