Endurance athletes, a question for you!

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    Endurance athletes, a question for you!


    Hey guys,

    Man I haven't been on AM in forever! Long story short, I used to be HUGE into weight training. Back when I was dedicated to bodybuilding you all helped me learn so much its CRAZY! So I figured I would turn to you guys again.

    Well, after many years of weight training, I decided that being larger wasn't for me anymore. Although I was pretty lean at 6 ft 225, I didn't want to be that big. Well, I got into cycling, big time. I love it. I've cut down to about 175 which is really great but, recently, I've hit a plateau when it comes to weight loss. To get my power to weight ratio where I need it to be, in order to race next year, I need to lose about 15 more pounds. I'm looking to add in supplements for fat loss for the first time ever. I've been out of the supplement game for so long, it seems I know very little about whats good and bad anymore (on the legal side at least).

    I need to stick to legal stuff. I used to dabble in the dark arts of gear but, now that I'm in medical school, I don't need to be caught with any kind of controlled substance. I would never get licensed, and wouldn't have a job The main reason I'm blabbing on is to find out more about your favorite, legal, cutting agents as endurance athletes. I'm slightly concerned with using major stimulants, as the majority of my workouts are done between 75-100% of my max heart rate. I don't want to keel over in a ditch somewhere dying....I'm ok with using thermogenics but at the same time, I don't want to overheat while climbing and destroy my lactate tolerance. Right now I'm really thinking about trying out Alphamine. Could any of you fine men or ladies lead me in the right direction? As always, Thanks!

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    I hear COP and Citrulline Malate are really great for endurance. For PES products I would rather use Enhanced for endurance rather than Alphamine.
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    I'm also getting more into endurance type training lately.
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    The new Usp Labs Oep Super Thermo Powder may also help you out in the fat loss department and you could take it pre training also. I'd switch off between enhanced and the Oep Super Thermo Powder. Right now I stack them though I wouldn't suggest it if your not used to products. I've built quite a tolerance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I hear COP and Citrulline Malate are really great for endurance. For PES products I would rather use Enhanced for endurance rather than Alphamine.
    I was checking out Enhanced but I didn't notice anything about it being a fat burner...I'll check out the COP and Citrulline Malate.

    If my posts were unclear, I'm looking for a fat burner that would be safe for use during endurance exercising. I realize I will probably be in the realm of stimulants and thermogenics but I didn't know if one would be better than another for an endurance guy like myself...
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    The new Usp Labs Oep Super Thermo Powder may also help you out in the fat loss department and you could take it pre training also. I'd switch off between enhanced and the Oep Super Thermo Powder. Right now I stack them though I wouldn't suggest it if your not used to products. I've built quite a tolerance.
    Quality I'll check that out too. I've heard people rave about Alpha T2 but I wasn't sure about that one.

    Glad to know somebody else trying their fit in endurance training. Many people don't give it the time of day but man, cycling will make you suffer more than anything I've ever done in my life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumm3r9 View Post
    I was checking out Enhanced but I didn't notice anything about it being a fat burner...I'll check out the COP and Citrulline Malate.

    If my posts were unclear, I'm looking for a fat burner that would be safe for use during endurance exercising. I realize I will probably be in the realm of stimulants and thermogenics but I didn't know if one would be better than another for an endurance guy like myself...

    I thought you were just looking for something that would help with endurance.
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    I think the OEP Super Thermo Powder may work well for your needs.
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    Someone else with more extensive knowledge may be able to help you out better. I'm just trying to help quickly off the top of my head.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I thought you were just looking for something that would help with endurance.
    Nah I should have clarified better lol. My endurance is golden, just gotta cut down some more weight to pedal my ass a little faster. I'm gonna check out those supps you linked me to and see what I can work with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Someone else with more extensive knowledge may be able to help you out better. I'm just trying to help quickly off the top of my head.
    Shoot man I'll take all the help I can get. Thanks!

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    I was told PLCAR is the best carnitine to help with fat loss. Maybe purchase a bottle of the OEP Powder and a bottle of PLCAR and put a few scoops in your OEP Powder, and maybe a few scoop plcar in whatever your drinking during your cycling.

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/n...100-grams.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I was told PLCAR is the best carnitine to help with fat loss. Maybe purchase a bottle of the OEP Powder and a bottle of PLCAR and put a few scoops in your OEP Powder, and maybe a few scoop plcar in whatever your drinking during your cycling.

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/n...100-grams.html
    Dude that sounds perfect. I usually throw a plain electrolyte tablet into my water bottle so throwing in some carnitine would be zero problem.
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    Not sure I can be of much help, as I am an endurance athlete--but not one looking to cut.
    Haven't tried the OEP powder--but I can second any of the carnitines (ALCAR or PLCAR) for adding to your intraworkouts.
    You are going to have trouble finding a suitable fatburner that will not screw with your heartrate in training.

    Thyroid modulating fatburners like Alpha T2 are probably your best bet
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    Another thought from this morning's long run (that doesn't necessarily answer your question).
    If you don't already--you may want to strongly consider adding in fasted AM training.
    I am a huge proponent of it--in my case more for the metabolic efficiencies needed for the marathon but it works wonders for fat loss.

    On the supplement front--I have occasionally subbed in a scoop of Alphamine for my AM cup of coffee before a run w/o ill effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scherbs View Post
    Another thought from this morning's long run (that doesn't necessarily answer your question).
    If you don't already--you may want to strongly consider adding in fasted AM training.
    I am a huge proponent of it--in my case more for the metabolic efficiencies needed for the marathon but it works wonders for fat loss.

    On the supplement front--I have occasionally subbed in a scoop of Alphamine for my AM cup of coffee before a run w/o ill effects.
    Thanks for your input man! I'm usually really wary of fasted training (usually burn about 800-1600 calories during a workout) because I'm afraid to "bonk" half way through and limp home destroyed. I might have to give it a shot now. I'm going to look more into alpha t2 as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumm3r9 View Post

    Thanks for your input man! I'm usually really wary of fasted training (usually burn about 800-1600 calories during a workout) because I'm afraid to "bonk" half way through and limp home destroyed. I might have to give it a shot now. I'm going to look more into alpha t2 as well.
    Your caution re fasted training is well merited.
    That's why I never go out for a long fasted session w/o taking along an energy gel (I am sponsored by Hammer).
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    What's your diet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumm3r9 View Post

    Thanks for your input man! I'm usually really wary of fasted training (usually burn about 800-1600 calories during a workout) because I'm afraid to "bonk" half way through and limp home destroyed. I might have to give it a shot now. I'm going to look more into alpha t2 as well.
    If fat loss is your goal, you don't want insulin present in the blood. It stops lypolosis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scherbs View Post

    Your caution re fasted training is well merited.
    That's why I never go out for a long fasted session w/o taking along an energy gel (I am sponsored by Hammer).
    Carbs that illicit an insulin response are the last thing you want when teaching your body to be a more efficient fat burner.
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    Read up on metabolic efficiency training by Bob Seebohar (elite triathlon coach, Olympic team sport dietitian, exercise physiologist and strength coach)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post

    Carbs that illicit an insulin response are the last thing you want when teaching your body to be a more efficient fat burner.
    Perhaps you completely misunderstood my post:
    note: I never said that I actually TAKE said gel during a fasted training session, merely take it along in case it is needed to get home.
    Moreover, at some point (although a different training focus) it is necessary to practice fueling, and I have found the carb blend in Hammer Gels to be conducive to my competitive needs.w
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    OEP powder might be beneficial in helping you meet your needs

    OEPowder + HIIT work should help you accomplish your goals
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    If fat loss is your goal then I would go with HiIT training for sure this gives your body the best workout possible and burns tons of calories. I use it four times per week and get great results. I would suggest starting with 30min sessions and working your way up to 45 min and above.
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    Look into 7-keto
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Read up on metabolic efficiency training by Bob Seebohar (elite triathlon coach, Olympic team sport dietitian, exercise physiologist and strength coach)
    I have read Seebohar and largely agree for training purposes, but my marathons are run at an intensity past the 'cross-over point' and as such, do benefit from mid-race fueling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scherbs View Post

    Perhaps you completely misunderstood my post:
    note: I never said that I actually TAKE said gel during a fasted training session, merely take it along in case it is needed to get home.
    Moreover, at some point (although a different training focus) it is necessary to practice fueling, and I have found the carb blend in Hammer Gels to be conducive to my competitive needs.w
    Generation ucan, and ultramarathon runners
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    Hate to hijack the thread,

    but. . . Generation ucan looks interesting.
    I'll have to dance w/ the one who brought me--namely Hammer products, but that is just my experience driven bias.

    As for the ultra races, I have been known to strap on the trail shoes for a couple(make that at least 50) miles. Agreed--ultra training is truly where concepts like metabolic efficiency and fat-burning optimization make the most since, as ultras are almost entirely aerobic.

    Either way, if the OP is looking for fat loss and optimal health, looking into fasted training & Seebohar's work is merited
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    never used mzself but heard hyper fx by bsn is good energz booster for endurance,

    fat burners alphamine and dcp imho, I also like lean xtreme for added cortisol control
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    Loggers on this forum and others are really liking Peak Beta+ for endurance work. High dosed COP, LCLT and norvaline

    Beta alanine is of course another great option.

    Something like Strive (branch chains, electrolytes and peptopro) could benefit an endurance athlete a lot as well.
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    Max Pump would be another great option. It's highly regarded for increasing endurance and stamina as well as giving nice pumps. My favorite aspect is the lactic acid buffering effects. Current deal at nutraplanet makes it so the more you but the cheaper they are

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    What's your diet?
    My diet is pretty clean. As I'm still trying to cut weight I'm eating about 10% under maintenance and on long training days I might fall 20% below or so. As I said, its pretty clean minus a beer or two every couple of weekends. I do eat more complex carbs but thats usually after my bi weekly longer rides where I need to replenish. Thanks for all the ideas guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scherbs View Post

    Perhaps you completely misunderstood my post:
    note: I never said that I actually TAKE said gel during a fasted training session, merely take it along in case it is needed to get home.
    Moreover, at some point (although a different training focus) it is necessary to practice fueling, and I have found the carb blend in Hammer Gels to be conducive to my competitive needs.w
    I do agree with this. It would literally be impossible for me to finish my more intense rides at functional threshold without at least 100 calories in simple carbs with me and maybe another 100 in gatorade. I would bonk after about 30 miles and be shot for the ride home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleGauge1 View Post
    If fat loss is your goal then I would go with HiIT training for sure this gives your body the best workout possible and burns tons of calories. I use it four times per week and get great results. I would suggest starting with 30min sessions and working your way up to 45 min and above.
    Thanks! I already do a version of HIIT where I am riding 3 sets if 90-100% Functional threshold power (Almost like a max power that I can put out for an hour) with 3 minute breaks in between. I've had that incorporated for awhile now. Soon, I'll be changing up my intervals for some more intense, shorter sprints.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumm3r9 View Post
    I do agree with this. It would literally be impossible for me to finish my more intense rides at functional threshold without at least 100 calories in simple carbs with me and maybe another 100 in gatorade. I would bonk after about 30 miles and be shot for the ride home.
    generation u can
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    If you want extra endurance pair a good dose of BCAA with Beata Alanine and COP:

    i.e. Formutech Endurance:

    Name:  Endurance-ingredient-panel-Formutech-Nutrition.jpg
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    prevent muscle catabolism, and buffer lactic acid buildup. nuff said

    here's an article about the ingredient profile and what it does for an endurance athlete:

    Endurance BCAA Plus: 7 Reasons why this is the BEST BCAA On The Market
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    www.formutechnutrition.com------------- http://goo.gl/G8a4Ss
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