HICA

[Driven2lift]

This has really caught my eye lately and I'm looking to add it to my stack, wondering if anyone could explain it's effects better for me. I have come across seeing it used for recovery and soreness but also for better protein utilization.
Cellucor's BCAA's caught my eye but they are pricey and I would still need to add leucine to get the amount I aim for.

Any other product recommendations? HICA max seems like my simplest option, anyone have good results with that or another product?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Not to pimp, but PES Alphamine uses it specifically because of the study showing reduced fat gain and increased LBM. Cor BCAA also has a great dose of it, and I prefer it to leucine due to the direct body composition data in humans.

 

[The Solution]

Not to pimp, but PES Alphamine uses it specifically because of the study showing reduced fat gain and increased LBM. Cor BCAA also has a great dose of it, and I prefer it to leucine due to the direct body composition data in humans.

Props on the CEllucor Cor BCAA shoutout here Coop
You digging those tubs i sent ya?

 

[JudoJosh]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20051111

 

[mr.cooper69]

^ What I like about this is that the patent for HICA wasn't filed until after the initial pilot study (as opposed to other studies in which the current patent holders fund it).

Props on the CEllucor Cor BCAA shoutout here Coop
You digging those tubs i sent ya?

Best BCAA I've tried to date

 

[The Solution]

Coming from a R&D from a different company that speaks volume.

Gonna have to hit you up about a PES cutting stack here soon broham. Wedding in 6 weeks!

 

[Younglifter16]

alphamine has the studied dose in their servings from the study from what I read. Another good option is cellucor BCAA's, fine looking profile/taste on it.

 

[The Solution]

alphamine has the studied dose in their servings from the study from what I read. Another good option is cellucor BCAA's, fine looking profile/taste on it.

You are dead on man
3g of BA and 4g of CM + 1.5g of HICA = Serious for intra-workout

 

[Younglifter16]

You are dead on man
3g of BA and 4g of CM + 1.5g of HICA = Serious for intra-workout

I just wish it didnt have so much BA or i'd make it a permanent staple. (I prefer to seperate my BA doses)

 

[ericool007]

How does alpha kic differ from hica. I took an amino acid supplement with both of those added in. Any benefit to alpha kic or any more info on it and how it compares to hica.

 

[The Solution]

I just wish it didnt have so much BA or i'd make it a permanent staple. (I prefer to seperate my BA doses)

Can't win em all! haha

 

[JudoJosh]

Anyone know where I can aquire some bulk hica?

 

[mr.cooper69]

How does alpha kic differ from hica. I took an amino acid supplement with both of those added in. Any benefit to alpha kic or any more info on it and how it compares to hica.

KIC is the ketoacid of leucine (HICA is the prime metabolite). The data on HICA is a lot more convincing as it improved body composition, but there is evidence that KIC improves recovery and nitrogen retention as well (confounded by HMB).I've run Labrada HICA Max at 4 caps a day for 2 tubs. I highly recommend it based on both HICA content and the incredible taste, but I got it on sale. I'm not sure it's fair to quantify LBM gain, but my body composition was fairly good during the period (and regressed afterwards through a combination of stress and diet, chiefly).

 

[allnatural923]

Best BCAA I've tried to date

^This x2. Taste is off the chain and love the profile

 

[GigaPaladin]

So...Labrada HICA-Max, Alphamine, and cellucor BCAA have it...any other brands?

Also would there be a benefit to going above the standard dose and lastly is split dosing better than just getting the 1.5 grams at once like with two scoops of the Cellucor?

 

[Younglifter16]

So...Labrada HICA-Max, Alphamine, and cellucor BCAA have it...any other brands?

Also would there be a benefit to going above the standard dose and lastly is split dosing better than just getting the 1.5 grams at once like with two scoops of the Cellucor?

the studies point to 500mg split 3x, so thats easily done with a scoop of alphamine or cellucor bcaa at a time... or hica-max obviously.

 

[The Solution]

^This x2. Taste is off the chain and love the profile

Thank you very much for your support brother.

 

[koi1214]

the studies point to 500mg split 3x, so thats easily done with a scoop of alphamine or cellucor bcaa at a time... or hica-max obviously.

ProSupps L-Leucine Matrix has 500mg HICA in it as well as HMB.

 

[Younglifter16]

ProSupps L-Leucine Matrix has 500mg HICA in it as well as HMB.

thats also a good one, forgot about that one! loving the HICA explosion

 

[GigaPaladin]

So lets just say I take two scoops of cellucor BCAA pre and get my 1.5 that way. Would it not be as beneficial? I mean I know there's probably hasn't been comparative dosing studies since its relatively new but what does the current pharmacokinetics or whatever lean towards? Like is there sny indication thst would one large bolus dose be better of worse than three split up doses?

 

[mr.cooper69]

So lets just say I take two scoops of cellucor BCAA pre and get my 1.5 that way. Would it not be as beneficial? I mean I know there's probably hasn't been comparative dosing studies since its relatively new but what does the current pharmacokinetics or whatever lean towards? Like is there sny indication thst would one large bolus dose be better of worse than three split up doses?

There's no data either way, but split dosing would probably be better based on our understanding of mTOR and leucine dosing.

 

[The Solution]

There's no data either way, but split dosing would probably be better based on our understanding of mTOR and leucine dosing.

Since you know so much "Science" Coop dawg, how do you set up your diet
Meals spaced out how far (i assume 4-6 since you understand Laynes Research)

Just curious....

 

[mr.cooper69]

Since you know so much "Science" Coop dawg, how do you set up your diet
Meals spaced out how far (i assume 4-6 since you understand Laynes Research)

Just curious....

What I do is not "optimal" for a variety of reasons so I wouldn't really go based on my personal diet. I put greater value on work efficiency, social life, etc than I do on bodybuilding so I'm very "loose" with my diet. I'm more focused on just eating a balanced diet, eating when I'm actually hungry (rather than when I'm "craving" something), and getting some form of postworkout protein.

What is optimal? The data is so terribly conflicting. For muscle growth, the data tends towards Layne's research of 3-4 meals per day. For fat loss, the data tends towards intermittent fasting. Since body composition is a function of both of these, it would seem like anywhere from 2-4 meals daily (3 meals a day anyone? guess your mom had it right) would be most peoples' sweet spots. The issue changes completely when on exogenous compounds.

 

[The Solution]

So you would say for the majority 3 meals spaced 5-6 hours apart would be pretty optimal? What about dosing BCAA's between those major meals?

 

[dtrain13]

So...Labrada HICA-Max, Alphamine, and cellucor BCAA have it...any other brands?

Also would there be a benefit to going above the standard dose and lastly is split dosing better than just getting the 1.5 grams at once like with two scoops of the Cellucor?

Yeah. Neogenix Bodyforge 2.0.

 

[mr.cooper69]

So you would say for the majority 3 meals spaced 5-6 hours apart would be pretty optimal? What about dosing BCAA's between those major meals?

I don't know about "optimal," but given how our society works, its probably the most convenient without really losing anything. BCAAs between meals have no evidence besides Layne's theories and are frankly just too much work (he recommends adding carbs too, etc...I'm not carrying around a tub/shaker/carb powder all day long).

 

[burpees]

250 Grams Unflavored
Serving Size1Scoop(5g)
Servings Per Container50

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value*

L-Leucine 3000mg* **
Calcium HMB (Beta-Hydroxy-Beta-Methylbutyrate) 1500mg* **
HICA (Hydroxyisocaproate Calcium Salt) 500mg* **



What yall think of this profile ???

 

[burpees]

Props on the CEllucor Cor BCAA shoutout here Coop
You digging those tubs i sent ya?

Great Profile, need to try that soon

 

[mike0589]

So lets just say I take two scoops of cellucor BCAA pre and get my 1.5 that way. Would it not be as beneficial? I mean I know there's probably hasn't been comparative dosing studies since its relatively new but what does the current pharmacokinetics or whatever lean towards? Like is there sny indication thst would one large bolus dose be better of worse than three split up doses?

Wouldn't one large dose have a greater Bio-availability than smaller doses?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Wouldn't one large dose have a greater Bio-availability than smaller doses?

I'm not sure why you think that, but regardless, it's not so much about the bioavailability as it is what we know about leucine (from which HICA is a metabolite thereof). Repeated bolus spikes of plasma leucine/HICA maximize muscle protein synthesis, and there is a ceiling/threshold beyond which further plasma levels cannot augment MPS any further

 

[TheFugitive]

Gladiator is still in the works (1,000mg of HICA per serving plus other goodies)

 

[TheFugitive]

I'm hoping to get this out by fall

 

[dtrain13]

I'm hoping to get this out by fall

Do want.

 

[De__eB]

Yeah. Neogenix Bodyforge 2.0.

^ This.

One of the best products on the market right now. Yes it looks expensive, but if you compare that to what's in it to comparable supplements, or buying those ingredients individually it's actually an outstanding deal.

 

[TheFugitive]

Do want.

I'll keep you posted bro

 

[Driven2lift]

I'm hoping to get this out by fall

Looks solid. Been looking fir an option other than HICA max... I will be waiting

 

[mr.cooper69]

Looks really good fugitive, would buy

 

[RecompMan]

You are dead on man
3g of BA and 4g of CM + 1.5g of HICA = Serious for intra-workout

Will look into this for sure.

 

[USPlabsRep]

The only studyI 've ever seen on it produced a very small increase in lean mass in soccer players. I know the thinking is that since this is an active metabolite of leucine, then it must be super potent. But, I think leucine itself probably influences gene expression in a manner that downstream metabolites may not. So, I think this and HMB are examples of cases where it's not always correct to assume any downstream metabolite that is active will be more active or produce better effects than the parent compound.

 

[mr.cooper69]

The only studyI 've ever seen on it produced a very small increase in lean mass in soccer players. I know the thinking is that since this is an active metabolite of leucine, then it must be super potent. But, I think leucine itself probably influences gene expression in a manner that downstream metabolites may not. So, I think this and HMB are examples of cases where it's not always correct to assume any downstream metabolite that is active will be more active or produce better effects than the parent compound.

A pilot study in elite wrestlers arrived at the same conclusion as the soccer study.

I agree that leucine may have similar (or greater) potential, but body composition parameters in relevant populations have not been sufficiently evaluated as of yet.

HICA supplementation produced a considerable increase in plasma HICA levels after prolonged administration...something we don't necessarily see with leucine. So there may be a sort of "build up" effect that's exclusive to HICA. Leucine may be upstream, but that comes with complications of its own (i.e. various routes of metabolism).

A classic example is why Tyrosine, which has any number of metabolic fates, is inferior to L-dopa (which has fewer fates) for increasing dopamine levels. Leucine is by no means a one-trick pony that's metabolized into a ketoacid...it's rather complex actually. That said, when stacked against other supplements we take, Leucine may have more merit than virtually all of the non-staples.

 

[Grayson]

Any brand/mfg where we can get bulk HICA?

 

[Quadzilla99]

Any brand/mfg where we can get bulk HICA?

No, it's under some kind of patent

 

[kissdadookie]

I'm hoping to get this out by fall

Yup, I would buy this. Keeping an eye out.

 

[USPlabsRep]

A pilot study in elite wrestlers arrived at the same conclusion as the soccer study.I agree that leucine may have similar (or greater) potential, but body composition parameters in relevant populations have not been sufficiently evaluated as of yet.HICA supplementation produced a considerable increase in plasma HICA levels after prolonged administration...something we don't necessarily see with leucine. So there may be a sort of "build up" effect that's exclusive to HICA. Leucine may be upstream, but that comes with complications of its own (i.e. various routes of metabolism).A classic example is why Tyrosine, which has any number of metabolic fates, is inferior to L-dopa (which has fewer fates) for increasing dopamine levels. Leucine is by no means a one-trick pony that's metabolized into a ketoacid...it's rather complex actually. That said, when stacked against other supplements we take, Leucine may have more merit than virtually all of the non-staples.

Link to study?

 

[bdcc]

Link to study?

The pilot study in wrestlers?
http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/1

"In our open pilot study with wrestlers [15; unpublished] we assessed the effects of HICA on body composition and exercise induced DOMS. National top wrestlers (n = 7, 79.7 ± 4.5 kg, 26 ± 6 yrs) took 0.496 g of HICA three times per day after intensive training sessions for 42 days. They had at least 10 training sessions a week, each lasting from 1.5 to 2.5 hours. Since the subjects were competitive athletes they had records on their weights for years during their competition careers. During six weeks before the HICA period there were no essential changes in their weights. At least for the 6-week period before and during the 42-day trial daily diets and the number, intensity, and duration of daily training sessions of wrestlers were kept constant. According to DXA measurements the mean body weight gain during the treatment period was 0.84 ± 1.0 kg (± SD). Bone mass was not changed but total lean soft tissue mass was increased statically significantly. The most important finding of the pilot study was, however, that subjects when using HICA did not suffer from DOMS symptoms at all or they suffered markedly less than before the treatment with HICA. No changes in blood pressure, heart rate or laboratory blood values were associated with the use of HICA suggesting that its use is safe."

 

[USPlabsRep]

The pilot study in wrestlers?http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/1"In our open pilot study with wrestlers [15; unpublished] we assessed the effects of HICA on body composition and exercise induced DOMS. National top wrestlers (n = 7, 79.7 ± 4.5 kg, 26 ± 6 yrs) took 0.496 g of HICA three times per day after intensive training sessions for 42 days. They had at least 10 training sessions a week, each lasting from 1.5 to 2.5 hours. Since the subjects were competitive athletes they had records on their weights for years during their competition careers. During six weeks before the HICA period there were no essential changes in their weights. At least for the 6-week period before and during the 42-day trial daily diets and the number, intensity, and duration of daily training sessions of wrestlers were kept constant. According to DXA measurements the mean body weight gain during the treatment period was 0.84 ± 1.0 kg (± SD). Bone mass was not changed but total lean soft tissue mass was increased statically significantly. The most important finding of the pilot study was, however, that subjects when using HICA did not suffer from DOMS symptoms at all or they suffered markedly less than before the treatment with HICA. No changes in blood pressure, heart rate or laboratory blood values were associated with the use of HICA suggesting that its use is safe."

link was lead to the soccer player study.

 

[xhrr]

Yup, I would buy this. Keeping an eye out.

Would buy too, if it had 500mg more HICA and 1g more LCLT.

 

[RecompMan]

Would buy too, if it had 500mg more HICA and 1g more LCLT.

Easy enough to find from different sources.

You have to remember how expensive some of this stuff is to produce. Hica at those doses ain't cheap

 

[xhrr]

Easy enough to find from different sources.

You have to remember how expensive some of this stuff is to produce. Hica at those doses ain't cheap

True, I'm just picky. I usually buy bulk powders or single ingredients now though as I can dose accordingly since most supplements are underdosed and expensive with a few exceptions obviously. For example I love Alphamine, but based on the prop blend I know for a fact not everything is up to the clinically studied dose. So I do bend my rules sometimes if the feedback is overwhelmingly positive, such was the case with Alpha and even Recompadrol from your company which I thoroughly enjoyed.

 

[bdcc]

link was lead to the soccer player study.

I can only find that isolated paragraph and other references which said it is still unpublished.