good cutting stack / no hormones

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    good cutting stack / no hormones


    hello murica ,
    im from europe and id like to know which cutting supps you guys would recommend.
    i have to say that im 19 so i want to stay away from steroids, prohormones and thyroid hormones.
    im open for all suggestions
    best regards

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    Current weight and bodyfat and goal weight and bodyfat?
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    80 kg , bf around 15-18 % , goal : leaning out till summer beginning end of march , dont need to cut down below 10% imo ,dont wanna lose to much muscke weight
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    That's not a difficult goal really. Ever thought of ECA with cardio. Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin on an empty stomach with some induced sweating via cardio for a the short term fix. Once there...lay off it and maintain with cardio and always smart nutrition from start to end.
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    i once had some ephedrin for pre workout boost but i got used to it very quickly , and for example 100 mg gave me a bad feeling , nausea , and a high heart rate thats not good when doing cardio i guess. of course ill get a real clean diet and ill do lots of cardio .
    i thought about some products with yohimbine and maybe a stim thats not overdosed like oxyelite pro .
    thanks for your advices so far
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    Ok more advice will follow I'm sure....I'll get back to you after though.
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    a nice stack to control appetite, encourage fat loss, increase energy, stabilize mood, and keep muscle catabolism at a minimum would be:

    Lean EFX Refined
    Natural EFX
    some BCAAs (lots of brands, I like Endurance)
    Bulk DAA
    AD-3
    Lean Xtreme or Reduce XT
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    which product is better reduce xt or lean xtreme running either by itself...
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    Quote Originally Posted by confused91 View Post
    which product is better reduce xt or lean xtreme running either by itself...
    They're both excellent in my opinion. So grab whichever you can find at a good price
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    Any side effects?
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    Quote Originally Posted by confused91 View Post
    Any side effects?
    I never experienced any. Read up on the symptoms of insufficient cortisol and if you experience any of them discontinue using it or lower dosage. It is very unlikely that you will have any issue at all though
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomb View Post
    80 kg , bf around 15-18 % , goal : leaning out till summer beginning end of march , dont need to cut down below 10% imo ,dont wanna lose to much muscke weight
    what do you mean bf 15-18%?
    i think you mean you dont know
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    80kg=176lbsx .85 (assuming you are 15%, i really doubt it tho)=149.6lbs of lean=Not a lot

    You dont need to lean out the key to any cutting phase is a solid clean bulking phase, the more muscle the bigger the calorie expenditure thus more fat burning.
    (i.e. a supersport 1970 Charger will burn a lot more gas than a Pruis, bcus of the bigger engine)

    What you need to do is eat clean and the fat will disappear and muscle will appear
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Dexaprine XR for a stimulant, along with a cortisol product like abliterate would do wonders. Typically, 19 year olds are under a lot of stress from various things, at least I know I was. So cortisol reduction products like abliterate can really help. Dexaprine XR is a new stimulant based fat burner, and upgrade from dexaprine V2 which has always gotten a ton of great reviews all over.

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    Dexaprine XR for a stimulant, along with a cortisol product like abliterate would do wonders. Typically, 19 year olds are under a lot of stress from various things, at least I know I was. So cortisol reduction products like abliterate can really help. Dexaprine XR is a new stimulant based fat burner, and upgrade from dexaprine V2 which has always gotten a ton of great reviews all over.

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    good diet,weight training an lots of cardio...easy as that..
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    so you think i should not start cutting and just continue bulking tiill the end of the year but with a 100% clear diet.
    ill eat on training days : 250 gr oats + 40 gr whey + fishoil , post workout : 50gr rice cake + 40 gr whey * creatin , daa, bcaa , lunch: 150 gr chicken , 160 gr white rice , 25 gr nuts , evening: 150 gr chicken * 25 gr nuts , pre bed snack : 250 gr cottage cheese +25gr nuts + fishoil
    i dont get it , this seems very clear though i store some body fat ( okay i had a ****ty diet the last 3 months )
    what u think about my diet ? i workout monday and thursday upper body and tuesday and friday lower body , weekend ill do some mma
    what you think about some topical fat burner like dermatherm target ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomb View Post
    so you think i should not start cutting and just continue bulking tiill the end of the year but with a 100% clear diet.
    ill eat on training days : 250 gr oats + 40 gr whey + fishoil , post workout : 50gr rice cake + 40 gr whey * creatin , daa, bcaa , lunch: 150 gr chicken , 160 gr white rice , 25 gr nuts , evening: 150 gr chicken * 25 gr nuts , pre bed snack : 250 gr cottage cheese +25gr nuts + fishoil
    i dont get it , this seems very clear though i store some body fat ( okay i had a ****ty diet the last 3 months )
    what u think about my diet ? i workout monday and thursday upper body and tuesday and friday lower body , weekend ill do some mma
    what you think about some topical fat burner like dermatherm target ?
    I respectfully disagree. You should cut down to a comfortably low bf like 10% and then slowly bulk back up with a 200-300 Cal surplus.

    Adding muscle and cutting fat simultaneously works but us not the most efficient way to do things IMO. It also takes a huge amount of diet concentration with things like carb and calorie cycling, etc..
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomb View Post
    so you think i should not start cutting and just continue bulking tiill the end of the year but with a 100% clear diet.
    ill eat on training days : 250 gr oats + 40 gr whey + fishoil , post workout : 50gr rice cake + 40 gr whey * creatin , daa, bcaa , lunch: 150 gr chicken , 160 gr white rice , 25 gr nuts , evening: 150 gr chicken * 25 gr nuts , pre bed snack : 250 gr cottage cheese +25gr nuts + fishoil
    i dont get it , this seems very clear though i store some body fat ( okay i had a ****ty diet the last 3 months )
    what u think about my diet ? i workout monday and thursday upper body and tuesday and friday lower body , weekend ill do some mma
    what you think about some topical fat burner like dermatherm target ?
    Foods look good, daily cals and macros?

    I have no experience with topicals
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomb View Post
    so you think i should not start cutting and just continue bulking tiill the end of the year but with a 100% clear diet.
    ill eat on training days : 250 gr oats + 40 gr whey + fishoil , post workout : 50gr rice cake + 40 gr whey * creatin , daa, bcaa , lunch: 150 gr chicken , 160 gr white rice , 25 gr nuts , evening: 150 gr chicken * 25 gr nuts , pre bed snack : 250 gr cottage cheese +25gr nuts + fishoil
    i dont get it , this seems very clear though i store some body fat ( okay i had a ****ty diet the last 3 months )
    what u think about my diet ? i workout monday and thursday upper body and tuesday and friday lower body , weekend ill do some mma
    what you think about some topical fat burner like dermatherm target ?
    diet diet diet, tuna cans and chicken cans, protein protein. I tried the whole cutting thins long term didnt help, plus when i bulk i end up looking less fat and more muscle and then cutting really shows that muscle. I mean you can cut but it would be a lot harder to do it right and not burn away muscle specially without hormones or any outside help.
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    diet diet diet, tuna cans and chicken cans, protein protein. I tried the whole cutting thins long term didnt help, plus when i bulk i end up looking less fat and more muscle and then cutting really shows that muscle. I mean you can cut but it would be a lot harder to do it right and not burn away muscle specially without hormones or any outside help.
    your advice seems legit but how should i change my diet or workout routine according to you ?
    because i dont get it that i wont put up any muscle weight , i started working out two years ago but the first year with a bad diet ( you know a typical beginner " wow I drank a protein shake , the next meal does not need to contain a lot protein etc lol )
    the second year was better , i used more carbs and got my diet right but did a LOT martial arts ( 6 days a week taekwondo and mma ) so it was very difficult to put on any weight, now i only do mma on the weekend and 4 times lifting weights- do you think with that amount of food i eat its possible to gain some muscles ?
    best regards and thanks for your time and advices , really appreciated
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    Dexaprine XR for a stimulant, along with a cortisol product like abliterate would do wonders. Typically, 19 year olds are under a lot of stress from various things, at least I know I was. So cortisol reduction products like abliterate can really help. Dexaprine XR is a new stimulant based fat burner, and upgrade from dexaprine V2 which has always gotten a ton of great reviews all over.

    Mike
    I tried some dexaprine samples. Strong stuff, significant thermogenic effect that lasted pretty long. I would use it again. More thermo than ECA, similar energy boost for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomb View Post
    your advice seems legit but how should i change my diet or workout routine according to you ?
    because i dont get it that i wont put up any muscle weight , i started working out two years ago but the first year with a bad diet ( you know a typical beginner " wow I drank a protein shake , the next meal does not need to contain a lot protein etc lol )
    the second year was better , i used more carbs and got my diet right but did a LOT martial arts ( 6 days a week taekwondo and mma ) so it was very difficult to put on any weight, now i only do mma on the weekend and 4 times lifting weights- do you think with that amount of food i eat its possible to gain some muscles ?
    best regards and thanks for your time and advices , really appreciated
    What are your favorite Protein sources? things that you can eat for days? Chicken, tuna, turkey? what do you like to eat in terms of pure protein?


    I love me some tuna and Chicken

    This is my diet
    Breakfast-
    1 cup of oats~50-60 carbs
    2 scoops whey-60-70g protein

    Lunch-
    4 Tuna Cans~80grams protein
    some mayo not too~15g fat
    1 can of veggie mix
    20 wheat crackers~40g carbs

    Dinner-
    5 Chicken cans~80-100g protein
    some mayo~15-20g fat
    Wheat crackers~40-50g carbs

    If I workout
    Protein shake-2 scoops~60g protein
    Waxy maize~80g carbs
    --------------------------------------------------------
    protein 280
    carbs 220
    fat 50
    --------------------------
    2450 kcals on workout days

    and its plenty of food
    maybe not perfect diet but i can stick to it no problem and im making progress, find something you can stick to

    2450 kcals

    I was 220lbs now 190 lbs
    kept a lot of muscle significant fat loss sitting around 11% bf atleast i believe thats what accumeasure says i was around 16% about 2 months ago (almost 2 1/2 months ago)
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    Re: good cutting stack / no hormones


    Quote Originally Posted by confused91 View Post
    which product is better reduce xt or lean xtreme running either by itself...
    Definitely Reduce XT! Check the reviews bro

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    i can eat chicken , steak of course and eggs and if i have to i eat tuna.

    i stick to my actual diet since summer 2012 but did a lots of martial arts so i could not put any muscles due to the few resting days and probably calorie deficit.

    so the rotuine i posted above is a thing i can stick to , i eat that every day , mostly at the same time , same amount as usual - no problem for me.
    in total thats : 3120 kcal , 197 gr protein, 347 gr carbs and 100gr fat
    maybe i should add 100 gr rice to my 2nd meal - that would add 350 kcal but would not be very helpful for a lean bulk i guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomb View Post
    i can eat chicken , steak of course and eggs and if i have to i eat tuna.

    i stick to my actual diet since summer 2012 but did a lots of martial arts so i could not put any muscles due to the few resting days and probably calorie deficit.

    so the rotuine i posted above is a thing i can stick to , i eat that every day , mostly at the same time , same amount as usual - no problem for me.
    in total thats : 3120 kcal , 197 gr protein, 347 gr carbs and 100gr fat
    maybe i should add 100 gr rice to my 2nd meal - that would add 350 kcal but would not be very helpful for a lean bulk i guess.
    If you dont add some muscle take down carbs a bit and add protein. Like i said good muscle size will help with good cutting. Once you have a god muscle weight and not too much fat look into some of the suggested fat burners posted above.
    http://www.physiquefx.com/bmr-calculators/

    thats a good calcualtor to help achieve the goals you desire
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
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    maybe a dumb question, but arent cortisol supplements considered hormonal?
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    lean xtreme, px black

    adds cortisol control with a thermogenic and mood elevator, appetite suppressant
    Independent Review
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfredm005 View Post
    maybe a dumb question, but arent cortisol supplements considered hormonal?
    Not in the way you are thinking bro
    Independent Review
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcweinsx View Post

    I tried some dexaprine samples. Strong stuff, significant thermogenic effect that lasted pretty long. I would use it again. More thermo than ECA, similar energy boost for me.
    IMO there is a huge difference in a thermo being strong compared to being effective. Try AlphaMine, it is effective burns fat spares muscle puts you in a great mood and makes you feel solid. Nothing better out there fat burner wise. Stack that with a good diet, CLA and Fish Oils it's all you really need.
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    Fat Smack is getting good reviews.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by d1sc1ple View Post
    IMO there is a huge difference in a thermo being strong compared to being effective. Try AlphaMine, it is effective burns fat spares muscle puts you in a great mood and makes you feel solid. Nothing better out there fat burner wise. Stack that with a good diet, CLA and Fish Oils it's all you really need.
    I'm interested in trying alphamine, planning a cutt in June. Do you have a log? What type of bf % results did you achieve? Any ideas on your daily calorie intake vs expenditures. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcweinsx View Post

    I'm interested in trying alphamine, planning a cutt in June. Do you have a log? What type of bf % results did you achieve? Any ideas on your daily calorie intake vs expenditures. Thanks.
    Unfortunately I am super lazy and didnt keep a log. There are plenty on here though. I probably lost around 3-4% bf while still adding some muscle. I don't really count my calories instead the guy that does my diet adjusts the weight of my foods. Again it's the lazy mans way. I usually do well on 4-6oz meat (mainly fish and eggs with 1 red meat meal) with 6 oz potatoes ( mainly sweet and a few red) then top it off with plenty of veggies, one to two cups generally of broccoli or something else green. Good luck man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by d1sc1ple View Post
    Unfortunately I am super lazy and didnt keep a log. There are plenty on here though. I probably lost around 3-4% bf while still adding some muscle. I don't really count my calories instead the guy that does my diet adjusts the weight of my foods. Again it's the lazy mans way. I usually do well on 4-6oz meat (mainly fish and eggs with 1 red meat meal) with 6 oz potatoes ( mainly sweet and a few red) then top it off with plenty of veggies, one to two cups generally of broccoli or something else green. Good luck man.
    Thanks for the info. 3-4% is the amount of BF I want to get ride of.
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