Did you know your SAAs are not actually SAAs? - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 3

Did you know your SAAs are not actually SAAs?

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    a complete chain reference would be identical to ff as indicated used in the study..and yes (again) derived from silkworm

    as to the sericin reference from peptide - yes you are correct there, and explicitly why we do not advertise that we have it in our product..i have never disputed this point

    as stated, we are awaiting communication from the ppl involved in the study, for further clarification
    no need to discuss further, will report back with our findings
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    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com

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    I have faith in our product. So much so that me and the rest of the guys are gonna give some away. Check it out.

    Who wants some R&R?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I have faith in our product. So much so that me and the rest of the guys are gonna give some away. Check it out.

    Who wants some R&R?
    And that's how you do that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    And that's how you do that!
    Silence a mob?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    Silence a mob?
    Silence my mom
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    DIRECT FROM THE MANUFACTURER OF THE SAAs


    copy of excerpt from the manufacturer, to the owner of our company:



    Basically I believe there is no peptides of different sizes involved, however this could be custom made

    in case you feel peptides of different sizes is what you prefer for the SAA, this is not difficult for us



    Sericin and Fibroin are only the names of different form of silk protein, so it is impossible for SAA to

    contain Sericin or Fibroin, actually SAA are hydrolysate of sericin or fibroin


    thank you all for your patience in this matter
    we continue to strongly support our product, and believe it is simply the best of a unique idea of formulation that only a handful of companies are attempting to explore at this time..we will continue to Redefine the industry with ground-breaking products
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com
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    Nice work Snags and Finaflex
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
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    Yes, obviously an amino acid is the hydrolysate of peptides, which are the hydrolysates of whole protein. That's what hydrolysis is...breaking a protein into peptides and peptides into amino acids.
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Snags had it covered from the get-go. If a product contains amino acids (of any form) then why would it contain silk protein?.

    Snags and iparatroop handled it well
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Snags had it covered from the get-go. If a product contains amino acids (of any form) then why would it contain silk protein?.

    Snags and iparatroop handled it well
    That's what my very first [serious] post said too...it doesn't say "hydrolyzed silk protein," therefore it has to be just free form amino acids
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    Been a while since I had read a whole thread comment by comment oO De__eb is smart...I don't like his methods though, but nice information thanks. So in a way to understand this...

    -The name SAA "Silk-Amino-Acids" is the name the company labeled it's Free Amino Acid product, because the source of those amino acids are from SILK WORK, hence "SAA" , a semantics game if you may?

    and so...

    -Sericin-S is a Peptide derived from Hydrolizing Silk Protein?

    Alas SAA =/= Sericin-S...and SAA=Free form aminos FROM Silk worms. And since no company has come hence forth to claim they have Sericin-S in their products, it was just a misunderstanding from a creative Semantic use of the name...This does not mean Finaflex's product isn't good, it just means it does not contain the Peptides De__eb "accidentally" thought they had because he did not understand where the name came from.

    Point being...Finaflex has a good product, just not the product he is looking for ! And he has another hidden agenda perhaps trying to call out a NEW product coming to the market...why do it this way? Who knows...smart man, but damn that was a kind of mean way to put things De__eb :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    copy of excerpt from the manufacturer, to the owner of our company:

    Basically I believe there is no peptides of different sizes involved, however this could be custom made

    in case you feel peptides of different sizes is what you prefer for the SAA, this is not difficult for us



    Sericin and Fibroin are only the names of different form of silk protein, so it is impossible for SAA to

    contain Sericin
    or Fibroin, actually SAA are hydrolysate of sericin or fibroin




    thank you all for your patience in this matter
    we continue to strongly support our product, and believe it is simply the best of a unique idea of formulation that only a handful of companies are attempting to explore at this time..we will continue to Redefine the industry with ground-breaking products
    This is simply...not true...your manufacturer seems to lack basic understanding of what's going on here...

    Sericin = protein

    Sericin-L & Sericin-S = peptides

    These peptides are demonstrated to both exist and show increased potency in both of the following studies:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16473778

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9501526

    Both of these studies validate the existence and absorption of Sericin-S peptides hydrolyzed from the protein sericin within silk amino acid preparations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    This is simply...not true...your manufacturer seems to lack basic understanding of what's going on here...

    Sericin = protein

    Sericin-L & Sericin-S = peptides

    These peptides are demonstrated to both exist and show increased potency in both of the following studies:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16473778

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9501526

    Both of these studies validate the existence and absorption of Sericin-S peptides hydrolyzed from the protein sericin within silk amino acid preparations.
    Whoa, you're telling me Sericin will create the michael jackson effect?
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    This is simply...not true...your manufacturer seems to lack basic understanding of what's going on here...

    Sericin = protein

    Sericin-L & Sericin-S = peptides

    These peptides are demonstrated to both exist and show increased potency in both of the following studies:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16473778

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9501526

    Both of these studies validate the existence and absorption of Sericin-S peptides hydrolyzed from the protein sericin within silk amino acid preparations.
    Can I just ask yah why keep up with it? In a polite way that is...you already got your point across. Now , what's the REAL intent of this thread? You know none of this companies have Sericin-C or Hydrolized Silk peptides...so what are you REALLY after?

    Or are you just bored...and wanted to come in and say: "Hey guys, the sky is blue and grass is green, but you hadn't noticed! So here's the info!" I doubt that ! Cut to the case hombre !
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    That's what my very first [serious] post said too...it doesn't say "hydrolyzed silk protein," therefore it has to be just free form amino acids
    Exactly. From what I've seen around and about De_eB stirs the pot a little to see how companies and reps are able to answer questions and how well they understand their products. Makes for interesting reading.
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    It's ****
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    Quote Originally Posted by WormyJackal View Post
    It's ****
    Strong second post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post

    Strong second post.
    Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by WormyJackal View Post
    It's ****
    Wormy jackal strikes again
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    This is simply...not true...your manufacturer seems to lack basic understanding of what's going on here...

    Sericin = protein

    Sericin-L & Sericin-S = peptides

    These peptides are demonstrated to both exist and show increased potency in both of the following studies:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16473778

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9501526

    Both of these studies validate the existence and absorption of Sericin-S peptides hydrolyzed from the protein sericin within silk amino acid preparations.
    Peptides are small groups of amino acids yes? Silk Amino Acids have the amino profile of a silk protein but not in the form of peptide chains therefore they can claim to be silk amino acids as that is what they are.

    If someone made a product called beef amino acids then I would expect an amino acid profile (not in protein or peptide form) of that of beef.
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    As an objective observer, I still feel De_eB is making a good point. The only positive studies on silk protein are based on silk protein peptides hydrolysed from silk protein. The ingredients in the existing products sold are silk protein free form amino acids, so even if the profile of these is identical to the silk protein peptides they are not the same thing. And not being the same thing means they have not been studied so one is assuming, without evidence, that the free form acids would act the same as, or in a similar manner to, the silk protein peptides. Whether this has been done duplicitously or naively, his point still stands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post

    Strong second post.
    Lulz keep drinking "silk" aminos...kids
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    Quote Originally Posted by WormyJackal View Post

    Lulz keep drinking "silk" aminos...kids
    Care to add any useful information into this thread other than "lulz"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post

    Care to add any useful information into this thread other than "lulz"?
    He has no useful information I'm sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WormyJackal View Post

    Lulz keep drinking "silk" aminos...kids
    Not really sure on the meaning of "lulz".
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    I will use WHATEVER supplement works best no matter what. If ANY other bcaa product produced better results for me I would use it. That being said, I've had better recovery and endurance since I started BCAA+SAA then with any other product I myself have used. I might rep for Finaflex but make no mistake about it. If something else worked better for me I would be using it.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    I will use WHATEVER supplement works best no matter what. If ANY other bcaa product produced better results for me I would use it. That being said, I've had better recovery and endurance since I started BCAA+SAA then with any other product I myself have used. I might rep for Finaflex but make no mistake about it. If something else worked better for me I would be using it.
    Yep. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I was using MBCAA+ prior to BCAA/SAA. My favorite tasting supplement in the world is MBCAA+ watermelon and it's a great product. I can't say anything bad about it. The guys at USP did a good job. I also tried a few samples of Endurance BCAA+ and that stuff was great too. Formutech has their stuff together. But in my experience, my recovery time has been reduced since using BCAA/SAA. To each his own, though. I try not to knock too many things before I try them. Unfortunately, not everyone thinks that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Peptides are small groups of amino acids yes? Silk Amino Acids have the amino profile of a silk protein but not in the form of peptide chains therefore they can claim to be silk amino acids as that is what they are.

    If someone made a product called beef amino acids then I would expect an amino acid profile (not in protein or peptide form) of that of beef.
    Well, part of this issue is honestly the fault of the people performing the studies. For some reason, the titles of these studies have used the terms SAA and hydrolyzed silk protein interchangably, despite clearly using hydrolyzed silk protein in their material preparation, and referring to sericin peptides in the text of their studies

    So while it is not dishonest to say that your free form amino acids from silk protein are indeed 'Silk Amino Acids', they are not silk amino acids in the context of the material that was studied.

    I know it might come across as if I'm splitting hairs, but my point in all of this is that people should be either adhering to the evidence suggested by published science, or doing due diligence on their own to publish data to support their claims.

    If you want to say your silk amino acids are going to have the exact same effects as hydrolyzed silk protein/sericin peptides, then demonstrate it. Don't just ask consumers to buy your product and demonstrate it for themselves.

    And in the end, the point still stands that if you consider the effects of silk protein to be elicited solely from the free form amino acid content, then why silk protein? A free form amino acid is the same regardless of source. Why pay a premium based on that source if it's irrelevant? Does anyone have data to suggest that free form amino acids from silk outperform free form amino acids from any other source assuming an identical profile?

    And finally, I'm now pretty sure no company has put out a sericin-peptide/hydrolzyed silk protein product, so I'll be attempting to procure my own for self-testing purposes. Will update eventually after I get quotes back from some people.
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    Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I know of a company that DID sell the silk peptides. However, I don't have any information on whether or not they have the specific peptides intact. If I remember correctly the price was about... $150 a lbs. All the information has been taken down since.

    The company was PF.

    Didn't buy one myself as I just thought that eating BUNDAEGI would be good enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokutoshura View Post
    Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I know of a company that DID sell the silk peptides. However, I don't have any information on whether or not they have the specific peptides intact. If I remember correctly the price was about... $150 a lbs. All the information has been taken down since.

    The company was PF.

    Didn't buy one myself as I just thought that eating BUNDAEGI would be good enough.
    What is PF?
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    What is PF?
    Prohormone Forum? ?? PHF??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Dan View Post

    Now I may not be "down" with the science lingo but I believe he was referring to P.F. Changs. It is believe their special sauce contains SAA.
    I sense an Anabolic cheat meal has been discovered then!
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    Protein Factory. I don't really like saying their name after I stopped buying from them years ago (and of course the new spinach extract preworkout isn't helping my opinion). I only got tipped about the product while doing random searches for information about SAA a while back.

    If you search protein factory meso-morphatein, you'll get the brief blog post about it. However, the product page is gone.

    If the real street price for the stuff is over $100 a pound then I'd rather just buy 30 cans of cooked silkworms from Korea and log myself eating them for a month to see if they help muscle growth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokutoshura View Post
    Protein Factory. I don't really like saying their name after I stopped buying from them years ago (and of course the new spinach extract preworkout isn't helping my opinion). I only got tipped about the product while doing random searches for information about SAA a while back.

    If you search protein factory meso-morphatein, you'll get the brief blog post about it. However, the product page is gone.

    If the real street price for the stuff is over $100 a pound then I'd rather just buy 30 cans of cooked silkworms from Korea and log myself eating them for a month to see if they help muscle growth.
    PF Had a TON of citations in the last FDA 483 to be published on them.
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    mod edit: read the rules.
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    http://gnc.imageg.net/graphics/produ...clabel_pdf.pdf

    --

    So, ignoring the epic fail with the typo of polypeptide, could this be an actual SAA peptide product?
    Does Cellucor have reps on here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    http://gnc.imageg.net/graphics/produ...clabel_pdf.pdf

    --

    So, ignoring the epic fail with the typo of polypeptide, could this be an actual SAA peptide product?
    Does Cellucor have reps on here?
    Paging the solution...
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    Something else I just noticed, in the Royal sports BCAA+SAA product

    dipotassium phosphate is listed above sustamine in that sub-blend.

    There's 65mg of potassium in the product, meaning there's ~145mg of dipotassium phosphate.

    This means there's less than 145mg of LALG in the product per serving.

    Womp womp.
    SNS Representative - DeeB@seriousnutritionsolutions .com
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    TheSaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    http://gnc.imageg.net/graphics/produ...clabel_pdf.pdf

    --

    So, ignoring the epic fail with the typo of polypeptide, could this be an actual SAA peptide product?
    Does Cellucor have reps on here?
    I used to live by there.
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    "real" hydrolyzed silk proteins back in stock at the source I mentioned a couple pages back. Price is now at $93 per unit.
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