Did you know your SAAs are not actually SAAs?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    Is it just me or is De-ebs speaking a lot of sense! Unless I'm mistaken his observation about the SAAs sold and said companies and those used in the study warrants some thought and consideration.
    De_eb will be an asset to this forum with his knowledge base. I hope to see more of him in the advanced discussion section as well


  2. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Take yourself and your agenda out of here
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    De_eb will be an asset to this forum with his knowledge base. I hope to see more of him in the advanced discussion section as well
    coop has still from time to time somethings to learn
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    coop has still from time to time somethings to learn
    He was being sarcastic with the first post (I think!)

  4. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    He was being sarcastic with the first post (I think!)
    Touey has still from time to time somethings to learn

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    Touey has still from time to time somethings to learn
    Everyone has still constantly some things to learn
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  6. What is the benefit of SAA's anyway? Sorry for my ignorance but I haven't really looked into them that much...

  7. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Everyone has still constantly some things to learn
    “Wisdom cannot be imparted. Wisdom that a wise man attempts to impart always sounds like foolishness to someone else ... Knowledge can be communicated, but not wisdom. One can find it, live it, do wonders through it, but one cannot communicate and teach it.”-Hermann Hesse

  8. "Sadly most have no idea of what faith is because it is counter-intellectual and counter-logical/reasonable and therefore they reject it. Sadly far too many very intelligent people are victims of themselves. They have great intellectual capacity to define and metaphore what a paradox principle is yet are completely and hopelessly powerless to live by it. "-David Dunn

  9. Quote Originally Posted by mtinsideout View Post
    What is the benefit of SAA's anyway? Sorry for my ignorance but I haven't really looked into them that much...
    an amino chain unique in nature and sourcing, that may help provide more recovery/anti-oxidant protection/and endurance levels
    another form of aminos, to add to the profile matrix you currently consume

  10. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    So back on topic, is there an SAA product on the market that contains actual hydrolyzed silk protein with the associated sericin-s peptides?

    Because:

    -Finaflex
    -TrueNutrition
    -BPI

    appear to not be the material I'm looking for.

    Any more obscure online brands selling it perhaps?

    Side note: I've got nothing personal against snag, he's just a sales rep doing his job, and he does it well.
    Really interested in knowing this as well.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    an amino chain unique in nature and sourcing, that may help provide more recovery/anti-oxidant protection/and endurance levels
    another form of aminos, to add to the profile matrix you currently consume
    Thanks for the info
    Follow me on my log to life and lift: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229476-mtinsideouts-log-life.html

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mtinsideout View Post
    What is the benefit of SAA's anyway? Sorry for my ignorance but I haven't really looked into them that much...
    Animal research shows some increased time to failure, as well as some minor metabolic changes.

    Keep in mind that this information hasn't been backed up by any published data in humans yet.

    You also probably can't actually buy a supplement with the peptides desired in it at the moment, since it looks like nobody manufacturing SAA products is actually using hydrolyzed silk protein.

  13. the first go-round with the start of this thread was "supposedly" to find a product that contain hydrolyzed silk..

    now, it is promulgated by the very same individual who claims above, that no such research shows valid effects in humans...

    hmmm, was waiting for the other inevitable shoe to drop, as I knew it would
    some things are so predictable


    in any event: to the forum in general, we are in the process of contacting the ppl involved in the study, for clarification on the text of the published data and what was used..will advise when I find out more information

    thanks

  14. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    the first go-round with the start of this thread was "supposedly" to find a product that contain hydrolyzed silk..now, it is promulgated by the very same individual who claims above, that no such research shows valid effects in humans...hmmm, was waiting for the other inevitable shoe to drop, as I knew it wouldsome things are so predictablein any event: to the forum in general, we are in the process of contacting the ppl involved in the study, for clarification on the text of the published data and what was used..will advise when I find out more informationthanks
    Why are you so mad/defensive all the time?

    Lots of stuff isn't validated by published data in humans, that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into further. Can't do that without the proper material though. Which is what I'm trying to find.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Why are you so mad/defensive all the time?

    Lots of stuff isn't validated by published data in humans, that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into further. Can't do that without the proper material though. Which is what I'm trying to find.
    exogenous androgen perhaps?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Lots of stuff isn't validated by published data in humans, that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into further.
    exactly my point

    assuming a hydrolyzed protein was indeed used for this study (we are not too sure of this yet, as there is mention of both free form and hydrolyzed in there), why are you so convinced that our product will NOT provide equivalent results to a hydrolyzed source when we are utilizing same sourcing/same profile % of aminos, just different form?

    please explain

  17. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Why are you so mad/defensive all the time?

    Lots of stuff isn't validated by published data in humans, that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into further. Can't do that without the proper material though. Which is what I'm trying to find.
    1. It appears to be his natural psyche

    2. This is why I NEVER jump on the bandwagon of ANY new product, it seems that everything is now the over-hyped "Holy Grail" of supps. I wait for a while for anecdotal evidence as well, and there are particular members whom I trust as valid sources of information.
    -OMEGA RecoverBro-
    When an omega male is born it's game over



  18. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    exactly my point

    assuming a hydrolyzed protein was indeed used for this study (we are not too sure of this yet, as there is mention of both free form and hydrolyzed in there), why are you so convinced that our product will NOT provide equivalent results to a hydrolyzed source when we are utilizing same sourcing just different form?

    please explain
    Because, a hydrolyzed protein would contain Sericin-S peptides where as utilizing just free form amino acids would not.

    Peptides are biologically active in a huge number of body processes. Peptides are the target of a massive amount of pharmaceutical research.

    --

    As for why I don't think that the free form amino acids would have the same affects, I really think the best way to explain is to redirect your question back at you.

    If you assume that the effects shown in the studies are solely based off of the effects of the free form amino acids, then why silkworm cocoons? Why not just any other amino acids, since an individual amino acid is exactly the same regardless of source.

    A free form amino acid is a free form amino acid. A molecule of free form alanine from silk is the exact same thing as a molecule of free form alanine from beef.

    Why would they behave in some different way due to source when a molecule has no memory or knowledge of source? Why would they behave any differently than BPI or TrueNutritions "SAA"s that are just regular free form aminos in the ratios found in silk protein?

    Therefore the assumption in much of the published research is that it is the peptide content of silk protein that is responsible for its differing effects compared to general free form amino acids.

    --

  19. I will not speak on other companies and what formulation they choose to use..that is their business and no concern of mine
    what I will say however: we have chosen to not use a synthetic amino derivative that is not from silkworm, as it does not present a complete chain, in comparison

    we are the only company in existence (to my knowledge) that utilizes this source for such a product

  20. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    I will not speak on other companies and what formulation they choose to use..that is their business and no concern of minewhat I will say however: we have chosen to not use a synthetic amino derivative that is not from silkworm, as it does not present a complete chain, in comparison
    Do you understand the science you're trying to discuss? It really feels like you don't, and I'm not saying that trying to be rude.

    What is the 'complete chain' are you talking about? A chain of amino acids would be a peptide or protein.

    An individual amino acid would be no different regardless of if it's synthetic or from silkworm. The only thing intrinsic to silk protein with regards to a 'complete chain' would be a chain of amino acids in the form of a peptide (Sericin) that isn't found in other protein sources, and wouldn't exist in a batch of mixed synthetic aminos.

  21. a complete chain reference would be identical to ff as indicated used in the study..and yes (again) derived from silkworm

    as to the sericin reference from peptide - yes you are correct there, and explicitly why we do not advertise that we have it in our product..i have never disputed this point

    as stated, we are awaiting communication from the ppl involved in the study, for further clarification
    no need to discuss further, will report back with our findings

  22. I have faith in our product. So much so that me and the rest of the guys are gonna give some away. Check it out.

    Who wants some R&R?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I have faith in our product. So much so that me and the rest of the guys are gonna give some away. Check it out.

    Who wants some R&R?
    And that's how you do that!
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    And that's how you do that!
    Silence a mob?

  25. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    Silence a mob?
    Silence my mom
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position
  26. DIRECT FROM THE MANUFACTURER OF THE SAAs


    copy of excerpt from the manufacturer, to the owner of our company:



    Basically I believe there is no peptides of different sizes involved, however this could be custom made

    in case you feel peptides of different sizes is what you prefer for the SAA, this is not difficult for us



    Sericin and Fibroin are only the names of different form of silk protein, so it is impossible for SAA to

    contain Sericin or Fibroin, actually SAA are hydrolysate of sericin or fibroin


    thank you all for your patience in this matter
    we continue to strongly support our product, and believe it is simply the best of a unique idea of formulation that only a handful of companies are attempting to explore at this time..we will continue to Redefine the industry with ground-breaking products

  27. Nice work Snags and Finaflex
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  28. Yes, obviously an amino acid is the hydrolysate of peptides, which are the hydrolysates of whole protein. That's what hydrolysis is...breaking a protein into peptides and peptides into amino acids.

  29. Snags had it covered from the get-go. If a product contains amino acids (of any form) then why would it contain silk protein?.

    Snags and iparatroop handled it well
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Snags had it covered from the get-go. If a product contains amino acids (of any form) then why would it contain silk protein?.

    Snags and iparatroop handled it well
    That's what my very first [serious] post said too...it doesn't say "hydrolyzed silk protein," therefore it has to be just free form amino acids
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