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EPHEDRINE

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post

    By the way I am reading the information, I am not so sure it is illegal for a company to sell the product into the US. Maybe I'm wrong.
    It isn't, but why risk heat from tha feds for not properly regulating it.

    When I buy it from walgreens, CVS, w/e, I have to swipe my drivers license, and sign off.

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    There was a time when you could walk into any corner store and purchase "Mini Thins" which were pure ephedrine HCL, or buy a cold med of a previous generation that had very little or no additional crap added to it. Currently, all the cold medicines made for sale in the US that contain ephedrine or pseduoephedrine contain acrylic polymers which are not actually made by the drug company rather a third party company such as Evonik who is know for their product Eudragit. Eudragit will not be listed on your cold medicine label even thought it, or something similar is in there. While these delivery systems have a number of purposes, one of the "secret" functions is to block the reduction into methamphetamine. They do this by binding to it and preventing the isolation/extraction of the pure ephed. Extracting the pure ephed is a precursor step to meth synthesis. That's why finding the pure stuff is a bit rare. The DEA does not want you to have it. This is all about our meth laws. So you really do have to be careful cause they have a hard-on for anyone that breaks the rules. Also keep in mind if you are in possession of pure ephedrine, and also happen to a have a few other things in the garage or in your medicine cabinet such as iodine, any acid containing hydrochloric acid such as the driveway cleaner muriatic acid and/or red tipped matches, you can be put in jail for a VERY long time. You will not be on their radar, but if you order these pure products, especially in large quantities you will be. So make sure you don't have any of these other products in your home if you are ordering the pure stuff and having it delivered directly to your house.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1976pianoman View Post
    There was a time when you could walk into any corner store and purchase "Mini Thins" which were pure ephedrine HCL, or buy a cold med of a previous generation that had very little or no additional crap added to it. Currently, all the cold medicines made for sale in the US that contain ephedrine or pseduoephedrine contain acrylic polymers which are not actually made by the drug company rather a third party company such as Evonik who is know for their product Eudragit. Eudragit will not be listed on your cold medicine label even thought it, or something similar is in there. While these delivery systems have a number of purposes, one of the "secret" functions is to block the reduction into methamphetamine. They do this by binding to it and preventing the isolation/extraction of the pure ephed. Extracting the pure ephed is a precursor step to meth synthesis. That's why finding the pure stuff is a bit rare. The DEA does not want you to have it. This is all about our meth laws. So you really do have to be careful cause they have a hard-on for anyone that breaks the rules. Also keep in mind if you are in possession of pure ephedrine, and also happen to a have a few other things in the garage or in your medicine cabinet such as iodine, any acid containing hydrochloric acid such as the driveway cleaner muriatic acid and/or red tipped matches, you can be put in jail for a VERY long time. You will not be on their radar, but if you order these pure products, especially in large quantities you will be. So make sure you don't have any of these other products in your home if you are ordering the pure stuff and having it delivered directly to your house.
    Oh jeez the limit is 7.4 GRAMS a month! that's more than 600 of those 8 mg pills. Enough for plenty of cycles.

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    That's actually A LOT! I didn't realize this until I just did the math. I'm surprised we are allowed that much considering all the other restrictions. I'm pleased to hear this.

    However, the max quantity laws have nothing to do with the precursor laws. The precursor law states that it is illegal to purchase, possess, transfer, manufacture, attempt to manufacture or distribute any two (2) or more of the listed precursor chemicals or drugs in any amount:

    EtherAnhydrous ammonia
    Ammonium nitrate
    Pseudoephedrine
    Ephedrine
    Denatured alcohol (Ethanol)
    Lithium
    Freon
    Hydrochloric acid
    Hydriodic acid
    Red phosphorous (matches)
    Iodine
    Sodium metal
    Sodium hydroxide (drain cleaner)
    Muriatic acid
    Sulfuric acid
    Hydrogen chloride gas
    Potassium
    Methanol
    Isopropyl alcohol
    Hydrogen peroxide
    Hexanes
    Heptanes
    Acetone
    Toluene
    Xylene

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    I would bet nearly all of us have at least two of the compounds listed in our house right.
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    Is there a recommended timing to take this before a workout? immediately before? 20-30 mins? Just planning on doing some LISS but want to optimize my results
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    Also I read that the difference between the EC and ECA stack is negligible so I am planning on just running EC, can anyone back this up or refute it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven2lift View Post
    Also I read that the difference between the EC and ECA stack is negligible so I am planning on just running EC, can anyone back this up or refute it?
    Anecdotally ECA > EC
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Anecdotally ECA > EC
    and scientifically
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    and scientifically
    Oh you and your "science"
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    and scientifically
    There is a large enough difference? Assuming a 200/24 dose of EC what dose should I run if I used ECA?
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    The aspirin has a purpose in aiding the effectiveness on fat loss of the combo.
    Scientifically.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    The aspirin has a purpose in aiding the effectiveness on fat loss of the combo.
    Scientifically.

    That's not a very scientific sounding statement. You need to use bigger words that I don't understand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    and scientifically
    I admit I have not read any research on EC(A) in quite some time, but I am positive I read reasearch at one time that suggested the A offered little to no advantage. Is there conflicting research in this area?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    I admit I have not read any research on EC(A) in quite some time, but I am positive I read reasearch at one time that suggested the A offered little to no advantage. Is there conflicting research in this area?
    I believe I read, that only in very obese individuals the mechanism of action of aspirin is important. Could be super duper wrong tho lol

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    Quick summary

    Ephedrine increases the release of noradrenaline. Noradrenaline then binds to the adrenergic receptor. A protein is then split and one half attaches to the activated adrenergic receptor and the other half binds to adenylate cyclase and this becomes activated which results in the production of cAMP and thus the thermogenic cascade. Now what does aspirin contribute? Noradrenaline is inhibited by prostaglandins. So when you take ephedrine you will get an increase in noradrenaline but you wont get an as increased cAMP output because prostaglandin will be inhibiting noradrenaline. Asprin inhibits the peripheral synthesis of prostaglandins so by taking aspirin you create the enviroment to help maximize your results.
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    And I just learned something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Quick summary

    Ephedrine increases the release of noradrenaline. Noradrenaline then binds to the adrenergic receptor. A protein is then split and one half attaches to the activated adrenergic receptor and the other half binds to adenylate cyclase and this becomes activated which results in the production of cAMP and thus the thermogenic cascade. Now what does aspirin contribute? Noradrenaline is inhibited by prostaglandins. So when you take ephedrine you will get an increase in noradrenaline but you wont get an as increased cAMP output because prostaglandin will be inhibiting noradrenaline. Asprin inhibits the peripheral synthesis of prostaglandins so by taking aspirin you create the enviroment to help maximize your results.
    Thanks, I didn't feel like typing all this on my phone.
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    I understand the scientific thoery of the asprin, but there are studies that have been done and E, C, and A that show little to know benefit to the A. Does anyone know of a study that has been done that shows a benefit to including the A?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    I understand the scientific thoery of the asprin, but there are studies that have been done and E, C, and A that show little to know benefit to the A. Does anyone know of a study that has been done that shows a benefit to including the A?
    I have read that in several places as well, in for an answer.

    Alternate question, how far apart from food should this be used
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    I understand the scientific thoery of the asprin, but there are studies that have been done and E, C, and A that show little to know benefit to the A. Does anyone know of a study that has been done that shows a benefit to including the A?
    There are tons of studies man. Aspirin is the least beneficial component of the stack, but it's still beneficial.
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    Do the Sida Cordifolia products you can buy on several uk shops contain real ephedra alkaloids? I'm wondering since you can get those very cheap on a uk bulkpowder site. On their websites it states 10% active alkaloids but not what these alkaloids are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    I understand the scientific thoery of the asprin, but there are studies that have been done and E, C, and A that show little to know benefit to the A. Does anyone know of a study that has been done that shows a benefit to including the A?
    Link to said study/ies
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgeier View Post
    Do the Sida Cordifolia products you can buy on several uk shops contain real ephedra alkaloids? I'm wondering since you can get those very cheap on a uk bulkpowder site. On their websites it states 10% active alkaloids but not what these alkaloids are.
    Bull shiit, don't buy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Link to said study/ies
    These are two that I found quickly.


    "There was no significant differences between the groups that received aspirin and the groups that did not. We conclude that aspirin does not potentiate the acute thermic effect of ephedrine and caffeine."

    Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Post-prandial Thermogenesis with Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin in Lean, Predisposed Obese and Non-obese women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disorder, 1996 Feb;20(2):91-95.


    "it was demonstrated that aspirin does not potentiate the thermogenic response to ephedrine in lean women and only slightly so in obese women. The increase seen in this study represented a 1.2 kcal per hour increase in metabolism for lean women and a 2.4 kcal per hour increase in metabolism in obese women over use of ephedrine alone"

    Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Aspirin Potentiates the Effect of Ephedrine on the Thermogenic Response to a Meal in Obese but not Lean Women. Int J Obes, 1991 May;15(5):359-366.


    The second study does show a very, very small advantage in the obese test subjects as compared to the lead test subjects. I will admit that I have not read the complete studies. Maybe their methodologies of testing comprimise the validity of their findings?

    I should add I am not anit-asprin. I'm just hasing out some of the info I have read that suggest the asprin is of little to no benefit. Apparenly there have been reseach studies that prove otherwise. I guess I will have to search for those now.
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    On the mobile, will read entire study.
    Wonder if there are any on athletes?
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    I cant pull up any of these texts but from the abstracts

    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post

    Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Post-prandial Thermogenesis with Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin in Lean, Predisposed Obese and Non-obese women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disorder, 1996 Feb;20(2):91-95.
    This one had too much aspirin (300mg) and not enough caffeine (100mg). Caffeine antagonizes adenosine and phosphodiesteraseand result are best seen when 200mg are combined with ephedrine (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8384179)

    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Aspirin Potentiates the Effect of Ephedrine on the Thermogenic Response to a Meal in Obese but not Lean Women. Int J Obes, 1991 May;15(5):359-366.
    This one didnt even combine caffeine in. It compares E vs EA which is just silly really. As mentioned above caffeine plays a very important role in ECA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post

    Gorilla Jack was the one I was familiar, selling the Kaizen brand, and with and from what I have been told they are no longer shipping to the US
    They aren't never got my order
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Quick summary

    Ephedrine increases the release of noradrenaline. Noradrenaline then binds to the adrenergic receptor. A protein is then split and one half attaches to the activated adrenergic receptor and the other half binds to adenylate cyclase and this becomes activated which results in the production of cAMP and thus the thermogenic cascade. Now what does aspirin contribute? Noradrenaline is inhibited by prostaglandins. So when you take ephedrine you will get an increase in noradrenaline but you wont get an as increased cAMP output because prostaglandin will be inhibiting noradrenaline. Asprin inhibits the peripheral synthesis of prostaglandins so by taking aspirin you create the enviroment to help maximize your results.
    Good post, thanks!

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    So what is the recommended dose for aspirin to include? Bit the bullet and ordered kaizen EC in bulk as it was cheaper. 12 bottles ephedrine and enough caffeine pills to make the 200/24 doses with it. No idea how to dose aspirin though, someone help an ECA virgin out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven2lift View Post
    So what is the recommended dose for aspirin to include? Bit the bullet and ordered kaizen EC in bulk as it was cheaper. 12 bottles ephedrine and enough caffeine pills to make the 200/24 doses with it. No idea how to dose aspirin though, someone help an ECA virgin out?
    81mg baby aspirin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven2lift View Post
    So what is the recommended dose for aspirin to include? Bit the bullet and ordered kaizen EC in bulk as it was cheaper. 12 bottles ephedrine and enough caffeine pills to make the 200/24 doses with it. No idea how to dose aspirin though, someone help an ECA virgin out?

    25/200/81

    25/200

    25/200
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    Thank you both. Interested to see how this works out for me as it will be replacing my alphamine doses. Wish I could just use 1.5 scoops alphamine as my caffeine dose in this haha. Giving it 30 days then a much needed stim break
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven2lift View Post
    Thank you both. Interested to see how this works out for me as it will be replacing my alphamine doses. Wish I could just use 1.5 scoops alphamine as my caffeine dose in this haha. Giving it 30 days then a much needed stim break
    Not recommended and I'm not recommending it, but I've (along as a few others on this board) used Alphamine as my caffeine choice while using ephedrine.
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    What's alphamine? Sounds like a steroid.
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    Jk
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Not recommended and I'm not recommending it, but I've (along as a few others on this board) used Alphamine as my caffeine choice while using ephedrine.
    Iv used alphamine as my caffeine source as well. I was nervous when I did it, but It wasn't that crazy. I just felt a little more jittery and increased body temp . I prefer just sticking to caffeine pills and bronkaid.
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    Cant believe how cheap 4ever fit ephedrine is! Being aussie sucks!
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    Any updates on your results. Very interested in your scheduling as far as EC or ECA to food to diet to lifting&training. Interesting in utilizing this stack as well and wonder what others have experienced in results.
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    Been on the stack only 5 days. Had decided to add it after a 3 week weight loss plateau. As I had never used it before I maintained calories the same to judge it's effects, glad I did because I weighed in 1.5 lbs lighter this week. using it twice a day
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