How important is Glutamine?

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    How important is Glutamine?


    Do we really need to supplement with extra Glutamine? Some people say you "have" to have it but don't we get enough already from protein shakes and food?

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    Don't waste your money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Don't waste your money.
    This
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    This
    That's what I thought!
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    Glutamine is important for gut health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Glutamine is important for gut health.
    If you have issues.......maybe.
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    I have friends that have l-glutamine in their supplement "arsenal" and it always cracks me up. But of course no one ever listens to me, what would I know.

    I wouldn't even take l-gultamine supplements if they were given to me for free, to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Type O Hero View Post
    I have friends that have l-glutamine in their supplement "arsenal" and it always cracks me up. But of course no one ever listens to me, what would I know.

    I wouldn't even take l-gultamine supplements if they were given to me for free, to be honest.
    Nor would I. They are both a waste of calories and carry potential health implications with respect to lipid metabolism.
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    I am a sustamine fan myself...3-5g

    Ill take it both pre and post workout
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    I am a sustamine fan myself...3-5g

    Ill take it both pre and post workout
    ModernBCAA has a nice dose of sustamine :-D
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    I am a sustamine fan myself...3-5g

    Ill take it both pre and post workout
    I've heard a lot of positive anecdote with respect to sustamine. Free form glutamine uptake from the gut is​ one of the issues with the supplement. Any data on sustamine? I think the alanine is of greater interest here since it could promote the lactate-alanine cycle in rapidly exercising muscle tissue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    I've heard a lot of positive anecdote with respect to sustamine. Free form glutamine uptake from the gut is one of the issues with the supplement. Any data on sustamine? I think the alanine is of greater interest here since it could promote the lactate-alanine cycle in rapidly exercising muscle tissue.
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    Google it. There are quite a few studies done with glutamine for things ranging from gut health to burn victims and lots of things in between. I am a believer in supplementing glutamine but I also have Crohn's disease. My gastro doc suggested glutamine for my gut health years ago. If you're in normal health and eat well you probably don't need to supplement it, but it probably won't hurt you if you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SXIPro View Post
    If you have issues.......maybe.
    no maybe, even if you dont have issues, glutamine supplementation can be benificial for gut health, if you care about that sort of thing.

    "Glutamine (400 mg 4 times per day, between meals) is an amino acid found in the body that helps the intestine function properly. While there is no evidence that glutamine helps reduce symptoms of diverticular disease, it may be beneficial for overall intestinal health. Do not take glutamine if you are diabetic or have seizures, liver disease, or a history of mania or manic episodes."

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    Glutamine is the most abundent amino acid in the body. I supplement with it when I cut for competition.

    I am already lower on my cals then normal, I am doing cardio twice as often, I am putting my body through rigorous training and supplying less food. I intake glutamine three times a day in my BCAA and I suplement it post workout post workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I've heard a lot of positive anecdote with respect to sustamine. Free form glutamine uptake from the gut is​ one of the issues with the supplement. Any data on sustamine? I think the alanine is of greater interest here since it could promote the lactate-alanine cycle in rapidly exercising muscle tissue.
    http://www.biomedcentral.com/content...0-2783-9-4.pdf

    http://www.biomedcentral.com/content...0-2783-7-8.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    I am a sustamine fan myself...3-5g

    Ill take it both pre and post workout
    How do you get bulk sustamine? Also what about nag?
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    One of the most frequent supplement questions I get at my office is whether or not athletes should use the amino acid glutamine for either performance enhancement or size gains. The topic comes up so much that it almost seems as though glutamine is a "no brainer" supplement just like creatine. In fact, its popularity is such that at least two separate online message boards, as well as numerous magazines, have feature articles on the use of glutamine as a supplement. The dogma of glutamine supplementation had even permeated the SWIS symposium to the extent that the numerous conversations about this amino acid were solely about how much to take, rather than whether or not to take it. So, it seems as though everything is pretty cut and dried when it comes to glutamine use? or is it? While there was some literature- supported speculation as to the potential benefits of glutamine supplementation, there needs to be an updated review of the literature examining the current status of this purported "wonder supplement." In fact, there's quite a bit of information that's been left out of the popular bodybuilding literature that needs to be brought to light. But before we get on to that, we should review some of the basics of glutamine. Glutamine: The Basics For those of you who are new to the concept of glutamine supplementation, you should know that it's a non-essential amino acid created largely by our muscles. It's also noteworthy that glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid in our bodies, comprising up to 2/3 of the muscle free amino acid pool.(13) This fact, coupled with the idea that muscle is the largest producer of this amino acid, could suggest that supplementation would be beneficial. One potential problem with this is that glutamine is a non-essential amino acid (meaning that we don't have to consume outside sources containing this amino acid because our bodies can make it on its own), but this is where things get interesting: the use of glutamine by many different cells in our bodies is so great that there may be times when its use exceeds its availability, therefore glutamine has been termed a "conditionally essential" amino acid.(18) This means that during times of physical stress the body may actually need glutamine from the diet to maintain proper cellular function. Clearly, activities such as resistance training constitute a physical stress on the body, which is one reason that athletes have been targeted for glutamine supplementation. Another interesting fact about our muscles and glutamine is the issue of transport. For an amino acid to get into or out of our muscles, it has to be transported by specific carriers. Using these carriers, our muscle takes up amino acids according to demand from protein composition (i.e. what our muscles need the most), BUT amino acid release is NOT according to composition. Alanine and glutamine can account for up to 50% of amino acid release from muscle despite accounting for only about 15% of total muscle protein.(31) Obviously, this is a huge discrepancy?which is normally made up for through glutamine production?but as mentioned earlier, during times of physical stress (i.e. exercise), the synthesis of glutamine is hindered. Everyone knows that lacking even one amino acid can hinder muscle growth, which fortifies the theory of glutamine supplementation by athletes. Now that you're familiar with the basics behind glutamine supplementation, it's time to delve into the literature and pull out some more specific theories as to the beneficial effects of glutamine supplementation. Glutamine and Muscle Mass Interest first arose in glutamine as a supplement when it was found that glutamine enrichment elevated levels of protein synthesis in isolated rat muscles.(21) This isn't surprising since it's also been found that muscle protein synthesis levels can be correlated with free glutamine levels.(17) It's also been shown in vitro using rat skeletal muscle cells that glutamine may decrease protein breakdown.(22) Additionally, we know that the anabolic/catabolic state of a muscle cell is related to it's hydration status?this simply means that cellular swelling has an anabolic or an anticatabolic effect on the affected cells (including muscle cells). Based on this, it's been found that glutamine supplementation may mediate cell swelling and therefore an anticatabolic effect through either increasing cell swelling or hindering cellular dehydration.(28) Sure you say, these theories are all well and good in cell cultures or animals, but what about the human studies? Well, studies in humans indicate that glutamine supplementation may improve nitrogen balance in critically ill patients, as well as assist in the prevention of protein synthesis decreases following surgery (a HUGE physical stress) or following a 14-hour fast.(13, 12,24,13) There have even been a couple of studies done on resistance trained subjects (more on that a little later)! Glutamine and Overtraining We've all felt the scourge of overtraining: the lethargy, the sickness, and the lack of desire to train. Aside from the horrible feeling associated with overtraining, we also know that the longer we're out of the gym, the longer we go without any anabolic stimulus to our muscles. Based on this, another theory suggesting glutamine supplementation for athletes involves the prevention of overtraining. Glutamine is used as a fuel source by many cells of our body, including many cells of our immune system. Now if you recall that there are times of stress where the body's production fails to meet its needs for glutamine, you can see that this could negatively affect the immune system. In fact, you may not be surprised to find that blood glutamine levels may be compromised following exercise induced overtraining.(1) Surveys of endurance athletes supplementing with glutamine following a marathon race showed lower rates of infection than those who didn't supplement.(8,9) As for the applicability to bodybuilding, one study showed that resistance exercise may induce a small transient (ie short-term) negative effect on some cells of the immune system, although plasma glutamine levels weren't examined.(6) So now we have theories for glutamine supplementation to increase protein synthesis/inhibit protein breakdown, as well as boost immunity following intense exercise. This sounds great, but we have yet to look at glutamine's potential effect to stimulate glycogen replenishment following exercise. Glutamine infusion has been shown to enhance glycogen stores following cycling exercise twice as much as compared to subjects who infused saline or other amino acids.(27) If this happened after weight training, it could even help with our cellular swelling and have the aforementioned postive effect on protein accretion. Another study supports the use of glutamine for enhancing muscle glycogen. Bowtell et al. found that glutamine supplementation following exercise enhanced glycogen resynthesis in muscle just as well as the ingestion of a glucose polymer.(4) Sadly at this point, many readers have already gone out and bought their kilos of glutamine, and are now reading only to find out how to use the stuff. You may argue, why not? There's plenty of evidence to support the theories presented! This was exactly the thinking when glutamine was introduced to bodybuilders several years ago. In fact, the journal articles reviewed above are the same research papers that can be found time and again, in any outdated article that's trying to sell you on glutamine. But things have recently changed; new studies have been done on animals, and people involved in resistance training, but the results are less than positive. What the Glutamine Salespeople Don't Want You To Know: Glutamine and Protein Synthesis ? The other side of the coin We've seen the theory that glutamine levels in the blood and muscle may decrease during or following exercise, and that this decrease correlates with reduced levels of protein synthesis. Several studies have addressed whether this relationship between glutamine and protein synthesis was a coincidental or a causal (meaning that one caused the other) relationship. The first study compared the abilities of glutamine and the amino acid alanine to stimulate protein synthesis in rats with artificially reduced blood and muscle glutamine levels.(23) As expected, glutamine infusion increased intramuscular glutamine levels, while alanine didn't. Surprisingly, even depleting muscle glutamine levels by 60% had no effect on protein synthesis. What may also surprise you is that restoring blood and muscle glutamine levels to normal had no effect on protein synthesis compared to rats receiving no glutamine treatment! Additionally, even though whole body protein turnover didn't change, alanine stimulated protein synthesis! In support of this contention, researchers studied the effect of glutamine supplementation on septic rats. Sepsis is a severely catabolic condition, during which glutamine levels (and protein synthesis) fall. Again, this study showed that despite increasing muscle glutamine levels to even higher than normal, it had no effect on protein synthesis or the catabolic state of the rats.(11) Cumulatively, these studies show that decreased or increased levels of glutamine in the muscle has no effect on protein synthesis. Another study, performed on people, examined the effect of adding glutamine to an amino acid mixture on muscle protein synthesis .(30) Ultimately, infusion of the original amino acid mixture increased protein synthesis by nearly 50%, but adding glutamine to this mix had no additional effect. This study is particularly relevant because most consumers of glutamine do so following a workout, along with other amino acids (or a whole protein). Finally, Wusteman et al., used a drug to reduce muscle protein synthesis, along with muscle glutamine levels, in rats.(29) Much like the Olde Damink et al. study, restoring muscle glutamine levels to normal had no effect on protein synthesis. This study further supports the concept that blood and muscle glutamine levels have no bearing on protein synthesis and protein turnover. Editor's note: Part 2, which pretty much presents a case for relegating glutamine to the Retired Supplements shelf (except for very specific circumstances) will be posted next week. David J. Barr, CSCS, MSc. Candidate, is a Varsity Strength and Conditioning Coach at the University of Waterloo. He did not say it directly but he presented evidence to back his statement up that supplementing with glutamine is a waste money..
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    Sometimes I wonder if you're just trolling us dude.
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    Because I posted a article on how glutamine is more hype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Because I posted a article on how glutamine is more hype.
    It's not so much the content as it is the wall of text that is:

    a. Rough on the eyes
    b. Plagiarized
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    it's not a staple but for the price...if it helps with doms as it does for most ppl, then thats worth it enough

    all the other benefits would just be a bonus...overall too much hate on glutamine
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Posted article, dont know link to source, long read, waste of time until i get link to source.
    so glutamine isn't going to increase my 1 rep max? im confused
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    i think leucine is a better investment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    carry potential health implications with respect to lipid metabolism.
    Could you elaborate on this please?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    i think leucine is a better investment.
    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/n...500-grams.html
    yeah this is some good stuff

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    I agree on the leucine. I used to use glutamine way back in the day cause it was the thing to do. Never noticed anything from it. Bcaas I could feel better recovery and I also liked purple wrath wich if I remember right was eaas plus a few other things. After reading a a few years back that leucine was responsible for most of the benefits from bcaas I gave it a try. Works great amd stuck with it since.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post

    so glutamine isn't going to increase my 1 rep max? im confused
    I have it in email from like 4 years Ago from the doctor I work with. He sent it to me. I'm giving it to you how I pulled it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    i think leucine is a better investment.
    Thats a no brainer. out of all amino's it's the most important, if you were just going to choose 1.
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    Everyone will pick different amino acids and say one is better than the other. I stand by L-Glutamine as well as the BCAA mix. I even got a bottle of L-Glutamine and BCAA mixed together. I feel I got my monies worth on the amino mix. It definitely helps with recovery. Don't know what I'd do without it. It stays on my shelf.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/232784-rushing-into-my.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush954 View Post
    Everyone will pick different amino acids and say one is better than the other. I stand by L-Glutamine as well as the BCAA mix. I even got a bottle of L-Glutamine and BCAA mixed together. I feel I got my monies worth on the amino mix. It definitely helps with recovery. Don't know what I'd do without it. It stays on my shelf.
    Why not use sustamine instead then? Since we know it Absorbs better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Because I posted a article on how glutamine is more hype.
    No, for your benign neglect of:

    -English (as a language and not a "tongue")
    -Grammar
    -Source Posting/Quoting
    -Science in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    One of the most frequent supplement questions I get at my office is whether or not athletes should use the amino acid glutamine for either performance enhancement or size gains. The topic comes up so much that it almost seems as though glutamine is a "no brainer" supplement just like creatine. In fact, its popularity is such that at least two separate online message boards, as well as numerous magazines, have feature articles on the use of glutamine as a supplement. The dogma of glutamine supplementation had even permeated the SWIS symposium to the extent that the numerous conversations about this amino acid were solely about how much to take, rather than whether or not to take it. So, it seems as though everything is pretty cut and dried when it comes to glutamine use? or is it? While there was some literature- supported speculation as to the potential benefits of glutamine supplementation, there needs to be an updated review of the literature examining the current status of this purported "wonder supplement." In fact, there's quite a bit of information that's been left out of the popular bodybuilding literature that needs to be brought to light. But before we get on to that, we should review some of the basics of glutamine. Glutamine: The Basics For those of you who are new to the concept of glutamine supplementation, you should know that it's a non-essential amino acid created largely by our muscles. It's also noteworthy that glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid in our bodies, comprising up to 2/3 of the muscle free amino acid pool.(13) This fact, coupled with the idea that muscle is the largest producer of this amino acid, could suggest that supplementation would be beneficial. One potential problem with this is that glutamine is a non-essential amino acid (meaning that we don't have to consume outside sources containing this amino acid because our bodies can make it on its own), but this is where things get interesting: the use of glutamine by many different cells in our bodies is so great that there may be times when its use exceeds its availability, therefore glutamine has been termed a "conditionally essential" amino acid.(18) This means that during times of physical stress the body may actually need glutamine from the diet to maintain proper cellular function. Clearly, activities such as resistance training constitute a physical stress on the body, which is one reason that athletes have been targeted for glutamine supplementation. Another interesting fact about our muscles and glutamine is the issue of transport. For an amino acid to get into or out of our muscles, it has to be transported by specific carriers. Using these carriers, our muscle takes up amino acids according to demand from protein composition (i.e. what our muscles need the most), BUT amino acid release is NOT according to composition. Alanine and glutamine can account for up to 50% of amino acid release from muscle despite accounting for only about 15% of total muscle protein.(31) Obviously, this is a huge discrepancy?which is normally made up for through glutamine production?but as mentioned earlier, during times of physical stress (i.e. exercise), the synthesis of glutamine is hindered. Everyone knows that lacking even one amino acid can hinder muscle growth, which fortifies the theory of glutamine supplementation by athletes. Now that you're familiar with the basics behind glutamine supplementation, it's time to delve into the literature and pull out some more specific theories as to the beneficial effects of glutamine supplementation. Glutamine and Muscle Mass Interest first arose in glutamine as a supplement when it was found that glutamine enrichment elevated levels of protein synthesis in isolated rat muscles.(21) This isn't surprising since it's also been found that muscle protein synthesis levels can be correlated with free glutamine levels.(17) It's also been shown in vitro using rat skeletal muscle cells that glutamine may decrease protein breakdown.(22) Additionally, we know that the anabolic/catabolic state of a muscle cell is related to it's hydration status?this simply means that cellular swelling has an anabolic or an anticatabolic effect on the affected cells (including muscle cells). Based on this, it's been found that glutamine supplementation may mediate cell swelling and therefore an anticatabolic effect through either increasing cell swelling or hindering cellular dehydration.(28) Sure you say, these theories are all well and good in cell cultures or animals, but what about the human studies? Well, studies in humans indicate that glutamine supplementation may improve nitrogen balance in critically ill patients, as well as assist in the prevention of protein synthesis decreases following surgery (a HUGE physical stress) or following a 14-hour fast.(13, 12,24,13) There have even been a couple of studies done on resistance trained subjects (more on that a little later)! Glutamine and Overtraining We've all felt the scourge of overtraining: the lethargy, the sickness, and the lack of desire to train. Aside from the horrible feeling associated with overtraining, we also know that the longer we're out of the gym, the longer we go without any anabolic stimulus to our muscles. Based on this, another theory suggesting glutamine supplementation for athletes involves the prevention of overtraining. Glutamine is used as a fuel source by many cells of our body, including many cells of our immune system. Now if you recall that there are times of stress where the body's production fails to meet its needs for glutamine, you can see that this could negatively affect the immune system. In fact, you may not be surprised to find that blood glutamine levels may be compromised following exercise induced overtraining.(1) Surveys of endurance athletes supplementing with glutamine following a marathon race showed lower rates of infection than those who didn't supplement.(8,9) As for the applicability to bodybuilding, one study showed that resistance exercise may induce a small transient (ie short-term) negative effect on some cells of the immune system, although plasma glutamine levels weren't examined.(6) So now we have theories for glutamine supplementation to increase protein synthesis/inhibit protein breakdown, as well as boost immunity following intense exercise. This sounds great, but we have yet to look at glutamine's potential effect to stimulate glycogen replenishment following exercise. Glutamine infusion has been shown to enhance glycogen stores following cycling exercise twice as much as compared to subjects who infused saline or other amino acids.(27) If this happened after weight training, it could even help with our cellular swelling and have the aforementioned postive effect on protein accretion. Another study supports the use of glutamine for enhancing muscle glycogen. Bowtell et al. found that glutamine supplementation following exercise enhanced glycogen resynthesis in muscle just as well as the ingestion of a glucose polymer.(4) Sadly at this point, many readers have already gone out and bought their kilos of glutamine, and are now reading only to find out how to use the stuff. You may argue, why not? There's plenty of evidence to support the theories presented! This was exactly the thinking when glutamine was introduced to bodybuilders several years ago. In fact, the journal articles reviewed above are the same research papers that can be found time and again, in any outdated article that's trying to sell you on glutamine. But things have recently changed; new studies have been done on animals, and people involved in resistance training, but the results are less than positive. What the Glutamine Salespeople Don't Want You To Know: Glutamine and Protein Synthesis ? The other side of the coin We've seen the theory that glutamine levels in the blood and muscle may decrease during or following exercise, and that this decrease correlates with reduced levels of protein synthesis. Several studies have addressed whether this relationship between glutamine and protein synthesis was a coincidental or a causal (meaning that one caused the other) relationship. The first study compared the abilities of glutamine and the amino acid alanine to stimulate protein synthesis in rats with artificially reduced blood and muscle glutamine levels.(23) As expected, glutamine infusion increased intramuscular glutamine levels, while alanine didn't. Surprisingly, even depleting muscle glutamine levels by 60% had no effect on protein synthesis. What may also surprise you is that restoring blood and muscle glutamine levels to normal had no effect on protein synthesis compared to rats receiving no glutamine treatment! Additionally, even though whole body protein turnover didn't change, alanine stimulated protein synthesis! In support of this contention, researchers studied the effect of glutamine supplementation on septic rats. Sepsis is a severely catabolic condition, during which glutamine levels (and protein synthesis) fall. Again, this study showed that despite increasing muscle glutamine levels to even higher than normal, it had no effect on protein synthesis or the catabolic state of the rats.(11) Cumulatively, these studies show that decreased or increased levels of glutamine in the muscle has no effect on protein synthesis. Another study, performed on people, examined the effect of adding glutamine to an amino acid mixture on muscle protein synthesis .(30) Ultimately, infusion of the original amino acid mixture increased protein synthesis by nearly 50%, but adding glutamine to this mix had no additional effect. This study is particularly relevant because most consumers of glutamine do so following a workout, along with other amino acids (or a whole protein). Finally, Wusteman et al., used a drug to reduce muscle protein synthesis, along with muscle glutamine levels, in rats.(29) Much like the Olde Damink et al. study, restoring muscle glutamine levels to normal had no effect on protein synthesis. This study further supports the concept that blood and muscle glutamine levels have no bearing on protein synthesis and protein turnover. Editor's note: Part 2, which pretty much presents a case for relegating glutamine to the Retired Supplements shelf (except for very specific circumstances) will be posted next week. David J. Barr, CSCS, MSc. Candidate, is a Varsity Strength and Conditioning Coach at the University of Waterloo. He did not say it directly but he presented evidence to back his statement up that supplementing with glutamine is a waste money..
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    That's how the iPhone app did if. Sorry.
    Ageforce rep, Lets patch up those mistakes and stop going oral.
    Knowledge is power- The power to do your part and make a difference.
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    The only Glutamine I've tried and liked was N-Acetyl-L-Glutamine from S.A.N.
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    Reading conversations about glutamine is about as fun as reading conversations about creatine. Like school in the summer time...
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    I always wondered if it would help my irritable bowel syndrome. I may have tried it once in 1990. Also would be interested in how it helps with the immune system, or does it. Would it actually help me prevent me from getting sick as often as I do?. It may not help with building muscle, but it is the other benefits that it supposedly has that would be of interest to me.
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    Since eating low carbs though most, if not all of my symptoms have disappeared. It's only during carb ups that I have problems, but I just deal with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Since eating low carbs though most, if not all of my symptoms have disappeared. It's only during carb ups that I have problems, but I just deal with it.

    Do you have IBS or some other bowel problems?
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    I'm an idiot just read BOTH of your posts. Have you looked into peptides at all for your bowel issues? I take glutamine specifically for the benefits it can have on gut health.
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