- 12-10-2004, 06:56 PM
- 12-10-2004, 07:45 PM
Yes it works well, I would say atleast 550mg but 1g-1100 is optimal.
- 12-10-2004, 08:47 PM
Should it be taken all 4 weeks at this level? Or should it taken as tamoxifen?
12-10-2004, 09:05 PM
I'd start it probably about a week before PCT at 550mg then first day of PCT I would bump it up to 1100mg and keep it there for two weeks. Then drop it back down to 550mg for another week.
12-10-2004, 09:40 PM
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but please still use SERM. PS reduces cortisol but doesn't combat estrogen as a SERM can do to my knowledge.
12-10-2004, 10:01 PM
My post should have read " Or should it be taken the same as Tamoxifen?".
Sorry if the typo caused any confusion!
12-10-2004, 10:34 PM
LOL I know what ya meant Since your looking into cortisol suppression you may want to check out Lean Xtreme by Designer Supps. It's a fairly new compound which is supposed to be better then PS and 7oxo plus it has added benefits. I usually use PS in my cycles and PCT but I am testing this new Lean Xtreme transdermal for sledge. He has it available in caps right now. Check it out.Originally Posted by EEmain
12-11-2004, 08:39 AM
i would try lean extreme before trying PS as its cheaper..i got good results from NOW's ps product but was taking 10 pills a day..lean extreme according to what i read is cheaper and should be better
12-11-2004, 12:09 PM
The biggest constraint facing PS is the cost. "Effective" dosages tend to be costly. So is Phosphatidylserine (PS) worth the money?. Following info presents 2 sides. Some info suggest that soy based PS is not effective in humans. The PS studies that have shown PS to be effective in humans was PS made from cow brains. However, PS is no longer animal based.
Here is some info:
"Phosphatidylserine, or PS for short, is a member of a class of chemical compounds known as phospholipids. PS is an essential component in all our cells; specifically, it is a major component of the cell membrane. The cell membrane is a kind of "skin" that surrounds living cells. Besides keeping cells intact, this membrane performs vital functions such as moving nutrients into cells and pumping waste products out of them. PS plays an important role in many of these functions.
Good evidence suggests that PS can help declining mental function and depression in the elderly, and it is widely used for this purpose in Italy, Scandinavia, and other parts of Europe. PS has also been marketed as a "brain booster" for people of all ages, said to sharpen memory and increase thinking ability. However, the evidence to support this use is contradictory.
Recently, PS has been marketed as a sports supplement, said to help bodybuilders and power athletes develop larger and stronger muscles.
Note: There is one major caveat to keep in mind regarding studies of PS. Virtually all such studies used animal-source PS, a product that is no longer available. Currently available PS products are made from plant products and might not function identically (see Sources below).
Your body makes all the PS it needs. However, the only way to get a therapeutic dosage of PS is to take a supplement.
PS was originally manufactured from the brains of cows, and all the studies described here used this form. However, because animal brain cells can harbor viruses, that form is no longer available. Most PS today is made from soybeans or other plant sources.
There are reasons to expect that plant-source PS should function very similarly to PS made from cows' brains, and some animal studies suggest that it is indeed effective.15,43,45 However, in preliminary human trials, soy-based PS and cabbage-based PS failed to prove beneficial.7,46 The bottom line: at present, we do not know whether modern plant-source PS is actually effective."
Studies against PS:
7. Gindin J, et al. The effect of plant phosphatidylserine on age-associated memory impairment and mood in the functioning elderly. Rehovot, Israel. Geriatric Institute for Education and Research and Dept. of Geriatrics, Kaplan Hospital, 1995.
46. Sakai M, Yamatoya H, Kudo S. Pharmacological effects of phosphatidylserine enzymatically synthesized from soybean lecithin on brain functions in rodents. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo) 1996;42:47�54.
"Weak evidence suggests that PS might decrease the release of the hormone cortisol after intense exercise.34 Among its many effects, cortisol acts to break down muscle tissue exactly the opposite of the effect desired by a strength athlete or bodybuilder. This double-blind, placebo-controlled study on 11 intensely trained athletes found that 800 mg of PS taken daily reduced the cortisol rise by 20% as compared with placebo.35 Another small study on 9 nonathletic males found that daily doses of 400 and 800 mg of PS reduced cortisol levels after exercise by 16% and 30%, respectively.36 Another study found that phosphatidylserine could relieve some overtraining symptoms, including muscle soreness, possibly due to effects on cortisol.37,39"
35. Fahey TD, Pearl M. Hormonal effects of phosphatidylserine during 2 weeks of intense training. Abstract presented at: National Meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine;June, 1998; Orlando, Fla
36. Monteleone P, Maj M, Beinat L, et al. Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1992;42:385-388.
37. Monteleone P, Maj M, Beinat L, et al. Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1992;42:385-388.
38. Fahey TD, Pearl M. The hormonal and perceptive effects of phosphatidylserine administration during two weeks of resistive exercise-induced overtraining. Biol Sport. 1998;15:135-144.
39. Monteleone P, Beinat L, Tanzillo C, et al. Effects of phosphatidylserine on the neuroendocrine response to physical stress in humans. Neuroendocrinology. 1990;52:243-248.
12-11-2004, 12:29 PM
I've ran two PCT's thus far using PS and they've been my best ever. Whether the PS helped or not is hard to say. Bust like I said once I incorporated it I had a lot of success so you do the math.
As for the Lean Xtreme, I have high hopes for it and won't begin to use my beta transderaml till the end of this month going into next year when my PCT will begin. I believe a good dose for lean extreme (7OH) is about 200mg.
12-11-2004, 12:53 PM
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does he have the "painless oral" 7-oh out yet? that could be really interesting.
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