PES Erase / USPLabs Prime / SNS Bulbine / DAA

[Grayson]

How do you guys feel about this stack?

As you can see from the pic below, I'm pretty fat, but I have some lean muscle. I was on starting strength and obviously did the GOMAD and got really fat and have these nasty fat deposits. Not to mention at night my cortisol levels shoot up. I'm in the process of cutting my calories to lose weight, and rebalancing my diet but I've been at a caloric deficit before and even though I managed to slim down, it was at the expense of a lot of strength. So obviously I went back to a variation of SS and I'm back to where I started.

I've played with supplements before, but never test boosters. And I know that I should try and run 1 or 2 at a time, but I'm curious to see what this stack might do. I've already bought Erase and the DAA and awaiting on the bulbine and have not purchased Prime yet. I've also purchased a tocotrienol (to combat any hairloss from the increase in DHT) alongside a multi-v and fish oil. Plus instead of whey protein pre/post workout I'll be using EAAs. A well-portioned meal pre-workout, ModernBCAA during, and Animal Nitro post.

I was thinking of running Erase for 8 weeks alongside Prime and DAA for 12. I've done my homework on Erase and know what to expect from it and frankly I'm excited as hell. Then at about the 4th week mark of this trial I would begin supplementing with bulbine.

Also, I'll be changing my workout to HST. The only thing that I haven't factored in yet (in terms of supplementation) is the 9-14 days of SD after cycle 1. I'd basically be stuck with another 4 weeks of Prime + whatever bulk DAA I have left. Would I continue taking these even when I'm not training?

Any assistance in my quest would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Adam

 

[toddmuelheim]

Among other things, why would you stop taking erase and continue the DAA for an additional month without it? And what is the SD days 9-14 thing you're talking about?

 

[Grayson]

Among other things, why would you stop taking erase and continue the DAA for an additional month without it? And what is the SD days 9-14 thing you're talking about?

According to PES, Erase should only taken for 8 weeks on and 4 weeks off.
According to USPLabs, Prime should only be taken for 12 weeks.
From the research that I've done, DAA can be taken for the 8 weeks alongside Erase, but a cool off period of anywhere from 2-4 weeks should be taken.
And Bulbine should only be taken for 6 weeks according to SNS.

And here's some info on SD (Strategic Deconditioning) :

What does strategic Deconditioning mean and how do we apply it to continue growing? Strategic deconditioning is simply a period of time free from training which is long enough to allow a reversal of some of the acute adaptations in muscle tissue, referring specifically to the repeated bout effect. This usually requires 9 - 12 days straight with no training. The term strategic is used because this 9 - 12 day period is not chosen at random or whenever you begin to feel "burned out" or even simply lose interest. It is done every 6-8 weeks depending on whether you finish your cycle with 5 rep work or with eccentric work respectively.
Don't confuse deconditioning with recuperation. Recuperation denotes a restoration or re-building of the tissue. This is what your average personal trainer commonly advocates. He or she will tell you, "Give the muscle plenty of time to rest before you train it again." This pattern of training will not only produce slower gains but you will inevitably plateau more quickly, albeit a fully recuperated plateau. Your muscles will be fully recuperated within the first 7 days of the deconditioning period. At 7 days you will also still retain most of the repeated bout effects. Additional down time is required to allow the muscle to lower it's defenses. 9-12 days is just long enough to allow deconditioning, but to prevent undue muscle atrophy.
Equally important as the deconditioning period is what you do during the 6-8 weeks of training. Standard practice is to split up your body into muscle groups and train each one separately or in groups on different days. This usually means training a given muscle once or maybe twice per week. If you were to train this way during the 6-8 weeks before your Strategic Deconditioning period you would be sorely disappointed in the result. This would only provide three workouts every 5 weeks, certainly insufficient to produce a growth promoting environment. Instead of traditional training practices you must use HST techniques to create a consistent environment that the muscle must adapt to by growing larger and stronger.
During the 6-8 weeks of training you will do full body workouts utilizing only 1-2 compound exercises per muscle group as outlined in HST. For example, for legs you will do either squats (or leg press) and leg curls. For chest you will do incline bench and weighted dips. For back do wide grip bent over rows and close grip weighted chins or pull downs. Pick one or two shoulder exercises that hit your weakest area and one exercise for biceps and one for triceps. You may alternate exercises for each muscle group from workout to workout. By alternating exercises from workout to workout you can utilize more exercises over the course of the week. This isn't necessary f r growth, but many people chose to do this with great success.
Each and every workout you should increase the weight you use for each exercise. This means 5-10 pound increments for upper body and 10-20 pound increments for legs. This obviously requires that during the first week you are not using your previous cycle's max loads. If the Strategic Deconditioning is done properly, you won't need to. To choose a starting weight for your exercises, go backwards from the weights you finished with at the end of the previous cycle. Allow for 6 increases in weight with the last increase being slightly above the previous cycles finishing weight. Once again, more details can be had by reading the original publication of HST.
It is this practice of frequent loading followed by Strategic Deconditioning that allows a person to reuse submaximal poundages to elicit new muscle growth.

Source: Hypertrophy-Specific Training

 

[toddmuelheim]

I'd run the DAA concurrently with erase for 8 weeks and stop both at that time. Erase has some great benefits, but it's chief purpose is aromatase inhibition. Some get estrogenic sides from DAA and some don't, but why risk it? The rest is tl;dr right now but maybe someone else can chime in on that and also about prime since I've never used it. I will say just by glancing over the small novel from hst is that I would caution you to not "major in the minors".

 

[Grayson]

I'd run the DAA concurrently with erase for 8 weeks and stop both at that time. Erase has some great benefits, but it's chief purpose is aromatase inhibition. Some get estrogenic sides from DAA and some don't, but why risk it? The rest is tl;dr right now but maybe someone else can chime in on that and also about prime since I've never used it. I will say just by glancing over the small novel from hst is that I would caution you to not "major in the minors".

Cool. Thanks, man.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Remember to save your lable for an SNS reload. The more lables you have the better free stuff you can get.

 

[R1balla]

I would run a 12 week stack (if you have the money for this)

weeks 1-8

Erase (3 caps) + DAA (3 grams) + Forskolin

weeks 4-12
Continue the Erase and DAA until the end of week 8. Once you finish, continue the Forskolin and take Prime at the 69 protocol until the end of week 12

also look into HIIT for your training routine.

 

[Grayson]

I would run a 12 week stack (if you have the money for this)

weeks 1-8

Erase (3 caps) + DAA (3 grams) + Forskolin

weeks 4-12
Continue the Erase and DAA until the end of week 8. Once you finish, continue the Forskolin and take Prime at the 69 protocol until the end of week 12

also look into HIIT for your training routine.

Could you please explain how Forskolin helps in this case? All of the research that I've gone over has shown that it's inconclusive for raising T.

And I was thinking of incorporating suicide drills or Indian sprints on my off days while on HST.

 

[kbayne]

Could you please explain how Forskolin helps in this case? All of the research that I've gone over has shown that it's inconclusive for raising T.

And I was thinking of incorporating suicide drills or Indian sprints on my off days while on HST.

Body composition effects as well as reducing fat.

 

[Grayson]

Body composition effects as well as reducing fat.

So if I got the cash, should I spring for some Anabeta?

 

[kbayne]

So if I got the cash, should I spring for some Anabeta?

That or Anabeta Elite which already has Forskolin in it. That along with what you have would make for a nice leaning out stack for sure.

 

[Jiigzz]

Remember to save your lable for an SNS reload. The more lables you have the better free stuff you can get.

This! Check out this link for more details: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/serious-nutrition-solutions/228035-sns-reload.html

 

[bolt10]

I would run a 12 week stack (if you have the money for this)

weeks 1-8

Erase (3 caps) + DAA (3 grams) + Forskolin

weeks 4-12
Continue the Erase and DAA until the end of week 8. Once you finish, continue the Forskolin and take Prime at the 69 protocol until the end of week 12

also look into HIIT for your training routine.

That is a nice set up and what I would recommend.

Body composition effects as well as reducing fat.

So if I got the cash, should I spring for some Anabeta?

As noted Forskolin benefits go beyond just test boosting. Considering you have never used most of these products I wouldn't add AnaBeta (Elite assuming you'd want the forskolin) in yet. Save it for another time if you want. DAA + Erase is something pretty impressive in its own right.

 

[JConWRX]

My first run with erase included DAA (Intimidate) and Endosurge. I saw some really good changes with those 3. Ran all for 8 weeks before starting a bulk cycle. My opinion on Prime is that it worked really well for strength and size but had to be dosed pretty heavily which can get pricey.

 

[toddmuelheim]

Might want to look into EC stack also.

 

[Jiigzz]

R1 Balla has the set up i'd recommend. Run Bulbine from week 4 till week 8 (until finished) and you have yourself a great stack.

 

[PrepNwa23]

Some really good advice in here. I'd run Erase and DAA for 8 weeks. Followed by Prime. But there is lots of ways you can go with the things you have.

 

[Grayson]

Awesome advice, everybody. Thank you so much. I'm going to follow todd muelheim's advice and go on an EC stack till my bf drops. Then I'm going to run DAA, Erase, and ABE for 8 weeks, throwing in bulbine around week 2 so that I finish everything nicely after full 8 week run.

My only problem is (and this might be a question for the nutrition section) is how can I gain muscle using a caloric surplus, but without gaining any belly fat? Every time I go into a bulking phase I always end up increasing my bf % and most of it ends up as a tire around my waist.

 

[Jiigzz]

Any increase in calories will likely result in a little fat gain, that is generally inevitable. How much, however, can be limited by only increase calories slightly above maintenance (i.e. ~250); other options include reverse dieting and recomps.

I personally like slow bulks and constant increases rather than fluctuating between high calorie and low calorie days as I used rest days as a time to grow (you are still anabolic for ~24hrs post workout). But to each their own.

 

[bdcc]

Any increase in calories will likely result in a little fat gain, that is generally inevitable. How much, however, can be limited by only increase calories slightly above maintenance (i.e. ~250); other options include reverse dieting and recomps.

I personally like slow bulks and constant increases rather than fluctuating between high calorie and low calorie days as I used rest days as a time to grow (you are still anabolic for ~24hrs post workout). But to each their own.

Wise man. Slow and steady progressions for leanest gains possible.

I think some people like using the term bulking for eating everything in sight.

 

[Jiigzz]

I'm still working out what I have to do to look like you Ben.

 

[bdcc]

I'm still working out what I have to do to look like you Ben.

Go against all scientific recommendations and develop OCD.

 

[Jiigzz]

Go against all scientific recommendations and develop OCD.

Haha, sounds like a plan.

 

[MuscleGauge1]

Anything mixed with DAA is magical bro you have a very decent stack right here and I love Erase. I like ErasePro as well this is one of my favorite supplements to take. You cant go wrong with products from USP Labs its one of my favorite brands to use for my supps. I think you really have a winning formula. The only thing I would add would be some var to this and you would be set.

 

[Grayson]

Anything mixed with DAA is magical bro you have a very decent stack right here and I love Erase. I like ErasePro as well this is one of my favorite supplements to take. You cant go wrong with products from USP Labs its one of my favorite brands to use for my supps. I think you really have a winning formula. The only thing I would add would be some var to this and you would be set.

Var?

 

[toddmuelheim]

Anything mixed with DAA is magical bro you have a very decent stack right here and I love Erase. I like ErasePro as well this is one of my favorite supplements to take. You cant go wrong with products from USP Labs its one of my favorite brands to use for my supps. I think you really have a winning formula. The only thing I would add would be some var to this and you would be set.

What took so long?

 

[horizons]

Why anyone would want to buy and take USP labs prime is beyond me

The ingredients are garbage

 

[R1balla]

Why anyone would want to buy and take USP labs prime is beyond me

The ingredients are garbage

its hit or miss. just because you didnt like it doesnt mean it doesnt work. i love it.

 

[WayneD]

its hit or miss. just because you didnt like it doesnt mean it doesnt work. i love it.

I've been reading about it, what do you love about it. Seems the reviews are mixed

 

[R1balla]

I've been reading about it, what do you love about it. Seems the reviews are mixed

This is my story on Prime (and no i am not affiliated with USP. I am with BioCor). Vets on here know I will give my honest opinion on products, no matter what the hype is. everybody reacts to supplements differently. here we go.

2008-2009 was the first time i ran prime. huge strength gains. bought two bottles and ran at 69 protocol. (the product is under dosed IMO). Ran it again a few weeks after my first run, and didnt notice anything from it. took a long break (about 6 months) and came back to it and had the same results as the first time. I have ran Prime probably about 5 or 6 times now. Sometimes solo, other times i have stacked it with other products....but i do know how i react with it without it being stacked.

My experiences is just pure strength. no weight gain, no increase in vascularity, nothing else but strength gain. almost every lift increased. it really showed on the compound lifts. I have logged it on here (stacked i think) a few times before.

 

[AdonisBelt]

Sick

 

[Anabro]

I think some people like using the term bulking for eating everything in sight.

You mean that ISN'T what bulking is? oops.....better get some alphamine

 

[WayneD]

This is my story on Prime (and no i am not affiliated with USP. I am with BioCor). Vets on here know I will give my honest opinion on products, no matter what the hype is. everybody reacts to supplements differently. here we go.

2008-2009 was the first time i ran prime. huge strength gains. bought two bottles and ran at 69 protocol. (the product is under dosed IMO). Ran it again a few weeks after my first run, and didnt notice anything from it. took a long break (about 6 months) and came back to it and had the same results as the first time. I have ran Prime probably about 5 or 6 times now. Sometimes solo, other times i have stacked it with other products....but i do know how i react with it without it being stacked.

My experiences is just pure strength. no weight gain, no increase in vascularity, nothing else but strength gain. almost every lift increased. it really showed on the compound lifts. I have logged it on here (stacked i think) a few times before.

Good feedback, thanks