PWO supp companies, PLEASE stop with the caffeine!

  1. New Member
    zv3's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    207
    Rep Power
    96635
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    67.58%

    PWO supp companies, PLEASE stop with the caffeine!


    I have purchased almost every popular PWO supp under the sun and I can't adjust the dosages I need because of the caffeine content! I am a larger-size guy (240lbs -250lbs) and need more of the ingredients in the pwo but NOT the added caffeine! I am trying to get away from taking so much of the stuff, but the products just have too much caffeine in them and it's VERY hard to get more ingredient WITHOUT taking in more caffeine! I take Condense and to get the ingredients (2 scoops) I need I would have to take in 400mg of caffeine! Some companies appear to have 2 versions of their pwo, one with caffeine and one without. Millennium Tech has Ragnarook, and the new PES pwo appears to have a lower caffeine content than normal.

    I also sometimes take fat-burners (which almost always have caffeine in them) so stacking this with pwo's that have caffeine give me too much of the stuff! I would like some flexibility to increase the dosages but NOT caffeine!! Controlled Labs also has Blue-up caffeine free, which I have. I think we are raising a generation of kids on too much caffeine destroying their adrenal glands at an early age. Caffeine is so cheap that
    we should be allowed to use the dosages we want in the form of caffeine pills if needed. To me, it's almost a cheap way to give a product "energy" when it's just caffeine. Some of the more popular pwo's (I won't name them) are popular because of too much caffeine it appears. When I looked at the ingredients in one of the most popular pwo's, there was NOTHING remarkable in the formula that made it popular, but it just had a TON of caffeine in it!

    Does anyone know if Condense will come in a caffeine-free version? What do you guys use that's caffeine-free?

  2. Board Sponsor
    Adizzle1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,317
    Rep Power
    908455
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    73.26%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Check out PowerMax, with 2 scoops you get a good dose of the major players without the overpowering stimulation. You could go up to 3 scoops and still not get jittery with PowerMax.

    We offer free samples so send an email to info@performaxlabs.com and they will have 2 sample pack(4 scoops) sent out ASAP!!
    Performax Labs Online Company Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    Fitmax: Fat Burning Energizing Pre Workout!
    Alphamax: Advanced Myotropic Complex...Alpha Begins Here
  3. Professional Member
    Mack411's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Age
    26
    Posts
    3,814
    Rep Power
    7275814
    Level
    89
    Lv. Percent
    27.45%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting Pro

    Have you ever tried or looked into stim-free focus xt?
    SERIOUS NUTRITION SOLUTIONS
    mack @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com
    "Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time"
    •   
       

  4. Elite Member
    TheSwanks's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Age
    30
    Posts
    8,903
    Rep Power
    7167051
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    42.54%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Formutech Volatile is really lightly stimmed and I never have any issues with one or two scoops.

    Also, if you know what specific ingredients you want more of (i.e. agmatine, beta alanine, c-o-p, etc...) why dont you grab some bulk tubs of those and just add them to a single scoop of a pre mixed pre workout powder?
    Formutech Nutrition Rep----------------Check out my CONQU3R log!:
    www.formutechnutrition.com------------- http://goo.gl/G8a4Ss
    www.facebook.com/fnutrition
  5. New Member
    BigEdNJ's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  279 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    36
    Posts
    263
    Rep Power
    313059
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    97.34%

    If your looking stim free PWO check out IForce Nutrition Hemavol !!! Crazy pump
  6. Elite Member
    bolt10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    8,715
    Rep Power
    3986144
    Level
    82
    Lv. Percent
    89.59%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    I usually add bulk products to stim pre-workouts if they do not contain the adequate amount of actives in the amounts I take.

    Some of my favorite non-stim forumlas that can be added to pretty much any stim products include Genomyx Protocol and Iforce Hemavol.
    PES Representative
    Don't miss out on the next deal:
    http://pescience.com/insider
    Protein Backed by Science: http://selectprotein.com
  7. Elite Member
    TheSwanks's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Age
    30
    Posts
    8,903
    Rep Power
    7167051
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    42.54%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEdNJ View Post
    If your looking stim free PWO check out IForce Nutrition Hemavol !!! Crazy pump
    Quote Originally Posted by bolt10 View Post
    I usually add bulk products to stim pre-workouts if they do not contain the adequate amount of actives in the amounts I take.

    Some of my favorite non-stim forumlas that can be added to pretty much any stim products include Genomyx Protocol and Iforce Hemavol.
    yeah Hemovol is a really effective stack on top of any stimmed pwo
    Formutech Nutrition Rep----------------Check out my CONQU3R log!:
    www.formutechnutrition.com------------- http://goo.gl/G8a4Ss
    www.facebook.com/fnutrition
  8. Board Sponsor
    USPlabsRep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,613
    Rep Power
    1808799
    Level
    57
    Lv. Percent
    58.33%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by zv3 View Post
    I have purchased almost every popular PWO supp under the sun and I can't adjust the dosages I need because of the caffeine content! I am a larger-size guy (240lbs -250lbs) and need more of the ingredients in the pwo but NOT the added caffeine! I am trying to get away from taking so much of the stuff, but the products just have too much caffeine in them and it's VERY hard to get more ingredient WITHOUT taking in more caffeine! I take Condense and to get the ingredients (2 scoops) I need I would have to take in 400mg of caffeine! Some companies appear to have 2 versions of their pwo, one with caffeine and one without. Millennium Tech has Ragnarook, and the new PES pwo appears to have a lower caffeine content than normal.

    I also sometimes take fat-burners (which almost always have caffeine in them) so stacking this with pwo's that have caffeine give me too much of the stuff! I would like some flexibility to increase the dosages but NOT caffeine!! Controlled Labs also has Blue-up caffeine free, which I have. I think we are raising a generation of kids on too much caffeine destroying their adrenal glands at an early age. Caffeine is so cheap that
    we should be allowed to use the dosages we want in the form of caffeine pills if needed. To me, it's almost a cheap way to give a product "energy" when it's just caffeine. Some of the more popular pwo's (I won't name them) are popular because of too much caffeine it appears. When I looked at the ingredients in one of the most popular pwo's, there was NOTHING remarkable in the formula that made it popular, but it just had a TON of caffeine in it!

    Does anyone know if Condense will come in a caffeine-free version? What do you guys use that's caffeine-free?
    Jack3d Micro has 125mgs caffiene per scoop
  9. Senior Member
    murk01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,229
    Rep Power
    683047
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    36.24%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    dont like stims??? :-\
    Muscle Marinade would prob tune up up. try Hemoval its good.
    GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/231867-man-sports-gameday.html#post4047619
  10. Senior Member
    aceroni's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,684
    Rep Power
    1115247
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    13.33%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by zv3 View Post
    I have purchased almost every popular PWO supp under the sun and I can't adjust the dosages I need because of the caffeine content! I am a larger-size guy (240lbs -250lbs) and need more of the ingredients in the pwo but NOT the added caffeine! I am trying to get away from taking so much of the stuff, but the products just have too much caffeine in them and it's VERY hard to get more ingredient WITHOUT taking in more caffeine! I take Condense and to get the ingredients (2 scoops) I need I would have to take in 400mg of caffeine! Some companies appear to have 2 versions of their pwo, one with caffeine and one without. Millennium Tech has Ragnarook, and the new PES pwo appears to have a lower caffeine content than normal.

    I also sometimes take fat-burners (which almost always have caffeine in them) so stacking this with pwo's that have caffeine give me too much of the stuff! I would like some flexibility to increase the dosages but NOT caffeine!! Controlled Labs also has Blue-up caffeine free, which I have. I think we are raising a generation of kids on too much caffeine destroying their adrenal glands at an early age. Caffeine is so cheap that
    we should be allowed to use the dosages we want in the form of caffeine pills if needed. To me, it's almost a cheap way to give a product "energy" when it's just caffeine. Some of the more popular pwo's (I won't name them) are popular because of too much caffeine it appears. When I looked at the ingredients in one of the most popular pwo's, there was NOTHING remarkable in the formula that made it popular, but it just had a TON of caffeine in it!

    Does anyone know if Condense will come in a caffeine-free version? What do you guys use that's caffeine-free?
    Try caffeine free fastwitch it's a good pre from what I remember
  11. Professional Member
    Geoforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,915
    Rep Power
    1189234
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    47.92%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Yeah, caffeine isn't going anywhere. It's going to be a mainstay in almost every pre-workout released. You do have some stim free or lower stim options already suggested or making your own powder as also suggested. Just realize it's incredibly unlikely that companies are going to start making a lot of caffeine free pre-workout products. It's in about 99% of all pre-workouts.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!
  12. New Member
    zv3's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    207
    Rep Power
    96635
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    67.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Yeah, caffeine isn't going anywhere. It's going to be a mainstay in almost every pre-workout released. You do have some stim free or lower stim options already suggested or making your own powder as also suggested. Just realize it's incredibly unlikely that companies are going to start making a lot of caffeine free pre-workout products. It's in about 99% of all pre-workouts.
    Your probably right, but I do see a shift AWAY from heavily-stimmed products. At least some companies are offering a stim-free alternative, wish Condense would offer stim-free. I actually see some companies advertising their non-stimmed products in a positive light.
    I see a couple caffeine-free products on the Planet, maybe I will take the leap and test a couple.
  13. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,667
    Rep Power
    6777729
    Level
    99
    Lv. Percent
    23.5%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Enhanced seemed to have a low caffeine content with good doses of other actives if the *** label was accurate.

    Stimulant-Free Focus XT is a great option right now, along with iForce Hemavol
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  14. Diamond Member
    thebigt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    29,217
    Rep Power
    10752133
    Level
    120
    Lv. Percent
    49.02%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityPosting VeteranPosting Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by zv3 View Post
    Your probably right, but I do see a shift AWAY from heavily-stimmed products. At least some companies are offering a stim-free alternative, wish Condense would offer stim-free. I actually see some companies advertising their non-stimmed products in a positive light.
    I see a couple caffeine-free products on the Planet, maybe I will take the leap and test a couple.
    unfortunately i agree...supp companies are losing their balls when it comes to strong stims!!!
    IRONCHAMPUSA REP

    use code BIGT35OFF at http://www.ironchampusa.com/112.html
  15. Elite Member
    BPjohn123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    30
    Posts
    6,985
    Rep Power
    7211398
    Level
    91
    Lv. Percent
    29.97%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Enhanced has 125 mg, even if dosing 2 scoops it would only be 250mg.
    PES REPRESENTATIVE
    pescience.com
    http://pescience.com/insider
  16. Diamond Member
    FL3X MAGNUM's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,424
    Rep Power
    4289816
    Level
    86
    Lv. Percent
    82.47%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post
    Enhanced has 125 mg, even if dosing 2 scoops it would only be 250mg.
    Psshh read the title bro
    Genomyx Rep
    www.genomyx.com
  17. Elite Member
    BPjohn123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    30
    Posts
    6,985
    Rep Power
    7211398
    Level
    91
    Lv. Percent
    29.97%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM

    Psshh read the title bro
    Read the thread bro
    PES REPRESENTATIVE
    pescience.com
    http://pescience.com/insider
  18. Diamond Member
    FL3X MAGNUM's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,424
    Rep Power
    4289816
    Level
    86
    Lv. Percent
    82.47%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post

    Read the thread bro
    No.
    Genomyx Rep
    www.genomyx.com
  19. Elite Member
    BPjohn123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    30
    Posts
    6,985
    Rep Power
    7211398
    Level
    91
    Lv. Percent
    29.97%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM

    No.
    Lol
    PES REPRESENTATIVE
    pescience.com
    http://pescience.com/insider
  20. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,667
    Rep Power
    6777729
    Level
    99
    Lv. Percent
    23.5%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post
    Enhanced has 125 mg, even if dosing 2 scoops it would only be 250mg.
    This is IMO the perfect range for me. The naive caffeine user has a yerkes dodson curve peaking at around 100mg for weightlifting, so they can go with 1 scoop, whereas us more experienced users can benefit from 2 scoops.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  21. Senior Member
    alwaysfirst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,034
    Rep Power
    219125
    Level
    31
    Lv. Percent
    7.63%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    That's how I feel also, I don't like to go much over 100mg caffein when I workout. I would also like to have a bigger "selection" of no stim pre workouts!
  22. New Member
    Darkhorse192's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    14
    Rep Power
    32
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    73.02%

    I have heard some good feedback about Bodyforge by Neogenix for a non stim non caffeine pwo a friend had to lose caffeine because of oddly enough he had a chronic white noise ringing in his ears that went away when he dropped the caffeine. He uses this a loves it.
  23. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,709
    Rep Power
    5317490
    Level
    84
    Lv. Percent
    98.86%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    As said before, caffeine is here to stay; and it has more benefits than just an increase in energy (counteracts Adenosine for example) but there are stim-free alternatives dependant on what you want out of your PWO. Caffeine free focus XT is my go-to before a study session (if your after that kind of focus; in the gym it really keeps your mind on what you want to achieve etc) or Hemavol (for pumps etc.). Plenty of good options for whatever your after
  24. Professional Member
    Geoforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,915
    Rep Power
    1189234
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    47.92%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by zv3 View Post
    Your probably right, but I do see a shift AWAY from heavily-stimmed products. At least some companies are offering a stim-free alternative, wish Condense would offer stim-free. I actually see some companies advertising their non-stimmed products in a positive light.
    I see a couple caffeine-free products on the Planet, maybe I will take the leap and test a couple.
    As well you should. We don't need these massive amounts of stims in pre-workouts that so many companies seem to be fond of. Number one I don't think it's that healthy for users and number 2 I don't think it's that beneficial. Note that I'm talking about the companies that underdose many different ingredients but mega dose that one.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!
  25. Diamond Member
    thebigt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    29,217
    Rep Power
    10752133
    Level
    120
    Lv. Percent
    49.02%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityPosting VeteranPosting Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    As well you should. We don't need these massive amounts of stims in pre-workouts that so many companies seem to be fond of. Number one I don't think it's that healthy for users and number 2 I don't think it's that beneficial. Note that I'm talking about the companies that underdose many different ingredients but mega dose that one.
    there are 2 reasons for that:
    1. you can feel it working almost immediately...almost every review i have read rates the stim effect.
    2. it sells...go to a gas station and see how many energy [caffeine] products are available. why? because many people want them and buy them!!!

    i agree their should be stim free options...but anyone who thinks that supps today are heavy on stims hasn't been around supps very long, imo. 4-5 years ago the stim formulas in supps would make todays stim formulas look like kool aid.
    IRONCHAMPUSA REP

    use code BIGT35OFF at http://www.ironchampusa.com/112.html
  26. Professional Member
    Geoforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,915
    Rep Power
    1189234
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    47.92%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    there are 2 reasons for that:
    1. you can feel it working almost immediately...almost every review i have read rates the stim effect.
    2. it sells...go to a gas station and see how many energy [caffeine] products are available. why? because many people want them and buy them!!!

    i agree their should be stim free options...but anyone who thinks that supps today are heavy on stims hasn't been around supps very long, imo. 4-5 years ago the stim formulas in supps would make todays stim formulas look like kool aid.
    Agreed. My main point was that "stopping" with the caffeine isn't going to happen. Now some companies might offer stim free versions and some companies might start making ones with less caffeine. But the idea that they will stop just isn't going to happen. There is a reason it is in 99% of pre-workouts after all.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!
  27. Diamond Member
    thebigt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    29,217
    Rep Power
    10752133
    Level
    120
    Lv. Percent
    49.02%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityPosting VeteranPosting Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Agreed. My main point was that "stopping" with the caffeine isn't going to happen. Now some companies might offer stim free versions and some companies might start making ones with less caffeine. But the idea that they will stop just isn't going to happen. There is a reason it is in 99% of pre-workouts after all.
    no arguement from me...i like the idea of stim free formulas being available for those that want them....my wish is that if they Are going to put stims in they go big, lol...at least let us who love big stim effects to have that option also!!!!
    IRONCHAMPUSA REP

    use code BIGT35OFF at http://www.ironchampusa.com/112.html
  28. Senior Member
    AdelV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,950
    Rep Power
    45196
    Level
    33
    Lv. Percent
    67.57%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Id like to see more stim free products!
  29. New Member
    Darkhorse192's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    14
    Rep Power
    32
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    73.02%

    CORE is about to release a pre-workout and I know Doug is making a stim and stim free version, and I agree its nice to see companies *starting* to go that route. Or you could do half and half serving if you want a lighter day.
  30. Diamond Member
    thebigt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    29,217
    Rep Power
    10752133
    Level
    120
    Lv. Percent
    49.02%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityPosting VeteranPosting Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    Id like to see more stim free products!
    indeed..and there should be, imo.


    but remember, if this thread were promising a new revolutionary stim product that had ephedra like effects, it would be 70 pages by now!!!
    IRONCHAMPUSA REP

    use code BIGT35OFF at http://www.ironchampusa.com/112.html
  31. Senior Member
    PuZo's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  188 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,438
    Rep Power
    412207
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    45.66%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    iForce Hemavol + SNS Focus XT gives you the awesome pumps and focus!
    iForce Nutrition Representative
    iTrain. iCompete. iDominate…iForce!
    www.iforcenutrition.com
  32. New Member
    SXIPro's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    475
    Rep Power
    92141
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    91.21%

    The 'stim' in all these products are what sells them. People feel the effect of a stimulant and the placebo effect takes over. "Oh, feel that buzz, I'm gonna have a great work out now" It's total BS, but it makes the Supp Companies millions of dollars.

    When in reality caffeine and other stims do nothing to make you stronger, quite the opposite in fact, especially over the long run.
  33. New Member
    zv3's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    207
    Rep Power
    96635
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    67.58%

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    As well you should. We don't need these massive amounts of stims in pre-workouts that so many companies seem to be fond of. Number one I don't think it's that healthy for users and number 2 I don't think it's that beneficial. Note that I'm talking about the companies that underdose many different ingredients but mega dose that one.
    That's my problem, to me it's almost a form of "cheating" to use so much caffeine but not to adequately dose the other ingredients. 100 -200mg of caffeine is good enough for me. People are getting "hooked" on so much caffeine and they are judging how good the pwo products are based on the "stim" feeling, which is just cheap caffeine! I use fat-burners which have caffeine in them, so it's hard to use a pwo and fat-burners together because of the possibility of using too much caffeine. Plus doesn't using too much caffeine burn-out your adrenal glands?

    I like the PES Enhanced approach, they use just enough caffeine so that even at 2 scoops (which I always need for most products) I wont be running on pure caffeine! To me, the higher-quality pwo's use lower dosage caffeine, or none at all. I've had some bad caffeine withdrawal taking to much, and I do some sort of exercise 6 days a week so that is a lot of caffeine! Hemoval is great, so is Ragnoorak from MT. I am still working on what dose works for me using the Focus XT I have. One scoop does not seem to be enough at this time to get me going.

    If Condense would come out with a caffeine-free version I would be all over that!!
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. PLEASE stop with the WHINING
    By TWC in forum Supplement Logs
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 11-09-2009, 11:59 AM
  2. Replies: 91
    Last Post: 11-07-2009, 10:37 AM
  3. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 10-30-2009, 07:01 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-12-2008, 07:33 PM
  5. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-22-2007, 12:02 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in