Mass FX Black NMDAA

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    Mass FX Black NMDAA


    How is this aspartic acid different from intimidate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
    How is this aspartic acid different from intimidate?
    Intimidate is NMDA and MFX is NMA. Ill post up more info on the difference later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AthleticXtreme View Post
    Intimidate is NMDA and MFX is NMA. Ill post up more info on the difference later.
    Thanks, I am interested in the difference.
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    NMA and NMDA bind to the NMDA receptor at very different strengths. I have seen claims here on AM that NMA is 50% the potency of NMDA, however I have not seen studies indicating this personally.
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    Here is the document I wanted to get you. It is from the manufacturer and explains the differences in pretty good detail.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/137795468/...DAA-Comparison
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    NMA and NMDA bind to the NMDA receptor at very different strengths. I have seen claims here on AM that NMA is 50% the potency of NMDA, however I have not seen studies indicating this personally.
    They bind at exactly the same strength. NMA, due to lack of levorotary or dextrorotary specification, is a racemic mixture of N-Methyl-Aspartic Acid. So equal potency, 50% less of active ingredient
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    They bind at exactly the same strength. NMA, due to lack of levorotary or dextrorotary specification, is a racemic mixture of N-Methyl-Aspartic Acid. So equal potency, 50% less of active ingredient
    That explains the cost discrepancy. Any reason NMA isn't more common in sports supplements?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    They bind at exactly the same strength. NMA, due to lack of levorotary or dextrorotary specification, is a racemic mixture of N-Methyl-Aspartic Acid. So equal potency, 50% less of active ingredient
    very interesting. not sure why one would go for a 50/50 mix instead of just pure NMDA
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    Quote Originally Posted by manstr View Post
    That explains the cost discrepancy. Any reason NMA isn't more common in sports supplements?
    I believe we are the first company to use it. The big benefit is you can get the same activity as NMDA by doubling the amount for a fraction of the cost. This allows you to bring the retail cost down for the customer. You will see a lot more of this ingredient from other companies soon. The licensing company is doing a lot of marketing in trade magazines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AthleticXtreme View Post
    I believe we are the first company to use it. The big benefit is you can get the same activity as NMDA by doubling the amount for a fraction of the cost. This allows you to bring the retail cost down for the customer. You will see a lot more of this ingredient from other companies soon. The licensing company is doing a lot of marketing in trade magazines.
    Makes sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    very interesting. not sure why one would go for a 50/50 mix instead of just pure NMDA
    It sounds inefficient, right? But it's not. The DL is actually the superior form.

    First, most studies on animals using "NMDA" have used the DL form, and if you go to the end of a thesis and look at the reagent source references you'll see these kinds of details. That means the L form is pretty much discounted by researchers as inactive, and non-competing at the receptor, such that NMA is assumed to be 50% the potency of NMDA.

    However, it looks like NMA is closer to 72% the potency of NMDA, which indicates great over-unity because it should only be 50% if the L is useless. In other words NMDA give 100% effect at 100% dose, but NMA give 72% effect with only 50% the amount of NMDA. That's over 40% more efficient than pure NMDA. Not only that, but other studies show NMA to only possess 45-65% of the toxicity potential of NMDA, further increasing the desirability of the racemic form and making it clearly more efficient than the pure D isomer.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8707716

    So still getting 72% of the results for ~55% of the sides is the way to go. More bang for the buck with less potential for sides.

    How does NMA achieve the extra 22% over-unity? Not sure what the mechanism is yet. Perhaps the L form acts as a repository precursor and the body eventually converts it into the D isomer, or maybe there is some allosteric synergism at adjacent channels or sub-receptors, not sure. But it's an interesting advantage of NMA which makes it the best option IMO.
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    what side effects do you speak of? We havent seen any with our use of NMDA.
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    NMDA substrates have been extensively exploited to study experimental excitotoxicity models, but like you I haven't experienced or observed any sides either.
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    one of the reasons why d-isomers are used for this modality (in humans) is because l-selective BBB transporters are easily competitively saturated by other l-isomer amino acids in the blood. d-isomers are far less common and so more d-isomer is transported into the CNS. l-isomers are also more effectively effluxed. rats have mildly different transport mechanisms and so murine models must be closely analyzed.
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    Are l-isomers more effectively effluxed because they're more available for effluxing (aren't occupying a receptor) or because of pump/transporter affinity?

    There are certainly some basic generalizations about stereoisomers as it pertaining to various CNS systems, but the situation is always a dynamic one.
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    in humans, the influx of amino acids into the CNS is saturatable in a stereospecific manner. conversly, the efflux is not saturatable, and d-isomers are specifically retained. so, ultimately, d-isomers are more effeciently transported across the BBB and they are also less effectively effluxed.
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    That's my point. One can say these isomers are 'less effectively effluxed', but that wording is somewhat misleading. It makes it sound as if some check valve is incorporated into the efflux mechanism. To say that they are more effectively accumulated and retained seems like a more accurate way to state it, though I don't wish to sound trivial and do appreciate your insights.

    How would you account for the high relative potency of NMA compared to NMDA? Granted, the results must be considered using swine data, but it's a fascinating result. The d-isomer possessed 100% activity (the standard), the quantitative equivalent of the l-isomer yielded 0% activity, and the racemic compound demonstrated 72% potency. Interesting, no?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    That's my point. One can say these isomers are 'less effectively effluxed', but that wording is somewhat misleading. It makes it sound as if some check valve is incorporated into the efflux mechanism. To say that they are more effectively accumulated and retained seems like a more accurate way to state it, though I don't wish to sound trivial and do appreciate your insights.

    How would you account for the high relative potency of NMA compared to NMDA? Granted, the results must be considered using swine data, but it's a fascinating result. The d-isomer possessed 100% activity (the standard), the quantitative equivalent of the l-isomer yielded 0% activity, and the racemic compound demonstrated 72% potency. Interesting, no?
    I assume you are referencing this study (journalofanimalscience. org/content/74/3/597.long) where 2.5 mg/kg of NMA was equivalent to 1.25 mg/kg NMDA? Since 50% of NMA is NMDA, it makes sense.

    In studies conducted previously (Barb et al., 1992; Chang et al., 1993; Estienne et al., 1989, 1990a, 1995), NMA was used with no attempt to determine which specific isomer(s) (i.e., d and[or] l) was responsible for increasing blood concentrations of GH. We report here that the d-NMA stimulates GH hypersecretion. In Exp. 2, injection of the pure dNMA, at a dose of 1.25 mg/kg of BW, increased serum concentrations of GH in a manner comparable to that after treatment with NMA at a dose of 2.5 mg/kg of BW. In contrast, injection of the pure l-NMA, at a dose of 1.25 mg/kg of BW, did not increase serum concentrations of GH.
    Pharmacologically, NMA would be considered less efficient, half as potent, although producing equivalent effectiveness when adjusted for dosage.
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    So in laymen terms, the new MassFX is NMA is dosed appropriately?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
    So in laymen terms, the new MassFX is NMA is dosed appropriately?
    Yes it is. Some on here have said its dosed more than appropriately. If Mass FX Black is one thing is dosed correctly for each ingredient. You could spend more on a competing product and just get NMDA or just get Divanil, or you can buy Mass FX Black and get multiple products in one, dosed properly for about the same price or less.
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    Chainsaw,
    Yes, at 3 caps/day the dose supplies the conventional 30mg amount of NMDA that most users agree is equivalent in effect to 3g DAA. Actually 3 caps supplies 33.75mg, which is slightly higher than the conventional dose by a little over 10%.

    At 4 caps, MFXB supplies 45mg of NMDA (equal to ~4.5g DAA) which is exactly 1.5x more than the conventional dose. This is designed for heavier users over 70kg, or those who wish to utilize higher amounts than are currently available with other products. It's a nice option because you don't have to buy an additional bottle to make use of the maximum amount.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Chainsaw,
    Yes, at 3 caps/day the dose supplies the conventional 30mg amount of NMDA that most users agree is equivalent in effect to 3g DAA. Actually 3 caps supplies 33.75mg, which is slightly higher than the conventional dose by a little over 10%.

    At 4 caps, MFXB supplies 45mg of NMDA (equal to ~4.5g DAA) which is exactly 1.5x more than the conventional dose. This is designed for heavier users over 70kg, or those who wish to utilize higher amounts than are currently available with other products. It's a nice option because you don't have to buy an additional bottle to make use of the maximum amount.
    question for dr. D or AX reps. Is it necessary to take a ai product like low dose erase alongside to keep estrogen controled?? I ask cause i know daa raises test but estrogen too, Also is it fine to go 8 weeks on it since it is daa?? the most ive heard recommended around here is 30 day cycles for daa products. Will 8 weeks mess too much w the hormone numbers?? or is it fine?
    thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinivan View Post
    question for dr. D or AX reps. Is it necessary to take a ai product like low dose erase alongside to keep estrogen controled?? I ask cause i know daa raises test but estrogen too, Also is it fine to go 8 weeks on it since it is daa?? the most ive heard recommended around here is 30 day cycles for daa products. Will 8 weeks mess too much w the hormone numbers?? or is it fine?
    thanks
    I haven't see anything to suggest NMA induces aromatase. Mass FX Black has an "AI" (7-methoxyflavone) which is effective for a flavone, though that's not saying much of anything. I'd run it 3 caps per day and take a 2-4 week break between bottles. It's a pretty well-rounded formula but you want to keep the NMA/Zinc doses lower than what they're at via 4 caps
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I haven't see anything to suggest NMA induces aromatase. Mass FX Black has an "AI" (7-methoxyflavone) which is effective for a flavone, though that's not saying much of anything. I'd run it 3 caps per day and take a 2-4 week break between bottles. It's a pretty well-rounded formula but you want to keep the NMA/Zinc doses lower than what they're at via 4 caps
    not that it might raise aromatase but with daa products, the surge in natural test will cause estrogen to raise as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinivan View Post
    not that it might raise aromatase but with daa products, the surge in natural test will cause estrogen to raise as well.
    Indeed it will. You can boost the T:E ratio by using something like PES Erase. Is it necessary? No. Is it beneficial? Yes
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Indeed it will. You can boost the T:E ratio by using something like PES Erase. Is it necessary? No. Is it beneficial? Yes
    How would you dose these coop? 1 am 2 pre-bed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    How would you dose these coop? 1 am 2 pre-bed?
    All 3 upon rising for me. It's suicidal so timing isn't a huge deal
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    All 3 upon rising for me. It's suicidal so timing isn't a huge deal
    Sounds good. Thanks
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    Very solid information in this thread. Another reason why anabolicminds owns
  

  
 

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