Jack3d, is it worth the risk?

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    Jack3d, is it worth the risk?


    With the recent bad press, is this pre workout mix really worth it? Or are there better pre workout powders?

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    I personally have used jack3d over the years off and on and have not had any issues dosing it around 1&1/2 scoops pre workout. I think the where people can get into trouble is they try to use this product which was designed for weight training in other venues such as marathon running, high intensity training,... things that put sustained stress on the heart for longer durations than weight training. Lately i've switched to the Jack3d Micro formula and have found that while the stimulation effect is much different (and perhaps lighter), my performance is actually better. If you are still concerned about health issues with Jack3d, I'd encourage you to try out Jack3d Micro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkeykong View Post
    With the recent bad press, is this pre workout mix really worth it? Or are there better pre workout powders?
    Yea I just got Jack3d micro. Its not as strong as original but its still good. I used original Jack3d continuously for quite some time with no problems but I only did one scoop
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkeykong View Post
    With the recent bad press, is this pre workout mix really worth it? Or are there better pre workout powders?
    What are you looking for in your pre-workout?
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    I'm looking for something to give me that extra boost in the gym. Something to give me that extra energy.
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    Honestly there are a lot of great PWO's here that work fantastic at just that. I was a avid and heavy Jack3d user, C4 works similarly. Currently I switched to PNI Prodigy and love it far more than i've ever liked Jack3d or C4.
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    Re: Jack3d, is it worth the risk?


    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    What are you looking for in your pre-workout?
    From the sounds of it, something that won't kill him lol

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    call me biast but formutech's volatile is awesome. the pumps, taste, and extreme focus provide some killer workouts. feel free to ask any questions
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    Re: Jack3d, is it worth the risk?


    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    call me biast but formutech's volatile is awesome. the pumps, taste, and extreme focus provide some killer workouts. feel free to ask any questions
    What's up biased? How have you been man?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post

    What's up biased? How have you been man?

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    oh, you know....
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    Personally I was never a fan of Jack3d. Back in my mainstream preworkout days, I liked MP Assault and Infinite Labs Juggernaut way better. They are still good, but the best one out right now is Prodigy and PES Enhanced will be good too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    call me biast
    i have other names in mind to call you..



    OP - jack3d has been around for a good while, undergoing several small cosmetic changes along the way
    this all boils down to DMAA, and individual metabolism, and individual misuse for these ppl who have had adverse reactions

    realistically tho: how many hundreds of thousands of ppl (even millions) do you think have used jack3d and other DMAA-containing products, and were just fine? the minute % of deaths from this - for whatever reason (mostly operator error imo) - are less (far less) than the % of deaths of ppl traveling on the road

    medical error is the cause of thousands of deaths each yr, but you don't hear about this..

    so, unless you want to start the same kind of thread regarding "is it worth it to drive?" or "is it worth it to seek medical guidance?", i think you should consider the context we are speaking in here

    whatever your decision, best to you

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteCedillo View Post
    I personally have used jack3d over the years off and on and have not had any issues dosing it around 1&1/2 scoops pre workout. I think the where people can get into trouble is they try to use this product which was designed for weight training in other venues such as marathon running, high intensity training,... things that put sustained stress on the heart for longer durations than weight training. Lately i've switched to the Jack3d Micro formula and have found that while the stimulation effect is much different (and perhaps lighter), my performance is actually better. If you are still concerned about health issues with Jack3d, I'd encourage you to try out Jack3d Micro.
    Do you feel a 40 minute VO2 max workout (Kettlebell snatches) falls into this category?
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    Re: Jack3d, is it worth the risk?


    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post

    realistically tho: how many hundreds of thousands of ppl (even millions) do you think have used jack3d and other DMAA-containing products, and were just fine? the minute % of deaths from this - for whatever reason (mostly operator error imo) - are less (far less) than the % of deaths of ppl traveling on the road

    medical error is the cause of thousands of deaths each yr, but you don't hear about this..

    so, unless you want to start the same kind of thread regarding "is it worth it to drive?" or "is it worth it to seek medical guidance?", i think you should consider the context we are speaking in here.
    I see your point but to play devils advocate here, driving and medical advice can hardly be considered analogous to using a pre workout. Like I said, I understand what you're saying but medical interventions and driving are necessities for most, where a preworkout can be chosen accordingly.

    Would I choose a preworkout that has a history of deaths occurring with use, or something that has never been linked to fatalities? Me personally, I'd opt for something that hasn't been involved in the deaths of the users. I operate on risk vs reward and death is a pretty big risk to take for a preworkout supplement; when I can easily opt for an alternative product.

    That's just me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    I see your point but to play devils advocate here, driving and medical advice can hardly be considered analogous to using a pre workout. Like I said, I understand what you're saying but medical interventions and driving are necessities for most, where a preworkout can be chosen accordingly.

    Would I choose a preworkout that has a history of deaths occurring with use, or something that has never been linked to fatalities? Me personally, I'd opt for something that hasn't been involved in the deaths of the users. I operate on risk vs reward and death is a pretty big risk to take for a preworkout supplement; when I can easily opt for an alternative product.

    That's just me.

    - Valdez
    surely i understand your point
    okay then, let's ponder: if you could still get hold of ephedra, for the (anecdotally speaking) all-time BEST fat-loss combo ECA -- would you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkeykong View Post
    With the recent bad press, is this pre workout mix really worth it? Or are there better pre workout powders?
    It's a very popular preworkout. What do you look for in a preworkout?
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    Re: Jack3d, is it worth the risk?


    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    surely i understand your point
    okay then, let's ponder: if you could still get hold of ephedra, for the (anecdotally speaking) all-time BEST fat-loss combo ECA -- would you?

    Tbh I've never even dabbled I like to err on the side of caution. Am I being overly cautious? More than likely but its worked thus far lol. Plus, I've never had to use a "fat burner". I've always had the trouble of gaining and keeping, let alone trying to burn. Sure I've used supplements that potentiate fat loss but never something with the primary MOA of fat loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Tbh I've never even dabbled I like to err on the side of caution. Am I being overly cautious? More than likely but its worked thus far lol. Plus, I've never had to use a "fat burner". I've always had the trouble of gaining and keeping, let alone trying to burn. Sure I've used supplements that potentiate fat loss but never something with the primary MOA of fat loss.

    - Valdez
    i see
    well the point of that exercise, was to infer that ephedra was banned not because of adverse effect on many..rather, the toxic effect on a few who misused the product grossly - classic operator error
    there are MANY ppl today, who would jump at the chance to get their hands on that stuff again - knowing full well that instances of fatality had occurred in past (was trying to trick you into that stance in fact lol)

    i will liken the jack3d fatalities, to this same set of circumstances

    am i fan of jack3d? nope - haven't used in yrs
    but does not mean however, that it is "the devil" of preWO supps by any means at all

    context, is the essence of understanding these things
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    Jack3d is an ultra concentrate it hs a good amount of stims. But if your looking for that burst of energy it has it.

    As for pumps I prefer Volatile Pre workout. It gives insaine pumps and decent energy. Good focus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurnKey View Post

    Do you feel a 40 minute VO2 max workout (Kettlebell snatches) falls into this category?
    I think that's up to the individual to decide. IMO if you are making your heart pump at its max output for a sustained period as such, then I'd opt to use jack3d micro. But that's just my opinion on the matter. I utilize both formulas when I'm not on a stim free cycle. Micro on upper body days and Jack3d on leg days. On cardio days I will use some DMAA OEP but I try to keep my heart rate right around 120. I've done a few VO2 max's in my day. Seen my heart rate hit 218, I wouldn't want any stims in me while doing this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteCedillo View Post
    I personally have used jack3d over the years off and on and have not had any issues dosing it around 1&1/2 scoops pre workout. I think the where people can get into trouble is they try to use this product which was designed for weight training in other venues such as marathon running, high intensity training,... things that put sustained stress on the heart for longer durations than weight training. Lately i've switched to the Jack3d Micro formula and have found that while the stimulation effect is much different (and perhaps lighter), my performance is actually better. If you are still concerned about health issues with Jack3d, I'd encourage you to try out Jack3d Micro.
    I 100% agree. I had an argument with this guy at work who does not believe in supplements and he sent me the article in which some lady in Europe I think recently died after a marathon she was running, and the medical examiner said it was heart failure compounded by DMAA. I told him that Jack3d appears to be made for bodybuilders, NOT marathon runners who run for hours with an elevated heart rate and normally are nutrient deficient AND don't drink enough water. I also think Jack3d is a little strong for women. Even the military guys who died were not working out, but doing exercises that raised their hr for HOURS at a time. This being said, I stopped using Jack3d just in case there is a valid issue with the product. That and the fact that there are FAR better pwo products out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zv3 View Post
    I 100% agree. I had an argument with this guy at work who does not believe in supplements and he sent me the article in which some lady in Europe I think recently died after a marathon she was running, and the medical examiner said it was heart failure compounded by DMAA. I told him that Jack3d appears to be made for bodybuilders, NOT marathon runners who run for hours with an elevated heart rate and normally are nutrient deficient AND don't drink enough water. I also think Jack3d is a little strong for women. Even the military guys who died were not working out, but doing exercises that raised their hr for HOURS at a time.
    first boldened: see that's the thing..you have multiple causes here (and there are more reasons contributing to those reasons..) you cannot unquestionably determine that DMAA had anything to do with being primary cause
    we can sit here and speculate all day..does nobody any good

    second boldened: again - this would be your opinion, not factual, and IMO not even clearly stated by you, on the platform you are espousing
    too strong fro women? really? at what dose? or just period?
    pure speculation, on your part
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    Personally i think Jack3d is one of the worst pwo's out there on the market. There are so many better. Then add on top of that, all the bad press it's been getting. I have no idea why people keep buying it. Guess it's the feeling they get when they take 4-5 scoops and they get the cracked out type of feeling. IDK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    first boldened: see that's the thing..you have multiple causes here (and there are more reasons contributing to those reasons..) you cannot unquestionably determine that DMAA had anything to do with being primary cause
    we can sit here and speculate all day..does nobody any good

    second boldened: again - this would be your opinion, not factual, and IMO not even clearly stated by you, on the platform you are espousing
    too strong fro women? really? at what dose? or just period? pure speculation, on your part
    I agree. I remember reading in a running mag that marathon runners are at a substantialy increased risk of heart attack during and after competition. I would speculate that if DMAA had a role to play in this womans untimely death that it was because it exacerbated a preexisting condition or set of risk factors. I find the deaths of the the two soldiers a bit more alarming as it would seem to rule out any preexisting condition theory. In both cases we do not even know the amount of DMAA consumed which is an important factor. In the case of the two soldiers (God rest their souls) a possible overdose seems more probable. At the end of the day the data does not lie. The number of DMAA consumers VS the number of reported adverse reactions/Deaths convinces me that it is safe if used as directed, at least in the short term. Caffiene can kill if you take to much too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurnKey View Post
    I agree. I remember reading in a running mag that marathon runners are at a substantialy increased risk of heart attack during and after competition. I would speculate that if DMAA had a role to play in this womans untimely death that it was because it exacerbated a preexisting condition or set of risk factors. I find the deaths of the the two soldiers a bit more alarming as it would seem to rule out any preexisting condition theory. In both cases we do not even know the amount of DMAA consumed which is an important factor. In the case of the two soldiers (God rest their souls) a possible overdose seems more probable. At the end of the day the data does not lie. The number of DMAA consumers VS the number of reported adverse reactions/Deaths convinces me that it is safe if used as directed, at least in the short term. Caffiene can kill if you take to much too.
    very nice, well said
    and palpably true..some may know i am not necessarily the biggest fan of DMAA, but i will not sit here and condone nor agree with the witch hunt that mainstream media/government seems to be on
    err on the side of caution, if you will - we all roll with our own opinions
    just don't lay the basis for that decision on uneducated and unfounded "documentation" that you may have "heard about"
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    first boldened: see that's the thing..you have multiple causes here (and there are more reasons contributing to those reasons..) you cannot unquestionably determine that DMAA had anything to do with being primary cause
    we can sit here and speculate all day..does nobody any good

    second boldened: again - this would be your opinion, not factual, and IMO not even clearly stated by you, on the platform you are espousing
    too strong fro women? really? at what dose? or just period?
    pure speculation, on your part
    The medical examiner said her condition was exacerbated by the use of DMAA, not me. DMAA was not said to be the primary cause of her death, but a contributing factor. And sure, my personal speculation is that I personally think Jack3d is too strong for most women, but that's just my opinion. That's not to say women have not taken it without incident, but I am 240-250lbs and Jack3d has a profound effect on me, so I can't imagine a 100lb woman 1/2 my size taking this without issue. If women do use Jack3d, I would think it would be far safer to take it for the gym lifting weights, not running a marathon as I still don't think Jack3d was designed for that. I take separate, cardio supps for my cardio days
    and none of them have massive amounts of stims in them by DESIGN.

    Although I don't think DMAA is the CAUSE for most of these deaths, if it's even a contributing factor to a persons death, as other have said, it's just not worth taking as there are FAR better and safer products out there. I personally think the "hunt for the next great stim high" is overrated and just plain dangerous. Hell, I am trying to get away from taking so much caffeine as I don't think it's great for people to take so much all the time, hence the push for low caffeine/stim free pwo's now. DMAA.... just not worth it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    first boldened: see that's the thing..you have multiple causes here (and there are more reasons contributing to those reasons..) you cannot unquestionably determine that DMAA had anything to do with being primary cause
    we can sit here and speculate all day..does nobody any good

    second boldened: again - this would be your opinion, not factual, and IMO not even clearly stated by you, on the platform you are espousing
    too strong fro women? really? at what dose? or just period?
    pure speculation, on your part
    The medical examiner said her condition was exacerbated by the use of DMAA, not me. DMAA was not said to be the primary cause of her death, but a contributing factor. And sure, my personal speculation is that I personally think Jack3d is too strong for most women, but that's just my opinion. That's not to say women have not taken it without incident, but I am 240-250lbs and Jack3d has a profound effect on me, so I can't imagine a 100lb woman 1/2 my size taking this without issue. If women do use Jack3d, I would think it would be far safer to take it for the gym lifting weights, not running a marathon as I still don't think Jack3d was designed for that. I take separate, cardio supps for my cardio days
    and none of them have massive amounts of stims in them by DESIGN.

    Although I don't think DMAA is the CAUSE for most of these deaths, if it's even a contributing factor to a persons death, as other have said, it's just not worth taking as there are FAR better and safer products out there. I personally think the "hunt for the next great stim high" is overrated and just plain dangerous. Hell, I am trying to get away from taking so much caffeine as I don't think it's great for people to take so much all the time, hence the push for low caffeine/stim free pwo's now. DMAA.... just not worth it.
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    Snip from NY Times
    "Federal officials have received reports of 13 deaths over the last four years that cited the possible involvement of 5-Hour Energy, a highly caffeinated energy shot, according to Food and Drug Administration records and an interview with an agency official."

    Any CNS stimulant is dangerous in great enough quantities. Swallow a whole a bottle of NoDoze and your asking for trouble. Take 6 scoops of Jack3d again asking for trouble. Based on the data I really don't think DMAA is inherently more dangerous than many other OTC stims. You incur a certain level of risk when you put any drug into your body.
  

  
 

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