On day 4 of Fadogia Agrestis (T-Force)....

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  1. I think 15mg of L-DOPA won't do anything for you considering half life is around 1h and most of it gets metabolized before passing blood-brain barrier to reach brain and have effect.

    That's why usually L-DOPA is taken with substance that blocks dopamine decarboxylase (DDI) or else you just "feel" peripheral dopamine side effects.

    Entire body neurotransmitter and hormonal systems and it's positive and negative loophole are much more complicated than taking one OTC supplement for raising serotonin then dopamine and let's throw in one test booster...

    Raising dopamine can be achieved as well with several mechanism and from potency and amount of mechanism effecting it depends the effect and potential abuse, tolerance, addiction, withdrawal symptoms...

    Most potent dopaminergics are illegal and you can go to jail just having them in your possession cause they work so powerfully on raising dopamine levels & doing so also destroying your body (cocaine, amphetamines...) so ask yourself why are OTC dopaminergics not prosecuted since they also raise dopamine levels (hint cause they don't work or are underdosed to have potent and long lasting effect).

    If someone wanted to make great OTC dopaminergic at least they should throw in DDI - without it it's like taking something that you'll feel maybe for few days then nothing once your body starts with negative loophole.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by ahh123 View Post
    I think 15mg of L-DOPA won't do anything for you considering half life is around 1h and most of it gets metabolized before passing blood-brain barrier to reach brain and have effect.

    That's why usually L-DOPA is taken with substance that blocks dopamine decarboxylase (DDI) or else you just "feel" peripheral dopamine side effects.

    Entire body neurotransmitter and hormonal systems and it's positive and negative loophole are much more complicated than taking one OTC supplement for raising serotonin then dopamine and let's throw in one test booster...

    Raising dopamine can be achieved as well with several mechanism and from potency and amount of mechanism effecting it depends the effect and potential abuse, tolerance, addiction, withdrawal symptoms...

    Most potent dopaminergics are illegal and you can go to jail just having them in your possession cause they work so powerfully on raising dopamine levels & doing so also destroying your body (cocaine, amphetamines...) so ask yourself why are OTC dopaminergics not prosecuted since they also raise dopamine levels (hint cause they don't work or are underdosed to have potent and long lasting effect).

    If someone wanted to make great OTC dopaminergic at least they should throw in DDI - without it it's like taking something that you'll feel maybe for few days then nothing once your body starts with negative loophole.
    I just want to replenish dopamine a little.

    I would be glad if l-dopa would not produce the effects like the dopaminergic compounds you mention.

    I know how many of them work,I have browsed through their methods of action.

    It`ll be ok for me if the body gets used to the dopamine-I don`t want any euphoric effects.

    Addiction sucks ass so much.
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  3. BTW Fadogia does not work anymore.

    I don`t know if it worked at all-maybe it was the sunny weather that made me horny.

    In any case,we won`t have to guess,as BLOODS will be in tonight!

  4. Well,the winning streak of test boosters continues.

    Bloods have come in.

    Testosterone HAS NOT CHANGED

  5. I am my usual pitiful self when it comes to testosterone.

    A measly 11.2 nmol/l.

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  6. How would I rate T-Force,from my point of view?


    Well,it takes 10 days to feel,kicks in for 3,4 days (I am not sure if the libido was from T-Force,and not just the summer weather),
    and then leaves completely.

    Does not boost test.


    Doesn`t have any side effects,except for stomach discomfort if you take more than 1 capsule at a time.

    Only cost me 17.99$.



    I give it 2 / 10.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Killler View Post
    How would I rate T-Force,from my point of view?


    Well,it takes 10 days to feel,kicks in for 3,4 days (I am not sure if the libido was from T-Force,and not just the summer weather),
    and then leaves completely.

    Does not boost test.


    Doesn`t have any side effects,except for stomach discomfort if you take more than 1 capsule at a time.

    Only cost me 17.99$.



    I give it 2 / 10.
    That's a harsh review.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by jiggero View Post
    That's a harsh review.
    You can review it yourself if you want,I`m judging what it has done FOR ME.

  9. I am not sure if FA does not have problem with standardization or maybe better way to put it purity,

    like ecdy it is a hit or miss with individuals, but also some products seem to work others have problems, heard poor reviews on iforce fadogia, original t force, the new one that I am using currently (as a stacks licogenix and XFA) supposedly is fine.

    Bioforge had very good reviews and they used it also the Huge would never go into putting something that does not work into a product.

    I am sad to hear of your poor expirience, for me it works with a little bit more aggression that influences my performance in a positive manner;

    although I turn to be an ******* especially at the gym.

    Nevertheless I decided to do tropionol xp another FA product and either anabeta elite or if I can man pr-xt (have not seen it with retailers here) and depending on cash might look into compound 20 cause it looks promising.

  10. Well I've tested many OTC test boosters and also haven't found anything reliable or to work for more than a week then back to baseline.

    Also for a product that's less than $20/month you can expect reliable results even if it worked great during 1st time you tried it.

    Similar was my experience with Endosurge that worked amazing 1st time I took it - I mean on day 3 just chatting with a girl and my dick was up & hard like during puberty then after day 10 no effect or slightly over baseline.

    HCGenerate similar but only worked like day 3-5 then no change from my normal response when I don't take anything so either placebo effect or body adapts so fast to force negative feedback.

    If any OTC product for $20/month would make long term and reliable effect it would be most talked product like when Viagra came out - everybody talked about it.

    I guess getting maybe test boost up to 30% can be expected from OTC test booster but not for more than a week or 2 then back to baseline.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Killler View Post
    How would I rate T-Force,from my point of view?


    Well,it takes 10 days to feel,kicks in for 3,4 days (I am not sure if the libido was from T-Force,and not just the summer weather),
    and then leaves completely.

    Does not boost test.


    Doesn`t have any side effects,except for stomach discomfort if you take more than 1 capsule at a time.

    Only cost me 17.99$.



    I give it 2 / 10.
    So you feel that the libido boost was nothing more than the placebo effect?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Vinnyboombots View Post
    So you feel that the libido boost was nothing more than the placebo effect?
    I`m afraid it was,yes.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Killler View Post
    I`m afraid it was,yes.
    Libido can be boosted independently of testosterone (ala tribulus).Also, as I've stated before, if your T is low, no testosterone booster will help unless it directly addresses the cause of hypogonadism. Otherwise, you're just accelerating Step X of testosterone synthesis while Step Y is the broken/rate-limiting one.

  14. A lot of crazy things influence libido..:ie: hangover horny..ya can't beat it..lol...but ya can't understand why...lol....anyhow I think the foundation relies on individual T:E ratio that everyone's body reacts different to...but with Free Testosterone being a major factor.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Libido can be boosted independently of testosterone (ala tribulus).Also, as I've stated before, if your T is low, no testosterone booster will help unless it directly addresses the cause of hypogonadism. Otherwise, you're just accelerating Step X of testosterone synthesis while Step Y is the broken/rate-limiting one.
    I have been giving this a lot of thought.

    What you said a few months ago....about the "broken step" in testosterone production.

    But why wouldn`t I get a boost in T from one of these herbs,if they work.

    That step might be limiting my testosterone synthesis but if one of the other "steps" gets a boost,I should see some kind of boost in the end result too:T.


    I am convinced that the majority of these herbs stimulate libido in another way,irrelevant of testosterone,as you said,but are being marketed to us like "androgen boosters",because most of us think that a libido boost comes solely from androgens.
    And there is so little people that do bloods,because of their high private cost and the inability to get them any time you want if relying on insurance.



    In my case....
    I don`t know really what could be causing my problems.
    But I suspect something like this:
    I have huge swole balls.They are perfectly fine,without abnormalities,as confirmed by scan.Seems they are producing plenty.My LH is fine.
    My bloods show low total T / high E2.
    Seems this could be an enzyme problem:body is converting much of the produced test to estrogen.
    And why it is doing this I don`t have a clue.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Killler View Post
    I have been giving this a lot of thought.

    What you said a few months ago....about the "broken step" in testosterone production.

    But why wouldn`t I get a boost in T from one of these herbs,if they work.

    That step might be limiting my testosterone synthesis but if one of the other "steps" gets a boost,I should see some kind of boost in the end result too:T.


    I am convinced that the majority of these herbs stimulate libido in another way,irrelevant of testosterone,as you said,but are being marketed to us like "androgen boosters",because most of us think that a libido boost comes solely from androgens.
    And there is so little people that do bloods,because of their high private cost and the inability to get them any time you want if relying on insurance.



    In my case....
    I don`t know really what could be causing my problems.
    But I suspect something like this:
    I have huge swole balls.They are perfectly fine,without abnormalities,as confirmed by scan.Seems they are producing plenty.My LH is fine.
    My bloods show low total T / high E2.
    Seems this could be an enzyme problem:body is converting much of the produced test to estrogen.
    And why it is doing this I don`t have a clue.
    This is an incredibly oversimplified model, but just to give you an idea:

    Let's say

    A -> B -> C -> Testosterone

    Now let's say Step B -> C is broken. It occurs way too slowly and is rate-limiting in the production of testosterone.

    It doesn't matter how much I speed up Step A -> B, because step B -> C is still occurring at the same slow rate.

    So I could multiply the rate of Step A->B by, let's say, 1 MILLION. What's gonna happen to the rate of T production? Absolutely nothing, because Step B->C is still chugging along.



    Again, this is a gross oversimplification and testosterone synthesis definitely does not follow a linear pathway, so I'll give you a real-life example too.

    One cause of hypogonadism is heavy testicular oxidative stress. In this case, it doesn't matter how much you try to influence steroid hormone biosynthesis, because testicular function is compromised. You can keep releasing LH until you're blue in the face, but your testes will be largely unresponsive.

    Again, an oversimplification, but the point is this:

    There seems to be this idea that people can only benefit from T-boosters if their T is low. However, if the T is pathologically low and not due to basic factors like suboptimal LH output, then one really does not stand to benefit from testosterone boosters in the spectrum of testosterone synthesis. However, people with this "pathologically low T" may very well feel the effects of testosterone boosters (e.g. libido/mood) more than a eugonadal individual.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    This is an incredibly oversimplified model, but just to give you an idea:

    Let's say

    A -> B -> C -> Testosterone

    Now let's say Step B -> C is broken. It occurs way too slowly and is rate-limiting in the production of testosterone.

    It doesn't matter how much I speed up Step A -> B, because step B -> C is still occurring at the same slow rate.

    So I could multiply the rate of Step A->B by, let's say, 1 MILLION. What's gonna happen to the rate of T production? Absolutely nothing, because Step B->C is still chugging along.



    Again, this is a gross oversimplification and testosterone synthesis definitely does not follow a linear pathway, so I'll give you a real-life example too.

    One cause of hypogonadism is heavy testicular oxidative stress. In this case, it doesn't matter how much you try to influence steroid hormone biosynthesis, because testicular function is compromised. You can keep releasing LH until you're blue in the face, but your testes will be largely unresponsive.

    Again, an oversimplification, but the point is this:

    There seems to be this idea that people can only benefit from T-boosters if their T is low. However, if the T is pathologically low and not due to basic factors like suboptimal LH output, then one really does not stand to benefit from testosterone boosters in the spectrum of testosterone synthesis. However, people with this "pathologically low T" may very well feel the effects of testosterone boosters (e.g. libido/mood) more than a eugonadal individual.
    Thank you very much for taking the time to explain mr.Coop!

    I appreciate it....

    Just one more question:
    Why would I be feeling the effects of test boosters if my androgens are intact?

  18. Killler, I'm curious as to why you're not just sticking to your LJ100 for test boosting. From reading your prior posts it seems you had great results with testojack and you had the bloodwork to back it up.

  19. Do I need to cycle off Fadogia? I feel better when I am on it.

    Thanks JWest

  20. Quote Originally Posted by JWest0926 View Post
    Do I need to cycle off Fadogia? I feel better when I am on it.

    Thanks JWest
    My best guess would be, yes.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative

  21. Quote Originally Posted by JWest0926 View Post
    Do I need to cycle off Fadogia? I feel better when I am on it.

    Thanks JWest
    Yes.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by JWest0926 View Post
    Do I need to cycle off Fadogia? I feel better when I am on it.

    Thanks JWest
    You can cycle on to other test boosting supplements while off Fadogia. iForce has a healthy array of options for your perusal including: Tribulus 2400, Testabolan V2, Reversitol V2, Intimidate SRT, and Tropinol XP.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by laneanders View Post

    You can cycle on to other test boosting supplements while off Fadogia. iForce has a healthy array of options for your perusal including: Tribulus 2400, Testabolan V2, Reversitol V2, Intimidate SRT, and Tropinol XP.
    Tropinol XP contains fadogia.
    Use code "fl3x10" to get a free shirt with your purchase at Mind and Muscle

  24. Quote Originally Posted by laneanders View Post
    You can cycle on to other test boosting supplements while off Fadogia. iForce has a healthy array of options for your perusal including: Tribulus 2400, Testabolan V2, Reversitol V2, Intimidate SRT, and Tropinol XP.
    Please tell us all how tribulus will raise test levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Tropinol XP contains fadogia.
    And this.
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