Beet Root Pre-workout

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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    I am not claiming any amount of nitrates are dangerous.

    YOU'RE claiming Potassium Nitrate is dangerous, which is a flat out lie.

    Would you like to continue the libel and lies, or end it now?
    quite honestly I do not understand your angst VT?

    we can most certainly end this now, as I see no fruitful outcome for either one of us here..

    should you wish to converse further in less hostile terms, feel free to e-mail me
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    quite honestly I do not understand your angst VT?

    we can most certainly end this now, as I see no fruitful outcome for either one of us here..

    should you wish to converse further in less hostile terms, feel free to e-mail me
    You're directly claiming a product my company produces is dangerous. This is a lie. You are a competitor, and there is no doubt you are simply trying to protect your market share, however doing so with underhanded lies does not sit well with me.

    Potassium Nitrate is not dangerous, and is included in just about every single persons diet on a daily basis. End of story.

    If you keep claiming it is dangerous, there will be more than emails between us unfortunately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    You're directly claiming a product my company produces is dangerous. This is a lie. You are a competitor, and there is no doubt you are simply trying to protect your market share, however doing so with underhanded lies does not sit well with me.

    Potassium Nitrate is not dangerous, and is included in just about every single persons diet on a daily basis. End of story.

    If you keep claiming it is dangerous, there will be more than emails between us unfortunately.
    VaughnTrue -

    your threats, both veiled and otherwise, do nothing for me..
    I have stated I do not wish to engage in such petty communication, with you or anyone else

    nowhere have I stated your product is dangerous; if you can read "intent" on the internet, you are truly an accomplished individual

    I state emphatically: this will be the last time I give communication to you on this issue, on this forum

    you can conduct yourself and see imaginary attacks where you deem fit, it does not concern me further
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    VaughnTrue -

    your threats, both veiled and otherwise, do nothing for me..
    I have stated I do not wish to engage in such petty communication, with you or anyone else

    nowhere have I stated your product is dangerous; if you can read "intent" on the internet, you are truly an accomplished individual

    I state emphatically: this will be the last time I give communication to you on this issue, on this forum

    you can conduct yourself and see imaginary attacks where you deem fit, it does not concern me further
    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    in point of education to the forum pertaining to our formulation of Max Pump, please note:

    Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate that other supplement companies are using can be harmful to people's health.
    These ingredients are used to make explosives and used in gun powder.
    Our betaine nitrate is naturally occurring in red beets and we figured out a way to manufacture and extract bonded betaine nitrate.

    We do not publicly disclose how much nitrates is contained in this product (we don't disclose the manufacturing process of the ingredient); no one outside of our R&D and ppl who need to know, know the actual amount..it is a bonded material. Its not betaine plus nitrates.

    It is a reacted material that makes up one ingredient called betaine nitrate. When you test for bonded material it will have one single peak that represents the melting point.

    what has been discussed here, in regards to any concerns over Max Pump, toxicity, has been totally irrelevant and based on no factual support pertaining to our formulation..the fact any such accusations have been made - without knowing pertinent information - is rather unconscionable
    Do you have a poor memory, or is this dementia setting in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Do you have a poor memory, or is this dementia setting in?
    one more time: nowhere have I stated YOUR product is dangerous..
    I am simply sharing my opinion on nitrates in general in X amount, based on existing (albeit limited) data that exists

    I did not see you attempt to crucify cooper for, in essence, the same exact stance?

    funny, how you choose to pick your conflicts....
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    one more time: nowhere have I stated YOUR product is dangerous..
    I am simply sharing my opinion on nitrates in general in X amount, based on existing (albeit limited) data that exists

    I did not see you attempt to crucify cooper for, in essence, the same exact stance?

    funny, how you choose to pick your conflicts....
    My product contains a sane and safe level of nitrates per full serving. 600mg of Potassium Nitrate yields ~358mg of Nitrates.

    I believe that high levels of nitrates may lead to severe side effects, just like high doses of caffeine will as well. More is not always better.
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    Gotta love rep fights....
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    Im missing all the fun Quick someone tag me in!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Someone tag me in!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Im missing all the fun Quick someone tag me in!
    randori! go!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    I believe that high levels of nitrates may lead to severe side effects, just like high doses of caffeine will as well. More is not always better.
    and now we come back to the basis with which I made my own statement, that you seemed to take issue with..

    when the entire time, we apparently agree on the same concept of opinion

    I obviously share your view that there is pause for concern, past a certain point

    but it is still just opinion!
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    Mr.Cooper needs to chill out and keep posting, guy knows his chit is obv very valuable around here
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    I like nitrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by GigaPaladin View Post
    Mr.Cooper needs to chill out and keep posting, guy knows his chit is obv very valuable around here
    Out of this entire thread this is the post with the most win!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GigaPaladin View Post
    Mr.Cooper needs to chill out and keep posting, guy knows his chit is obv very valuable around here
    Truth.
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    [QUOTE=snagencyV2.0;4051412]the simple truth is coop - your "warnings" seem a little biased

    a great many ppl are currently/have been consuming multiple nitrate-containing products, for yrs..
    stacking items seems to be the popular method these days




    if its any consolation: im just a consumer, but I had a some reps from pes double teaming me this one time about my correct understanding on some otc test boosters. though they were silenced in the forum, they both sent me private messages subtractng my rep power (as if I cared about it.) I didn't feel like I was having a genuine conversation with them; while I would acknowledge their fair points and try to clarify any misunderstandings, they seemed to miss my entire gist while hammering me on some irrelevant detail. I had to laugh when I realized one of them sent me a private message asking me to suggest a type of product I had just spoken against thinking I was a secret undercover product rep. pretty upsetting though. I had to wonder how their employer, pes, would feel about their conduct, given that I will never use one of their products again due to that injustice; if they ever pull that again, I will contact the company. I was naïve; I thought reps had rep power because they knew their stuff; now I know you just get a couple of guys who bounce rep increases off each other
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    anyway, my experience with spinach tell me nitrates are awesome. im sure potassium nitrate is safe and I think someone just raised the explosive issue outside of a nutritional context, such as if ordering some causes the NSA to take heed of you; we all know potassium nitrate is safe and probably beats downing 8 aakg caps a day. I applaud both companies for using the effective dose. also, it is my understanding that only a small percentage of nitrates are converted to nitric oxide and my experience with nutrition is that we should never assume an awesome conversion rate. thus, the nitrate amounts look good to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescience View Post
    anyway, my experience with spinach tell me nitrates are awesome. im sure potassium nitrate is safe and I think someone just raised the explosive issue outside of a nutritional context, such as if ordering some causes the NSA to take heed of you; we all know potassium nitrate is safe and probably beats downing 8 aakg caps a day. I applaud both companies for using the effective dose. also, it is my understanding that only a small percentage of nitrates are converted to nitric oxide and my experience with nutrition is that we should never assume an awesome conversion rate. thus, the nitrate amounts look good to me
    The point I was trying to make earlier was that five ounces of spinach yields roughly one gram of nitrates. You are correct in understanding that only a small percentage of nitrates convert to nitrites and nitric oxide.
    Here's a good read, if you're interested.
    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/1/1.full
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    And the question was just posed to me whether I understand the difference between nitrate salts and the nitrates in vegetables. Yes, I do, and I understand the difference in how immediate they are or are not released.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    The point I was trying to make earlier was that five ounces of spinach yields roughly one gram of nitrates. You are correct in understanding that only a small percentage of nitrates convert to nitrites and nitric oxide.
    Here's a good read, if you're interested.
    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/1/1.full
    i started out eating the equivalent of 180 grams of fresh spinach via this concentrate powder. I estimated 1400mg nitrates in that (though possibly more than that as the product was designed for the purpose of lifting weights( and I noticed amazing effects within 3 days. I had to cut the dose in half due to the chlorophyll content being intolerable, and I have to admit I miss the nitrate content, so ive turned to supplemental nitrates. to be honest, if I ever heard of someone getting cancer or low blood pressure from something, that's on them; I mean, how can spinach be blamed for a possible cancer connection when everyone who has ever eaten it is exposed to pollution, xrays ect. its absurd. again, there are people who live with low blood pressure their whole lives and don't know it (usually anemic.) someone like that could blame spinach or a supplement for their problem and it would probably pass muster with the FDA, but that has nothing to do with the benefits something has to someone who is taking something responsively. at 1400 spinach nitrate and even at half of that, I notice increased appetite, better recovery, and muscle hardness. those are all positives, so im glad there aren't any bs safetly restrictions on that
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    Sooooo basically Popeye wasn't full of sh.t that while time
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    Sooooo basically Popeye wasn't full of sh.t that while time
    That's what I'm getting from this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    Sooooo basically Popeye wasn't full of sh.t that while time
    the guy who sold me the spinach claims people doubled their reps in 7 days. I found that hard to believe having been pumped out of my mind on 8g of aakg a day and not seeing that significant increase in endurance. what Im going to find out is if the benefits of the spinach are entirely due to nitrates or if, say, the vitamin A etc is also contributing in the improved muscle contractions from more calcum being released.
    has anyone heard of that kind of improved repition for nitrates alone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    since there is nothing really to talk about including the basis of such frivolous litigation, i'll not waste the time here

    take care
    Since RK has patent filef for external sources of nitrates (beet root) ,wouldnt your product fall into that category? This is where it gets a little confusing

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Since RK has patent filef for external sources of nitrates (beet root) ,wouldnt your product fall into that category? This is where it gets a little confusing
    no, we have no worries, feel everything will come out just fine in court
    but honestly - I don't wish to waste time discussing this, as it is not fruitful for anyone, and will not comment further
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    all that matters to me is companies getting supps to the public. im sure any patents would have to do with the method of extraction, as beets belong to all of us. the slightest variences make for a totally different method; mr coffee had 20 patents, and obviously theres a million ways around that since hes not the only game in town. thank god for that. anyway, who is RK? do they make any nitrate products?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Since RK has patent filef for external sources of nitrates (beet root) ,wouldnt your product fall into that category? This is where it gets a little confusing
    If I remember correctly, his patent is one amino acids + nitrate salt and not on nitrate itself. I think it was specifically creatine nitrate he filed for but also included all aminos as well. I know a while back it was being challenged (by gaspari?) But didnt really follow it enough to know what the outcome of that was or what his claim to nitrate bound aminos currently is
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    If I remember correctly, his patent is one amino acids + nitrate salt and not on nitrate itself. I think it was specifically creatine nitrate he filed for but also included all aminos as well. I know a while back it was being challenged (by gaspari?) But didnt really follow it enough to know what the outcome of that was or what his claim to nitrate bound aminos currently is
    Check his forum. It lists the patent app # for external sources as well

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